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Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, negativ

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

johnny_rebson said:
Karl said:
johnny_rebson said:
The record job growth is in China. That record job growth could be in the US if the environmental whack jobs would let us eliminate all the stupid rules which restrict business.
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Could you enumerate some of those rules for us?
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Just listen to Rush. Once every two or three weeks he lists laws supported by the environmental whackos that push job creation to China.
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Folks, I think he's serious :lamo
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Now you're making up more numbers. about 50% is due to baby boomers, according to the study I posted. Who knows where you got 80% from, but likely the same place where you dreamed that numbers expected in two years from now can be used to alter the unemployment rate today.

:lamo:lamo:lamo
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ROFLMAO ... I went to the numbers in your study. You apparently assumed something in a quote of it referenced something that it did not. Maybe you made it up. I don't know. Its not in your study is what I do know.

Here is what your study said. I'll type large for you, as I realize there are issues there.

The impact on retiring baby boomers on the LFPR from 2004, through 2014, is a reduction of the rate by 0.4%. It has actually gone down by about 2.4% already, and we are not even yet to 2014. That's about 17%. Not 50%.

You are correct though. Some posters are low-hanging fruit. Just not the ones they think ;)
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Grant said:
Debt has nothing to do with jobs? People are reluctant to invest because of the massive debt and the insecurity it brings. All you need do is look at Greece, Spain, or any third world countries. Of course debt is closely tied to the economy and the lack of jobs. That should be common knowledge, and probably is.

Piling up unpayable debt is "Progressive"? Creating unsustainable entitlements is "Progressive"?

In the 1950's the birth rate was higher and 'entitlements' may have made some sense had these rates continued. Of course they have not but "Progressives" continue to spend money and create 'entitlements' as though it is still the 1950's. They are well behind the times, and 'regressives' would be a more apt term.
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Debt and anemic job growth don't necessarily go hand and hand, a quick glance at Reagan's tenure should tell you that.

Entitlement spending and accumulation of debt is hardly exclusive to liberals. On a side note, what new entitlements are you speaking of?
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:
No matter how you manipulate the numbers the private sector is not "doing just fine". There is another number too, the unemployment number which has gone up since obama took office as he and you claim more people are working.

The numbers reported here, based on Bureau of Labor Statistics All jobs lost from the time Obama took office to "trough" (bottom of recession): .....4,317,000
All jobs gained since "trough": ....3,577,000
Net LOSS in seasonally-adjusted jobs since Obama took office: .... 740,000 numbers, are "net" numbers; that is, the number of jobs gained after the number of jobs lost is subtracted, or the number of jobs lost after the number of jobs gained is added. [...]
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Well, that's an incredibly stupid calculation since the boat was sinking when Obama took office. You don't really expect anyone to take that seriously, do you?

It's kinda like setting the house on fire when you move out, then blaming the next occupant for the damage because it takes him a while to extinguish the flames. Like, duh.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Debt and anemic job growth don't necessarily go hand and hand, a quick glance at Reagan's tenure should tell you that.
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The United states is in serious debt and the "progressives" debate the past rather than the future. The stock market responded to what happened in Wisconsin with the hope that this trend will continue in November. That is the only hope America has right now.

Entitlement spending and accumulation of debt is hardly exclusive to liberals. On a side note, what new entitlements are you speaking of?
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No, it is not exclusive to liberals. George Bush also enacted an entitlement act through prescription drugs, a huge error. But perhaps the greatest entitlement blunder since LBJ's "Great Society" is the threat of Obamacare.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Karl said:
Well, that's an incredibly stupid calculation since the boat was sinking when Obama took office. You don't really expect anyone to take that seriously, do you?

It's kinda like setting the house on fire when you move out, then blaming the next occupant for the damage because it takes him a while to extinguish the flames. Like, duh.
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Obama volunteered. And all he has managed is more holes in the boat.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Grant said:
The United states is in serious debt and the "progressives" debate the past rather than the future. The stock market responded to what happened in Wisconsin with the hope that this trend will continue in November. That is the only hope America has right now.
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Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.
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The stock market went into a serious and unrealistic panic based swoon for a few months at which time many investors made money when it inevitably came back to reality. This is the point BHO supporters like to look to when making the claim that this president had something to with healing or helping the economy. But of course it was realized that many stocks were seriously under priced but this had more to do with the beliefs in these companies than anything Barry Obama said or did. Do you have any idea what he did to improve the stock market?

You really don't. It is just thrown out there in the hope that someone may actually believe Obama had some magic formula that caused the stock market to rise. You obviously know nothing about the investment market at all.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.
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The DOW is propped up artificially right now due to bailouts, corporate austerity measures, and Fed meddling.

