Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, negativ

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

Summary: We are still in negative territory in terms of jobs numbers since Obama took office. We still have 740,000 FEWER jobs now than when Obama was inaugurated and 161,000 FEWER jobs in the private sector than when Obama was inaugurated.


Molly's Middle America: How Many Jobs Has Obama Created or Lost? (March 2012 update)

Click to expand...

So the private sector is doing better then.. thanks for pointing that out and proving Obama correct.

Oh and that link. HAHAH.. she is actually trying to argue that seasonally unadjusted numbers actually mean something.. pathetic.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

PeteEU said:

So the private sector is doing better then.. thanks for pointing that out and proving Obama correct.

Click to expand...

If you think less jobs in the private sector now than when obama took office is better it's no wonder you support him.

Besides he didn't say better, he said fine. Less jobs now than when he took over is fine????? WTF

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

Summary: We are still in negative territory in terms of jobs numbers since Obama took office. We still have 740,000 FEWER jobs now than when Obama was inaugurated and 161,000 FEWER jobs in the private sector than when Obama was inaugurated.


Molly's Middle America: How Many Jobs Has Obama Created or Lost? (March 2012 update)

Click to expand...

You are using those darned "whole term" FACTS again. The MSNBC folks choose different facts, they draw a line, using the bottom of the recession as the base line, then attribute all before that point to "Bush" policy (since he signed the demorat congressional majority produced bills) and then attribute all "progress" from that low point to "Obama" policy, even if that includes nothing of consequence at all since 2010.

Obama must now run on his major "accomplishments" that seem to include a private economy that is "doing fine" and endless war on terror that he vowed to end, a doubled federal deficit that he vowed to cut in half and attempting to paint a gloom and doom picture if the "mean old GOP" returns to power. The basis for Obama's ideas to rile up "the base", is exactly what is turning off the 'moderate' and 'independent' voters, so all the GOP has to do is say, over and over, what Obama promised and what he actually delivered.

Obama can rant all day long about how the GOP is the party of the rich, but the vast majority of middle America can see that even under Obama and the demorats, that the middle class is no better off under Obama and that they are being saddled with massive debt for no gain at all. Obama running as the "jobs" president is not going to work out well for him.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Silly thing to say, given the overall state of the economy in a election year no less, but his broader point is something that must be considered, the only area in which state and local governments have direct influence and oversight has also experienced the heaviest job losses. Instead of attempting to design another heavily incentive based stimulus, why not directly fund the retainment of the current labor force? At this point, it seems like a no-brainer, further lay-offs coupled with already anemic growth isn't a ideal scenario.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

If you think less jobs in the private sector now than when obama took office is better it's no wonder you support him.

Besides he didn't say better, he said fine. Less jobs now than when he took over is fine????? WTF

Click to expand...

No I care about the facts. That you and dear Molly from the article you linked, have to use seasonally unadjusted numbers to manufacture a falsehood only shows how desperate the right are in discrediting Obama and what he has actually accomplished the last 3 years. Like it or not, the stock market is back near the top of before the crisis.. the US corporations are sitting on huge profits and bank accounts and not investing and there has been job growth for many many months on end. Compared to the situation when Obama took over.. yes the private sector is doing fine!

It is amazing how forgetful the right are when it comes to their own pathetic record of the last 11 years... you left Obama with an economy loosing 700k jobs a month! He has turned that around to actually gaining jobs a month despite being in a world wide economic crisis thanks to in part the US right.

Now we can discuss if it is good enough .. and I would agree it is not good enough and we can debate why it has not good enough and how it could be better... , and then we can debate if the fool Romney or the GOP can do any better ... and considering their record and actions.. err inactions over the last 4 years, then the answer has to be no. Their only answer is the same tired debunked policies that lead you into the hole that you are in now.. tax cuts and deregulation.

