• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Judge refuses to drop charges in Manning case

T

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,311
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
A military judge has denied a motion to drop some of the charges against WikiLeaks suspect Private Bradley Manning, and said his trial would is likely to be delayed until November.The judge, Denise Lind, on Friday rejected defence motions to dismiss 10 of 22 charges against Manning for allegedly spilling a trove of US intelligence secrets to WikiLeaks, the whistle-blowing website.
The judge rejected the claim that eight charges of unauthorised possession and disclosure of classified information were "unconstitutionally vague," noting that the Supreme Court had rejected similar claims and had concluded there was no uncertainty in the law. "The court finds there's no uncertainty in the statute," she said.
On the third and final day of preliminary hearings, Lind also denied the defence's bid to drop two additional charges that Manning exceeded his authorisation to use the US Defence Department intranet.
She did, though, ask the government to provide more details on the charges.

Manning could spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted of aiding the enemy by handing hundreds of thousands of classified documents, including military logs from Iraq and Afghanistan, and sensitive diplomatic cables, to WikiLeaks. He has not yet entered a plea.

During his eight months of solitary confinement at Quantico, Manning was subjected to "cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment," according to a UN special rapporteur.

​
Click to expand...

Read more @: Judge refuses to drop charges in Manning case - Americas - Al Jazeera English

This information is vital to democracy. Secrecy is not good for democracy, its not good for the voters decisions. Will we punish all Whistleblowers now?

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?
​
 
He didn't "aid the enemy". He held the US government accountable to its people. Are the citizens of the United States now "the enemy"?
 
Paschendale said:
He didn't "aid the enemy". He held the US government accountable to its people. Are the citizens of the United States now "the enemy"?
Click to expand...

With the Patriot Act and Kill Lists apparently we are. They must be scared of us?
 
Once he choose to wear the uniform, and voluntarily no less, he gave up all right to any whistleblower status. Now, if he had gone civilian first, he might have qualified for whistleblower - if it weren't for the classification agreements he signed and swore to.
 
Paschendale said:
He didn't "aid the enemy". He held the US government accountable to its people. Are the citizens of the United States now "the enemy"?
Click to expand...
He also violated an agreement mandating that classified information such as these documents never be released to foreign and outside sources as a prerequisite for accessing such information. We can argue about the merit of his intentions, but that doesn't change the fact that he allegedly violated military law.
 
Good. Hope he gets to spend the rest of his life turning big rocks into little rocks.
 
Fishstyx said:
Good. Hope he gets to spend the rest of his life turning big rocks into little rocks.
Click to expand...

For doing what?
Who did he put in danger?
What did he put in danger?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
For doing what?
Who did he put in danger?
What did he put in danger?
Click to expand...

Look at the list of charges. The only thing that could potentially be debated is the "Aiding the Enemy" charge which from what I know, is valid. The bulk of them fall under UCMJ Article 92-Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation.

He put plenty of people and the nation in danger.

1. Still waiting for someone to show proof (not allegations, not accusation) of real crimes he revealed.
2. Some of the things he released can and likely are used as major recruitment by those who want to kill the US Forces in theater. Whether you agree with them being there or not, they're there. The Apache video is perfect example. There is no crime there but can be used to stoke anger. Classifying stuff like this is not new, its was done during just about every war for the last 100 years. Why, because it aids, in the form of propaganda, the enemy.
3. He weakened diplomacy severely. Funny, the most damage he did was to the instrument of peace! Diplomacy is a high stakes poker game. You don't want your opponent (includes allies as you're trying for a resolution that is most beneficial to you) knowing your cards. He showed our cards.

My biggest problem with the Manning E-Minions is they put him up on pedestal as some hero whistleblower. HE'S NOT! The reason...he was indiscriminate in his release. He downloaded a bunch of info he had access to and just released it. If it had been one or two pieces of info, I'd say he's wading in whistle blower waters. But he just dumped the whole lot.

Lastly, there are ways to handle something like this if he sees and perceives it to be illegal. Pretty simple, use your internal structure in the Army (there are oodles of routes he could have taken), if that fails, your elected representatives.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Judge refuses to drop charges in Manning case - Americas - Al Jazeera English

This information is vital to democracy. Secrecy is not good for democracy, its not good for the voters decisions. Will we punish all Whistleblowers now?

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
Click to expand...