Ask the Euro Zone how debt is effecting them right now.


j-mac
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Grant said:
The stock market went into a serious and unrealistic panic based swoon for a few months at which time many investors made money when it inevitably came back to reality. This is the point BHO supporters like to look to when making the claim that this president had something to with healing or helping the economy. But of course it was realized that many stocks were seriously under priced but this had more to do with the beliefs in these companies than anything Barry Obama said or did. Do you have any idea what he did to improve the stock market?

You really don't. It is just thrown out there in the hope that someone may actually believe Obama had some magic formula that caused the stock market to rise. You obviously know nothing about the investment market at all.
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His policies have zero correlation to the DOW's success, you implied earlier that debt is somehow discouraging investment, and pointed to walker's win and the corresponding jump in stock prices as proof of such phenomenon. To make the connection between increasing deficits and a lack of investment and growth in general, you would be forced to ignore multiple historical time periods that emphatically refute this belief.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

j-mac said:
The DOW is propped up artificially right now due to bailouts, corporate austerity measures, and Fed meddling.

Ask the Euro Zone how debt is effecting them right now.


j-mac
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Some specific examples would be preferable.

The Euro Zone situation is not directly comparable to ours.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Some specific examples would be preferable.

The Euro Zone situation is not directly comparable to ours.
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No. But things are so bad in Europe, money is coming here that would otherwise not. Our only current saving grace, when we suck like we do, is that Europe sucks worse.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Eighty Deuce said:
No. But things are so bad in Europe, money is coming here that would otherwise not. Our only current saving grace, when we suck like we do, is that Europe sucks worse.
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Somehow I don't buy into the theory that the Euro collapsing is a positive factor going forward for our situation. If you think of Europe in terms of being a large consumer, further worsening of their financial woes will only further complicate and elongate our own.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Debt and anemic job growth don't necessarily go hand and hand, a quick glance at Reagan's tenure should tell you that.
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Debt on the scale we now have (over 100% of GDP) is a NEW thing. Federal "budgets" now include deficits of 40%. Every dollar that the gov't spends comes from the "private economy". Every dollar that the gov't borrows must be repaid, with interest, by taxation of the "private economy". The rich did not get that way by being stupid, they see that the gov't printing money is causing inflation, even if the gov't "recomputes" the CPI to show a far lower inflation rate than reality. The businessman knows that taxation MUST increase in the future, simply to repay the massive gov't debt, those extra taxes will be levied on them directly, or on their customer base limitting their future purchasing power, so they see no reason for "better times ahead" until the gov't is able to stabalize and live within its means.

Hare said:
Entitlement spending and accumulation of debt is hardly exclusive to liberals. On a side note, what new entitlements are you speaking of?
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Welfare spending is going up, SS/Medicare retirement benefit costs are going up (and its revenue is now "temporarily" being cut), more people are getting UI benefits and food stamps and there is, of course, the elephant in the room of ObamaCare to drive the cost of employee health benefits WAY up. Unfunded mandates look neat to the DC morons, but have REAL costs for the private economy that must do the paying. Is it "free" to add 1/3 more years to each dependent's coverage period on a family health plan? Is it "free" to deny insurance companies the right to refuse or charge much higher premiums on a "new" policy given to a very sick (or even dying) person? What may seem free or "off budget" to the CBO, as it applies to gov't costs, does not fool the businessman that must account for that REAL extra cost. Money required to be spent on "new" medical insurance (or gov't fines) may be a great thing for the medical industry (and gov't) but VERY bad for all other industries as those dollars will no longer be available to the public to be spent on other things instead. To expand business and hire more workers, in very shakey economic times, is not very wise, thus many businesses are stuck in the "wait and see mode".
 
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Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
Somehow I don't buy into the theory that the Euro collapsing is a positive factor going forward for our situation. If you think of Europe in terms of being a large consumer, further worsening of their financial woes will only further complicate and elongate our own.
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Trust me. I do not think it positve either. However, the world is begging for a place to put its money, not because the depository is the lesser of evils, but rather because they have their crap together.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
His policies have zero correlation to the DOW's success, you implied earlier that debt is somehow discouraging investment, and pointed to walker's win and the corresponding jump in stock prices as proof of such phenomenon.
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Yes, I did and there is a connection. But it should be obvious that there is more to the US economy than just the stock market. When businesses start hiring and people start buying then we know that there is a possible turnaround. That was just a signal and, as I mentioned, a hope.

To make the connection between increasing deficits and a lack of investment and growth in general, you would be forced to ignore multiple historical time periods that emphatically refute this belief.
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It would be difficult to find a historical correlation because no country has ever been $16 trillion in debt before, with added debts payable to a longer living baby boom generation who will be collecting money from the government rather than paying into it. If you can find a historical equivalence to this mess, then lets hear it.
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Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Eighty Deuce said:
Trust me. I do not think it positve either. However, the world is begging for a place to put its money, not because the depository is the lesser of evils, but rather because they have their crap together.
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Absolutely. And if the American people can demonstrate that they are serious about getting their financial house in order than the US will draw money like a magnet. In fact all of North America, and Mexico and Central America in fact, will boom as a result. Money is impatient to go somewhere and where better than a responsible United States, and Canada.