I dont support Obama but if I had a choice between the devil I know, and the fool that I dont know... then the devil I know will win any day of the week.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Here's two concepts that it appears Republicans and Fox News are having problem with, doing fine ≠ flourishing, and job growth ≠ record job growth.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

PeteEU said:

So the private sector is doing better then.. thanks for pointing that out and proving Obama correct.

Oh and that link. HAHAH.. she is actually trying to argue that seasonally unadjusted numbers actually mean something.. pathetic.

Click to expand...

You and Obama can tell the 8.2% of unemployed Americans the private sector is just fine. Maybe where you live being on food stamps is "fine" but its not in the USA whether you and Obama think so or not.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Hare said:

Silly thing to say, given the overall state of the economy in a election year no less, but his broader point is something that must be considered, the only area in which state and local governments have direct influence and oversight has also experienced the heaviest job losses. Instead of attempting to design another heavily incentive based stimulus, why not directly fund the retainment of the current labor force? At this point, it seems like a no-brainer, further lay-offs coupled with already anemic growth isn't a ideal scenario.

Click to expand...

The ONLY reason that state and local gov'ts are cutting "the fat" is that they must balance their budgets, unlike the federal gov't that is free to borrow (or print) unlimtted funds. The federal gov't under Obama has increased average annual federal spending from 20% of GDP to 24% of GDP (yep, a 20% increase) yet has left federal taxation unchanged at 17% of GDP, creating a permanent 40% federal defict that is clearly unsustainable.

As long as the federal gov't is willing to spend far more that it DARE ask in taxation the private economy will not improve; every dollar borrowed or taken by the gov't is a dollar that is not available to the private economy. The notion that the gov't may take from the rich and give to the poor to "create" spending demand is insane, since it must remain in place FOREVER to "work". We have seen what these "jump start" mass infusions of borrowed cash have done, which is darn little (if anything). Investment in crack babies, slums, union labor using industries, bank, state and local gov't bailouts and green energy have not worked. It is time for a new plan.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

ttwtt78640 said:

The ONLY reason that state and local gov'ts are cutting "the fat" is that they must balance their budgets, unlike the federal gov't that is free to borrow (or print) unlimtted funds. The federal gov't under Obama has increased average annual federal spending from 20% of GDP to 24% of GDP (yep, a 20% increase) yet has left federal taxation unchanged at 17% of GDP, creating a permanent 40% federal defict that is clearly unsustainable.

Click to expand...

That's very true, hence the necessity for federal intervention. More layoffs at this point would be highly counter-productive. Balancing budgets at the expense of growth and median wages isn't the solution.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

PeteEU said:

Hardly. The private sector is doing fine. Record profits for one.

Click to expand...

Yea, its not hard to make record profits when you don't pay nearly as many employees.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Before you libs go to far out on a limb defending obamas stupid statement, he is already running from it so your points are moot really.

President Barack Obama walked back his statement that the "private sector is doing fine," hours after he made the gaffe that became instant fodder for Republicans.

"It is absolutely clear that the economy is not doing fine. That's why I had a press conference," Obama told reporters from the Oval Office while meeting Philippines President Benigno Aquino III, according to NBC News.
President Barack Obama walked back his statement that the "private sector is doing fine," hours after he made the gaffe that became instant fodder for Republicans.

Obama Walks It Back: "The Economy Is Not Doing Fine"

EDIT.. On a second reading he really parsed his words here and never admitted "the private scetor" isn't doing fine. Feel free to continue defending his absurd stance.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Karl said:

Could you enumerate some of those rules for us?

Click to expand...

Just listen to Rush.

Once every two or three weeks he lists laws supported by the environmental whackos that push job creation to China.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

Excellent point! First Obama blaims the economy on Bush then he says the private sector is "doing just fine". Apparently he is praising Bush.

Click to expand...

Better late than never. Democrats never did give Bush the praise he deserved when he was in office.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

Summary: We are still in negative territory in terms of jobs numbers since Obama took office. We still have 740,000 FEWER jobs now than when Obama was inaugurated and 161,000 FEWER jobs in the private sector than when Obama was inaugurated.


