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Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

Conservative said:
The taxpayer has a right to tell the employee what they are willing to pay them and that is the point.
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Your point has been that a person's union dues is not their money. Once it goes into a paycheck, it is theirs, and they can do what they please with it.

You're just moving the goalposts because you can't win.
 
rocket88 said:
Your point has been that a person's union dues is not their money. Once it goes into a paycheck, it is theirs, and they can do what they please with it.

You're just moving the goalposts because you can't win.
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You are grossly misinformed. And apparently not aware of one of the major reforms Walker enacted, and which is the one that most pisses off the Unions.

This is how it was:

1) Public employees were made a part of the Union upon employment.

2) The law mandated that the government automatically deduct their Union dues form their paychecks, and to deliver that money to the Union.

3) 95% of Union political contributions went to Democrats.

Walker eliminated step #2. It is now voluntary.
 
rocket88 said:
Your point has been that a person's union dues is not their money. Once it goes into a paycheck, it is theirs, and they can do what they please with it.

You're just moving the goalposts because you can't win.
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It does appear that you need a reading comprehension course as that is what you want to believe. I have never stated that, only that the public unions are paid by the taxpayers. that is a fact that you want to ignore and my point has always been that the taxpayer who funds public employees should have a say in their pay and benefits directly and not through a paid Representative many of whom keep their jobs because of support from the various entities
 
VanceMack said:
To me it is very sad that we are left with those two primary options (Im very encouraged to see Gary Johnson taking the lead as the nominee for the Libertarian ticket. That MAY actually make things interesting). Of the two major parties I can think of three people (Clinton-D, Powell-C, Hunstman-R) that would actually make a positive difference for the country. Instead...holy ****. Those two...and a 'supporting' cast in congress.

Fear and tremble...the Mayans may have been on to something...
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It is sad to me that a hell of a lot partisans view it like a supporting a sports team. Winning is all that matters. I'd venture to say with a choice between Romney and Obama winning doesn't matter all that much.

I'm jazzed about Gary Johnson as the LP nominee. He makes a great deal of sense and he has a great track record. What a breath of fresh air.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Did you read the link I posted earlier today or not?
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Probably not, but this post wasn't to you. I quite frankly don't give a damn about any link you posted. The results are in and the unions lost, that is good enough for me.
 
Conservative said:
The taxpayer has a right to tell the employee what they are willing to pay them and that is the point.
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I fully agree, but the problem is the government employees have a union and that union promised the union vote in exchange for higher wages and benefits to liberal legislators. That bribery has now been put to rest by Walker, and that is because now the people see the injustice of previous liberal legislators buying union votes.
 
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Risky Thicket said:
It is sad to me that a hell of a lot partisans view it like a supporting a sports team. Winning is all that matters. I'd venture to say with a choice between Romney and Obama winning doesn't matter all that much.

I'm jazzed about Gary Johnson as the LP nominee. He makes a great deal of sense and he has a great track record. What a breath of fresh air.
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No. Its like supporting our kids, and our country. Had Walker not won in WI in '10, and not won again last night, then the taxpayers of WI go back to that wretched wealth transfer liberal cancer known as municipal employee unions.

Elections matter. In November, for the sake of my kids, and my country, I will actively participate in throwing that jackass Obama out of office. The "team" that I am rooting for is my family.

Time for you to wake up.
 
Conservative said:
Probably not, but this post wasn't to you. I quite frankly don't give a damn about any link you posted. The results are in and the unions lost, that is good enough for me.
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Fair enough. I don't support Citizens United. I don't want any candidate or party to have people writing half million dollar checks and sending basically anonymous money from other states and countries for the purpose of buying an election. I am not party dependent. I'm Independent. It isn't a game to me. Facts matter. I'm not saying I have all the facts. But, unlike you I want to know what difference Citizen's United did or did not make.

In the future I'll avoid your posts as it is obvious to me you really don't know what you are talking about, you do what you're told. That's all I need to know.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
No. Its like supporting our kids, and our country. Had Walker not won in WI in '10, and not won again last night, then the taxpayers of WI go back to that wretched wealth transfer liberal cancer known as municipal employee unions.

Elections matter. In November, for the sake of my kids, and my country, I will actively participate in throwing that jackass Obama out of office. The "team" that I am rooting for is my family.

Time for you to wake up.
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That's it? Can you give me specifics regarding "liberal transfer of wealth and unions" in Wisconsin? I mean exactly how much money which union and of that money how much was transferred to liberals? My money says you can't.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Fair enough. I don't support Citizens United. I don't want any candidate or party to have people writing half million dollar checks and sending basically anonymous money from other states and countries for the purpose of buying an election. I am not party dependent. I'm Independent. It isn't a game to me. Facts matter. I'm not saying I have all the facts. But, unlike you I want to know what difference Citizen's United did or did not make.

In the future I'll avoid your posts as it is obvious to me you really don't know what you are talking about, you do what you're told. That's all I need to know.
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LOL, no problem, one less poster that I need to deal with.
 
Risky Thicket said:
That's it? Can you give me specifics regarding "liberal transfer of wealth and unions" in Wisconsin? I mean exactly how much money which union and of that money how much was transferred to liberals? My money says you can't.
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'cmon man -- like you haven't seen those Youtube videos of elementary school teachers lounging on the beach in the French Riviera? Tooling around town in their tricked out Maybachs? Clearly that's Wisconsin's REAL problem: fat-cat public school teachers soaking the taxpayers and doing nothing in return (well, except ... educating their children :roll: ).
 