I have confidence that the American people will do the right thing in November.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Grant said:
Yes, I did and there is a connection. But it should be obvious that there is more to the US economy than just the stock market. When businesses start hiring and people start buying then we know that there is a possible turnaround. That was just a signal and, as I mentioned, a hope.



It would be difficult to find a historical correlation because no country has ever been $16 trillion in debt before, with added debts payable to a longer living baby boom generation who will be collecting money from the government rather than paying into it. If you can find a historical equivalence to this mess, then lets hear it.
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You claimed that debt discourages hiring, I cited Reagan's tenure as a rebuttal which you conveniently ignored. You then proceeded to embark on a wild tangent about how Walker's win signified a movement to counter the accumulation of debt, and the corresponding rise in stock prices to try to portray debt as a killer of investment all while simultaneously ignoring the DOW's success over the past 3 years despite large amounts of compiling debt. You're simply incorrect in this instance.

Of course you won't find a time period in which we can find comparable nominal figures as far as total debt is concerned, but we've experienced debt accumulation at around the same percentage (during the 80's) and as a percentage of gdp (40's and 50's), while the economy as a whole simultaneously grew at a healthy pace. Of course the latest crisis is unique unto itself, so you may be correct in stating that there isn't a specific situation to cite as an accurate comparison.
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Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Eighty Deuce said:
ROFLMAO ... I went to the numbers in your study. You apparently assumed something in a quote of it referenced something that it did not. Maybe you made it up. I don't know. Its not in your study is what I do know.
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This is hysterical! The numbers in the study I posted aren't expected for two more years. Yet here you are, applying them to today's unemployment. I can't help you are incapable of comprehending the inherent stupidity in applying non-existent numbers to today's actual numbers.

:doh :doh :doh


Eighty Deuce said:
Here is what your study said. I'll type large for you, as I realize there are issues there.

The impact on retiring baby boomers on the LFPR from 2004, through 2014, is a reduction of the rate by 0.4%. It has actually gone down by about 2.4% already, and we are not even yet to 2014. That's about 17%. Not 50%.

You are correct though. Some posters are low-hanging fruit. Just not the ones they think ;)
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I've already addressed that, so who knows why you're repeating it? Again, it's lower than expected because of the recession and since after (employment is a lagging indicator) the recession ended, approximately half of the decline is due to retiring baby boomers.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Eighty Deuce said:
No. But things are so bad in Europe, money is coming here that would otherwise not. Our only current saving grace, when we suck like we do, is that Europe sucks worse.
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Well then... thank YOUUUUUU European austerity!
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:
You claimed that debt discourages hiring, I cited Reagan's tenure as a rebuttal which you conveniently ignored.
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I ignored it because it is not relevant to today.
You then proceeded to embark on a wild tangent about how Walker's win signified a movement to counter the accumulation of debt, and the corresponding rise in stock prices to try to portray debt as a killer of investment all while simultaneously ignoring the DOW's success over the past 3 years despite large amounts of compiling debt.
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Use quotes rather than tangents.
You're simply incorrect in this instance.
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And if you continue to interpret what I say according to your own temperament rather than my own words then I'll probably continue to be incorrect.

Of course you won't find a time period in which we can find comparable nominal figures as far as total debt is concerned, but we've experienced debt accumulation at around the same percentage (during the 80's) and as a percentage of gdp (40's and 50's), while the economy as a whole simultaneously grew at a healthy pace. Of course the latest crisis is unique unto itself, so you may be correct in stating that there isn't a specific situation to cite as an accurate comparison.
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There weren't the entitlement packages then that there are now which does indeed make it unique. Unless the American people get their financial house in order there will be truly serious consequences.

As it is now there will still be riots in the streets, more property damage into the many millions and probably a few deaths until some order is restored. The next decade will be difficult, no matter who is in power. But it is better to act now rather then have it forced upon you later. Just look at Europe. America still has a chance and should take it.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

With record breaking profits how can one say the private sector is doing bad?
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

j-mac said:
The DOW is propped up artificially right now due to bailouts, corporate austerity measures, and Fed meddling.

Ask the Euro Zone how debt is effecting them right now.


j-mac
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What bailouts? The bailouts ended 1½ ago. But at least you acknowledge Obama's policies helped boost the Dow.
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

poweRob said:
Well then... thank YOUUUUUU European austerity!
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It was European excesses. But then, I wasn't expecting much. ;)
 
Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

winston53660 said:
With record breaking profits how can one say the private sector is doing bad?
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Record profits for the large multi-national companies accounts for less than 20% of the private sector.

If liberals would get out of Mom's basement, you might look around and get a better idea of things.
 
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