Molly's Middle America: How Many Jobs Has Obama Created or Lost? (March 2012 update)

Click to expand...

Say what?? Obama has a net gain of job of 100,000 on his watch, not a net loss of 740,000 ...

Jan/2009: 142,187,000
May/2012: 142,287,000

BLS: Employed

He also has a net gain of private sector jobs.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

It was a pretty bad gaffe -- on par with Romney's "I like firing people" and several others. As Mitt would say, "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

johnny_rebson said:

Better late than never. Democrats never did give Bush the praise he deserved when he was in office.

Click to expand...

What praise did Bush deserve?? Under Obama, the private sector has gained 55,000 jobs. Which is horrible, but a) not so bad when you consider we lost 839,000 private sector jobs in a single month when Obama took over; and b) it's still a gain. By this point in Bush's term (May, 2004), we had lost 2,194,000 private secor jobs.

Jan/2001: 111,631,000
May/2004: 109,747,000
Jan/2009: 110,985,000
May/2012: 111,040,000

BLS: Total private

And speaking of praise Bush deserved, you may have noticed from 1/2001 through 1/2009, Bush's entire presidency, he had a net loss of 646,000 private sector jobs. Leaving office with a net loss of privates sector jobs is a dubious distinction he shares with only one other president ... Herbert Hoover.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

If you think less jobs in the private sector now than when obama took office is better it's no wonder you support him.

Besides he didn't say better, he said fine. Less jobs now than when he took over is fine????? WTF

Click to expand...

That you are under the delusion there are fewer private sector jobs under Obama is more of a reflection of your wishful thinking than it is reality...

Jan/2009: 110,985,000
May/2012: 111,040,000

BLS: Total private

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Teabags and GOP-far-tards love to misquote and quote out of context.

Nothing to see here.


Move along.


For 27 months straight jobs have been created. Put the quote in proper context. Far-tards.

hazlnut said:

Teabags and GOP-far-tards love to misquote and quote out of context.

Nothing to see here.


Move along.


For 27 months straight jobs have been created. Put the quote in proper context. Far-tards.

Click to expand...

What's a far-tard? Far-left leaning retard?

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

00timh said:

Obama is up for re election and he has to sell himself so yeah, he is going to say that we are doing better. If you can find a sitting POTUS who has said things suck under my watch but vote for me anyway, good luck. I doubt you will though.

Click to expand...

I believe Reagan acknowledged that the economy still sucked, but then stated that the tax cuts he enacted would need time to work, did he not?

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Sheik Yerbuti said:

What praise did Bush deserve?? Under Obama, the private sector has gained 55,000 jobs. Which is horrible, but a) not so bad when you consider we lost 839,000 private sector jobs in a single month when Obama took over; and b) it's still a gain. By this point in Bush's term (May, 2004), we had lost 2,194,000 private secor jobs.

Jan/2001: 111,631,000
May/2004: 109,747,000

No matter how you manipulate the numbers the private sector is not "doing just fine". There is another number too, the unemployment number which has gone up since obama took office as he and you claim more people are working.

The numbers reported here, based on Bureau of Labor Statistics All jobs lost from the time Obama took office to "trough" (bottom of recession): .....4,317,000
All jobs gained since "trough": ....3,577,000
Net LOSS in seasonally-adjusted jobs since Obama took office: .... 740,000 numbers, are "net" numbers; that is, the number of jobs gained after the number of jobs lost is subtracted, or the number of jobs lost after the number of jobs gained is added.

Seasonally adjusted:
Private-sector jobs lost to "trough" (bottom of recession): .....4,212,000
Private-sector jobs gained since "trough": .....4,052,000

Another way to put this is obama's job growth isn't even keeping up with population growth, that is the end of the story here and if you think that means the private sector is "doing just fine", I don't really have anything left to say too you.

Click to expand...