I fully agree that the government should not keep secrets from The People. Unless those secrets involve military tactics and equipment.

BUT...

What Manning did was wrong pure and simple. He did betray our country and is a traitor. String em up.
 
Paschendale said:
He didn't "aid the enemy". He held the US government accountable to its people. Are the citizens of the United States now "the enemy"?
Click to expand...

He did in that the enemy now has access to those files. Hell, the whole WORLD does.
 
clownboy said:
Once he choose to wear the uniform, and voluntarily no less, he gave up all right to any whistleblower status. Now, if he had gone civilian first, he might have qualified for whistleblower - if it weren't for the classification agreements he signed and swore to.
Click to expand...

Wrong. You can be a whistleblower and still be in the military. However, just like in the civilian world, you have to follow a certain set of procedures. Just giving out secret documents is not part of that procedure and is a crime, as it should be.
 
Good!

TheDemSocialist said:
This information is vital to democracy. Secrecy is not good for democracy, its not good for the voters decisions. Will we punish all Whistleblowers now?
Click to expand...
No, the information he released was not vital to democracy.
And he is not a whistle blower.

And secrecy is just fine and compatible with a Democracy and with what we have, a Republic.
 
Last edited:
Manning gets no sympathy from me. He didn't selectively release information to "inform the world" about incidents he believed were wrong; he didn't even bother to inform his upper command of incidents he believed were wrong. What he did was deliberately and surreptitiously download the entire contents of a hard drive without having a clue what information was on that drive, and he released it into the world without giving a damn about repurcussions.

He's a traitor, pure and simple. I hope he never sees another day of freedom.
 
Honor, loyalty, commitment and keeping one's word are obviously traits that run counter to socialist beliefs. All the more reason for Americans to totally reject socialism and those who embrace it.

Posts 1-4 demonstrate this.
 
Last edited:
Grim17 said:
Honor, loyalty, commitment and keeping one's word are obviously traits that run counter to socialist beliefs. All the more reason for Americans to totally reject socialism and those who embrace it.

Posts 1-4 demonstrate this.
Click to expand...

:doh
Grim you have to be fist ****ing me.
 
Excon said:
No, the information he released was not vital to democracy.
And he is not a whistle blower.
Click to expand...
Revealing crimes, and various other cables on how our government conducts business is vital to democracy.

And secrecy is just fine and compatible with a Democracy and with what we have, a Republic.
Click to expand...
A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.
 
When he is found guilty the military should make an example of this traitor. He is charged with knowingly aiding al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula by causing the online publication of hundreds of thousands of classified State Department diplomatic cables and Iraq and Afghanistan war logs, along with some battlefield video clips. He is also charged with eight counts of unauthorized possession and disclosure of classified information relating to the national defense and to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation.

Here is a Charge Sheet I found but other charges have also been filed against this POS traitor.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2010/07/manning070510.pdf

If fouund guilty Pvt Manning could face a death sentence accoring to UCMJ Article 106a. Lets hope that this ****ing weasel is in fact executed.
 
Last edited:
TheDemSocialist said:
Revealing crimes, and various other cables on how our government conducts business is vital to democracy.


A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.
Click to expand...

You may think so but the military believes that what Manning did is a crime. The worst type of crime. Espionage and treason are acts that you believe are vital to democracy? Your thought process is extremely twisted.
 
Last edited:
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Judge refuses to drop charges in Manning case - Americas - Al Jazeera English

This information is vital to democracy. Secrecy is not good for democracy, its not good for the voters decisions. Will we punish all Whistleblowers now?

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
Click to expand...


Manning knew what he was doing was wrong. He was in the military, so he can't plead ignorance.

Ya plays the game; ya pays the price.

They say Kansas is nice this time of year.
 
Manning is a coward and acting horribly. I hope they throw the book at him and that he spends the rest of his life in prison. He is no hero, he is scum.
 
Free Bradley Manning!
 
SgtRock said:
You may think so but the military believes that what Manning did is a crime. The worst type of crime. Espionage and treason are acts that you believe are vital to democracy? Your thought process is extremely twisted.
Click to expand...

Really what part of this is treasonous? Releasing various information about crimes? And how our government conducts business with other countries? Really sounds like he did some damaging acts there.... Didnt know that was treasonous. You know releasing information to the people. You know "we the people"?

Who knows maybe im just a "twisted information" because i think having a open government is a good thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom