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Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

LaMidRighter said:
Bull****. The very fact that they let those guns walk after the first program failed is THE contributing factor, it was a F&F GUN with a F&F SERIAL NUMBER. You have no future credibility.
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Prof. Peabody said:
The problem is he did have a weapon allowed across the border by the Obama administration. It's a matter of culpability. If I provided that same gun and they traced it back to me I'd be prosecuted. Why should Obama administration officials be exempt?
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Your wasting your time. This one will continue to deny till Holder goes to jail....and he will.
 
justabubba said:
and you have no reason to whine

... unless you can present an argument that but for the availability of the walked weapon that agent would still be alive
and that is one you are without the ability to make
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Here's a fact: If the federal gun running program, under the Obama Admin and AG Holder had not happened, the federal agent would still be alive.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Your wasting your time. This one will continue to deny till Holder goes to jail....and he will.
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And then will most likely say that he was jailed wrongly. Earlier in the thread I was informed by a lib that the Plame leak came out of Cheney's office, when we know it was Richard Armitage....misinformation, and sticking to the liberal narrative is nearly a religious equivalent with these people.


j-mac
 
Billy the Kid said:
Here's a fact: If the federal gun running program, under the Obama Admin and AG Holder had not happened, the federal agent would still be alive.
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that's a bold piece of bull crap you are standing on
as if the person who shot the agent would not have otherwise had another weapon to inflict the same mortal wound
try again
 
justabubba said:
that's a bold piece of bull crap you are standing on
as if the person who shot the agent would not have otherwise had another weapon to inflict the same mortal wound
try again
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Ok, using your own standard, please provide evidence that the same person who shot Agent Terry that night would have had another firearm. Where he would have got it. Or, that Terry and he would have even crossed paths given any change in circumstance.

See, you callously set up a logical fallacy argument, then refuse to even say that it was wrong for this program to have been in place, and was responsible for the death of a Federal Border Agent.

Is your ideological alignment more important that being a stand up human yourself and showing a little empathy for the Agent killed, or his family?

j-mac
 
justabubba said:
that's a bold piece of bull crap you are standing on
as if the person who shot the agent would not have otherwise had another weapon to inflict the same mortal wound
try again
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You can't be this dense? Whew!

See this thread is about Fast and Furious, not about "another weapon".

But who am I to bring some reality into a fairytale. Good luck.
 
Billy the Kid said:
You can't be this dense? Whew!

See this thread is about Fast and Furious, not about "another weapon".

But who am I to bring some reality into a fairytale. Good luck.
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fairytale is an excellent assessment of what the wingers are whining about
the agent died
it's not as if he would not have died had his assassin used another weapon; one not made available due to the gun-walk
love the fabricated outrage however; keep it going
 
justabubba said:
and you have no reason to whine

... unless you can present an argument that but for the availability of the walked weapon that agent would still be alive
and that is one you are without the ability to make
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I rarely call anyone a moron, yet you certainly are pressing the issue, endlessly repeting the same thing hoping it will somehow become true. A murder of an agent occured using a fast and fuzzy "observed" firearm, that much is fact. Rather than stopping the crime, taking the weapon into evidence and making an arrest the DOJ order was "just watch". You keep repeating WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED... The 9/11 morons COULD HAVE used a stolen nuclear device, an alien ray gun or an Exxon-Mobile fuel tanker truck to crash into the Pentagon, but since they did not, we are dealing with our own airline industry security. As much as you love Obama and his buddies from Chicago, they still have actual jobs to do, for we the sheeple that PAY them, thus we expect them to do those jobs, and even to do them well. Get real!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I rarely call anyone a moron, yet you certainly are pressing the issue, endlessly repeting the same thing hoping it will somehow become true. A murder of an agent occured using a fast and fuzzy "observed" firearm, that much is fact. Rather than stopping the crime, taking the weapon into evidence and making an arrest the DOJ order was "just watch". You keep repeating WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED... The 9/11 morons COULD HAVE used a stolen nuclear device, an alien ray gun or an Exxon-Mobile fuel tanker truck to crash into the Pentagon, but since they did not, we are dealing with our own airline industry security. As much as you love Obama and his buddies from Chicago, they still have actual jobs to do, for we the sheeple that PAY them, thus we expect them to do those jobs, and even to do them well. Get real!
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i agree that moron is a word that comes to mind in reading posts within this thread
had the person who shot and killed the agent not had a walked weapon he would have used another
there would have been no change in circumstance
only a moron would think otherwise
 
justabubba said:
i agree that moron is a word that comes to mind in reading posts within this thread
had the person who shot and killed the agent not had a walked weapon he would have used another
there would have been no change in circumstance
only a moron would think otherwise
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we will hope you make the same point the next time some liberal gun hater starts whining when another Loughner shoots someone and the libs want to blame the gun or the dealer who sold it or the municipality that did not ban guns etc
 
TurtleDude said:
we will hope you make the same point the next time some liberal gun hater starts whining when another Loughner shoots someone and the libs want to blame the gun or the dealer who sold it or the municipality that did not ban guns etc
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glad you popped in
why are y'all so incensed about assault weapons being in mexico while there is an adamant insistence that assault weapons be available to citizens in the USA
 
justabubba said:
glad you popped in
why are y'all so incensed about assault weapons being in mexico while there is an adamant insistence that assault weapons be available to citizens in the USA
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I couldn't care less about Mexico-if they didn't buy FAUX assault rifles from USA Dealers illegally they would get REAL ones from their own corrupt military and police as well as from Chavez who just had a Russian AK factory built in his country. What pisses me off is an anti gun administration that tries to create "facts" to ban our guns with this sort of nonsense. and yes, honest americans should be able to own real assault rifles (assault weapon is a term people who are either ignorant of weapons or who are anti gun parrots spew) since they are clearly constitutionally protected.
 
justabubba said:
i agree that moron is a word that comes to mind in reading posts within this thread
had the person who shot and killed the agent not had a walked weapon he would have used another
there would have been no change in circumstance
only a moron would think otherwise
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And what degree of certainty do we have that another crime wouldnt have been committed eventually with a different F&F weapon.

Hypotheticals, they can say anything!
Bubba, you are using terrible logic, it happened, someone needs to be held responsible for it. That is whoever authorized the straw buys and let them walk away without tracking.
 
Billy-
you are using the same illogic the 'gun-grabbers' use when demanding tighter oversight of firearm sales.

You also contradict the argument many gun owners have about just how many weapons come from the USofA.

Finally you make it sound as if the ONLY weapons coming out of the USofA are Fast n Furious ones.

The first one makes the idiotic argument that if a point of sale source is eliminated, the bad guys would not be able to find suitable weapons :roll:

The Grab my Bible and Weapon crowd has long held the number of weapons leaving this country for Mexico is dwarfed by the military hardware coming out of Central/South America, (some is the 'contra' weaponry floating around from a previous administration but shhhhhh) so the badguys have plenty of other sources for weapons.

So bet your ass the badguys would have been at least as well armed no matter the source.

A brave agent died in the line of duty. That is a tragedy. No one is belittling his sacrifice or his family's grief.

No One

But I do think some very cynical politics is being played using the Agent's death.
 
notquiteright said:
Billy-
you are using the same illogic the 'gun-grabbers' use when demanding tighter oversight of firearm sales.

You also contradict the argument many gun owners have about just how many weapons come from the USofA.

Finally you make it sound as if the ONLY weapons coming out of the USofA are Fast n Furious ones.
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Almost every traceable weapon in the world comes from the U.S.A. not because we have the most but because we are one of the only countries that requires a serial number to be stamped on the weapon. The only reason for F&F was to have traceable weapons in the wrong hands for tracking, the reasons for such are suspect which is why this is one reason it's a problem. The second and more pressing reason is that because the first time this program was tried it was deemed to be too hard to control effectively, and the current administration tried it yet again, this time with human lives lost on both sides of the border, that is unforgiveable.

The first one makes the idiotic argument that if a point of sale source is eliminated, the bad guys would not be able to find suitable weapons :roll:
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Bad guys will get their hands on weapons, no question, in any situation and in any country they always do. The thing is though that a government should never be complicit in the process.

The Grab my Bible and Weapon crowd has long held the number of weapons leaving this country for Mexico is dwarfed by the military hardware coming out of Central/South America, (some is the 'contra' weaponry floating around from a previous administration but shhhhhh) so the badguys have plenty of other sources for weapons.
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No argument here.

So bet your ass the badguys would have been at least as well armed no matter the source.
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Possibly better armed TBH. This does not excuse a government action allowing such to happen and with loss of life, this is the main contention. Any civilian who engaged in the F&F tactics would be an old man when they finally saw the free side of a prison gate.

A brave agent died in the line of duty. That is a tragedy. No one is belittling his sacrifice or his family's grief.
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I don't think most people are. But when someone says it's a "non-issue" I personally assert that that particular statement is belittlement of the situation(not accusing you of this BTW).

No One

But I do think some very cynical politics is being played using the Agent's death.
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I think the partisans are in fact drawing lines in the sand. I am not, this whole situation is a gross abuse of power and innocent people have lost their lives because of a very stupid federal tactic, that is not a partisan problem, that is a crying shame.
 
TurtleDude said:
we will hope you make the same point the next time some liberal gun hater starts whining when another Loughner shoots someone and the libs want to blame the gun or the dealer who sold it or the municipality that did not ban guns etc
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When do fat and slim mean the same thing.
 
justabubba said:
fairytale is an excellent assessment of what the wingers are whining about
the agent died
it's not as if he would not have died had his assassin used another weapon; one not made available due to the gun-walk
love the fabricated outrage however; keep it going
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So all of a sudden "gun control" doesn't mean squat to the libs amongst us.

Flip flop ... flip flop .... whatever works to keep Obama and Holder with those halo's.

****ing pathetic.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
So all of a sudden "gun control" doesn't mean squat to the libs amongst us.

Flip flop ... flip flop .... whatever works to keep Obama and Holder with those halo's.

****ing pathetic.
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apologies
did not realize that you have suddenly become a gun control advocate
i am betting only if the guns are in mexico
 
justabubba said:
apologies
did not realize that you have suddenly become a gun control advocate
i am betting only if the guns are in mexico
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Mexico is a prime example of how stupid gun control is.

but we also know that the current administration was using it as an argument for more restrictions on US citizens

remember what rahmhole said about never allowing a good crisis to go to waste
 
justabubba said:
apologies
did not realize that you have suddenly become a gun control advocate
i am betting only if the guns are in mexico
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LOL ... I am not the one going "flip-flop" ...... guess I'm like a Flounder .. always one side up !

You come here and defend nonsense. You can continue to choose defense of nonsense until Hell freezes over. Its still nonsense.
 
justabubba said:
i agree that moron is a word that comes to mind in reading posts within this thread
had the person who shot and killed the agent not had a walked weapon he would have used another
there would have been no change in circumstance
only a moron would think otherwise
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So, an adult who provided a minor with alcohol then the minor then went out and ran someone over in the street driving drunk, the adult shouldn't be held responsible because the teen would have gotten the alcohol somewhere else?
 
AdamT said:
Jebus, are y'all still whining about this?! :lamo
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This is very bad news for Obama, because if Holder stays he will hang Obama. It won't look good if he fires Holder, but it will be mostly forgotten by November.

Sent from my blasted phone.
 
justabubba said:
fairytale is an excellent assessment of what the wingers are whining about
the agent died
it's not as if he would not have died had his assassin used another weapon; one not made available due to the gun-walk
love the fabricated outrage however; keep it going
Click to expand...


You my friend live in another dimension than regular folks.


Can you hear that phone ringing? You might want to answer it because it's "reality" calling to speak with you. :stars:

Good luck.
 
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