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

No matter how you manipulate the numbers the private sector is not "doing just fine".

Click to expand...

Yes, it is. The private sector has now produced 40 consecutive months of growth for a total of 4.3 million private sector jobs added. How is that not doing fine with your rightie-tinted glasses on? Let's keep in mind, you are so delirious with rightie information, that you were under the delusion that there has been a net loss of private sector jobs on Obama's watch, which was proven false.

sawyerloggingon said:

There is another number too, the unemployment number which has gone up since obama took office as he and you claim more people are working.

Click to expand...

Translation: You got beat up badly enough over private sector jobs, so now you want to change the subject.

a) I gave you the link to the total number of jobs under Obama and it is higher than when he started. You clearly don't understand the relationship between employment numbers and unemployment numbers.

b) if you want to talk about unemployment numbers, after 40 months in office, Obama is still performing better than most Republican presidents in recent history:

GHW Bush ....... 3,062,000
Nixon .............. 2,204,000
Bush Jr. ........... 2,189,000
Carter ................ 704,000
Obama ............... 671,000
Reagan ............... 385,000
Clinton ............ -1,902,000

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

sawyerloggingon said:

The numbers reported here, based on Bureau of Labor Statistics All jobs lost from the time Obama took office to "trough" (bottom of recession): .....4,317,000
All jobs gained since "trough": ....3,577,000
Net LOSS in seasonally-adjusted jobs since Obama took office: .... 740,000 numbers, are "net" numbers; that is, the number of jobs gained after the number of jobs lost is subtracted, or the number of jobs lost after the number of jobs gained is added.

Seasonally adjusted:
Private-sector jobs lost to "trough" (bottom of recession): .....4,212,000
Private-sector jobs gained since "trough": .....4,052,000

Click to expand...

Holy ****! You don't subtract jobs lost from jobs gained to determine the net. Who told you to do that???

Again, this is evidence that you can't grasp the difference between unemployment numbers and employment numbers.

sawyerloggingon said:

Another way to put this is obama's job growth isn't even keeping up with population growth, that is the end of the story here and if you think that means the private sector is "doing just fine", I don't really have anything left to say too you.

Click to expand...

That is simply not true when you factor in the Great Bush Recession. It is true if you add in the 3 to 4 million jobs lost during the first 6 months of 2009 until the recession ended. But since then, the unemployment rate has dropped, indicating Obama is ahead.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

Sheik Yerbuti said:

Yes, it is. The private sector has now produced 40 consecutive months of growth for a total of 4.3 million private sector jobs added. How is that not doing fine with your rightie-tinted glasses on? Let's keep in mind, you are so delirious with rightie information, that you were under the delusion that there has been a net loss of private sector jobs on Obama's watch, which was proven false.


Translation: You got beat up badly enough over private sector jobs, so now you want to change the subject.

a) I gave you the link to the total number of jobs under Obama and it is higher than when he started. You clearly don't understand the relationship between employment numbers and unemployment numbers.

b) if you want to talk about unemployment numbers, after 40 months in office, Obama is still performing better than most Republican presidents in recent history:

GHW Bush ....... 3,062,000
Nixon .............. 2,204,000
Bush Jr. ........... 2,189,000
Carter ................ 704,000
Obama ............... 671,000
Reagan ............... 385,000
Clinton ............ -1,902,000

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


Holy ****! You don't subtract jobs lost from jobs gained to determine the net. Who told you to do that???

Again, this is evidence that you can't grasp the difference between unemployment numbers and employment numbers.


That is simply not true when you factor in the Great Bush Recession. It is true if you add in the 3 to 4 million jobs lost during the first 6 months of 2009 until the recession ended. But since then, the unemployment rate has dropped, indicating Obama is ahead.

Click to expand...

We could agrue how to count the numbers all day long but as I said, if you think obama was right, "the private sector is just fine" you are as dillusional as him. I will speak to your unemployment numbers since you speak as glowingly of them as you do of the health of the private sector. Once again your numbers are bogus.

The unemployment rate has fallen a full percentage point since August to a three-year low. But last month's decline was not due to job growth. The government only counts people as unemployed if they are actively looking for work.


"In April, the percentage of adults working or looking for work fell to the lowest level in more than 30 years."

So if you add back all the people who have stopped looking for work you get a "real" unemployment rate of almost 15 percent.


"Factoring in those discouraged adults and others working part time for lack of full time opportunities, the unemployment rate is about 14.5 percent. Adding college graduates in low-skill positions, like counterwork at Starbucks, and the unemployment rate is likely closer to 18 percent," writes Peter Morici.


Read more: The real unemployment rate

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

All of the "at this point in their term" comparisons are pretty foolish. Whatever mess anyone inherited, the more applicable starting point would be where the mess bottomed out. Or where a President was given loads of money to "fix" it. Etc.

For instance, the mess Reagan inherited, with high interest rates and inflation, was such that his "low" didn't occur until he had been in office 20-22 months, in late '82. With Obama, the "low" was his fourth month in office. Play with the dates and circumstances all you want, but using Inauguration dates is to compare apples and oranges. Its for stupid people.

The measure is also not that jobs are created. It is jobs created above the minimum to absorb population growth into the work force. That is 125,000 - 140,000 per month. If below that, then things are getting worse. If above, then better. The only thing "better" about creating 100,000 jobs per month is that it is better than 80,000 jobs per month. But the country has gotten worse regardless. We are not "recovering" until we are above the 120-140K. We are still hemorrhaging when below that.

Since the Recession "ended", we are still hemmorrhaging. While we've had a few months above that Break Even, we have had more below the BE. And we are now back below it. The phrase "Jobless Recovery" seems a bit of an oxymoron.

Obama's results are flat at best. Considering that the real unemployment rate would be around 11.0 had he just kept the same Labor Force Participation Rate as when teh Recession "ended", it is difficult to find any success.

Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

sawyerloggingon said:

We could agrue how to count the numbers all day long but as I said, if you think obama was right, "the private sector is just fine" you are as dillusional as him.

Click to expand...

Hisses the poster who wrongly stated there are less private sector jobs now than when Obama started -- even though the BLS indicates there are more. :lamo

Save me your transference projection. :roll:

sawyerloggingon said:

I will speak to your unemployment numbers since you speak as glowingly of them as you do of the health of the private sector. Once again your numbers are bogus.

Click to expand...

Now you're flat out lying. I never said the unemployment numbers are glowing, I said he's doing better than most Republican presidents in recent history in terms of their first 40 months in office.

Secondly, the numbers I posted are not "bogus." They came directly from the BLS, which I linked to; and indicate exactly what I said. You're getting desperate, sawyer. A clear indication you know you're losing the debate.

sawyerloggingon said:

The unemployment rate has fallen a full percentage point since August to a three-year low. But last month's decline was not due to job growth. The government only counts people as unemployed if they are actively looking for work.


"In April, the percentage of adults working or looking for work fell to the lowest level in more than 30 years."

So if you add back all the people who have stopped looking for work you get a "real" unemployment rate of almost 15 percent.


"Factoring in those discouraged adults and others working part time for lack of full time opportunities, the unemployment rate is about 14.5 percent. Adding college graduates in low-skill positions, like counterwork at Starbucks, and the unemployment rate is likely closer to 18 percent," writes Peter Morici.


Read more: The real unemployment rate

Click to expand...

First of all, we now have May numbers, so looking at April to make a point is meaningless. But secondly, even when looking at the U6 rate, which you have now shifted your ever shifting argument to, you still lose the argument because the U6 rate at the end of Bush's Great Recession was 16.5%. It's now 14.8% ... so despite your desperate attempts to move the goal posts, I can still show that Obama is ahead when you remove the dead weight of the Great Bush Recession, which lost almost 12 million jobs according to U6 figures.