AdamT said:
'cmon man -- like you haven't seen those Youtube videos of elementary school teachers lounging on the beach in the French Riviera? Tooling around town in their tricked out Maybachs? Clearly that's Wisconsin's REAL problem: fat-cat public school teachers soaking the taxpayers and doing nothing in return (well, except ... educating their children :roll: ).
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Guess it is easy supporting public service employee pay and benefit programs if you don't live in the state and have to pay their salaries and benefits.
 
AdamT said:
'cmon man -- like you haven't seen those Youtube videos of elementary school teachers lounging on the beach in the French Riviera? Tooling around town in their tricked out Maybachs? Clearly that's Wisconsin's REAL problem: fat-cat public school teachers soaking the taxpayers and doing nothing in return (well, except ... educating their children :roll: ).
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Lol, hey AdamT and the rest of you liberals, wake up. Your policies don't work, NO STATE can afford your policies and states that reject your foolish ideas get their houses in order and their economic growth rates higher.

The thing that really "gets me" with liberals is that they don't understand this basic common sense like principle, a principle that says that our economic standard of living comes from our individual level of production. When you kill that through taxes and regulation, you kill your own economic standard of living. You THINK more government involvement makes your life better, it doesn't. You THINK government running healthcare will make it better, it won't. You THINK government running education has made it better, it hasn't. You THINK government taxing the rich and "spreading the wealth to you in the form of more welfare" will make your life better it will make it worse.

Liberals don't seem to look at the BIG PICTURE, the entire SCOPE of the situation. This example I'm about to provide is a good example of liberalism.

It's like a person that sees a bum on the street and their "compassion" says to go give him money to feed himself, clothe himself and provide a better way of living for himself. So their compassion makes them say I have $10k in the bank, let me give this guy $2k to help him. BUT, after you give him $2k he goes out and immediately buys more drinks to become more a drunk, plus the extra money allows him to buy this little beat down car off some "guy" he knows. Now we have a drunk behind the wheel. He kills some innocent person, ends up in prison for life and you, are now out of $2k with a lot of havoc caused. All "losses" in this situation.

I know that's an extreme example, but that's liberalism, it looks like it's "helping" but in actuality, all it does is make things worse than they were before. Liberals try looking at the BIG picture, the overall SCOPE of everything, then maybe you will understand why conservatives are against liberalism and why capitalism, is the NUMBER ONE economic system, line of thought and program in the world and the ONLY chance ANYBODY has of making life better for themselves, their family and their community.
 
Wake said:
This issue was a huge waster of our time and money. Both politicians should be ashamed of their immaturity and their smear campaigns. Barrett especially with his "Scott Walker is a rock star" gimmicky attacks. All of this time and energy was wasted, over $50,000,000 spent, for nothing.

Both politicians don't seem to give a damn about the rest of us. They seem far more content to waste money to keep themselves and their party members in power.

The only good thing about this drama is its end.
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I wouldn't say it was a waste of time. Walker winning means politicians can stand up to the unions. This is a major victory for anyone who thinks unions power should be curtailed and this is a victory for anyone who thinks people should actually have a choice in whether or not they want to join a union instead of it being forced on any new employees. Walker losing would have been a victory for everyone who does not think union power should be curtailed.If Walker lost then every politician who thought about curtailing union power would have not done so or have been very reluctant to do so.
 
SheWolf said:
He isn't jumping for joy. He is being a hack, and I am glad the people have spoken FTR.
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How about you jump...on outta the thread, because you're more interested in discussing other posters and not the topic.
 
Risky Thicket said:
That's it? Can you give me specifics regarding "liberal transfer of wealth and unions" in Wisconsin? I mean exactly how much money which union and of that money how much was transferred to liberals? My money says you can't.
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What ? You think that I am going to waste time looking up data to post for you, when IMMHO you should already be aware of it as a poster here ?

Here's what you can do, if you want to know. Google "Government employee unions pensions benefits" and then add a state name. I suggest beginning with Califonia, and Illinois.

As for you expecting to be given a handout, I will refer to the Cinese proverb: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
 
conservativeguy said:
LMFAO.....you libs sure are great at spewing the same old talking points.....even if those talking points are borderline retarded. Anyone who believes the people in Wisconsin relied almost exclusively on political ads to shape their opinions on this race is either the dullest knife in the drawer or a partisan hack. :lamo
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conservativeguy said:
Yeah, that's the ticket.....not enough coverage and an uninformed voting public! LMFAO
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That's your specific response to AdamT regarding the Citizens United ruling... which is pretty much unrestrained money for advertising. So the question that remains is... Why do you call your own logic retarded?
 
Risky Thicket said:
It is sad to me that a hell of a lot partisans view it like a supporting a sports team. Winning is all that matters. I'd venture to say with a choice between Romney and Obama winning doesn't matter all that much.

I'm jazzed about Gary Johnson as the LP nominee. He makes a great deal of sense and he has a great track record. What a breath of fresh air.
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I didnt know much about Johnson until Dana mentioned him. I like a lot about him. I was glad to see him escape the GOP cattle chute. I only HOPE that there will be loud enough support to insist that he be included in the debates. I dont think he has a snowballs chance in hell of winning...but I think he could open a lot of peoples eyes to intelligent reasonable third party alternatives.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
What ? You think that I am going to waste time looking up data to post for you, when IMMHO you should already be aware of it as a poster here ?

Here's what you can do, if you want to know. Google "Government employee unions pensions benefits" and then add a state name. I suggest beginning with Califonia, and Illinois.

As for you expecting to be given a handout, I will refer to the Cinese proverb: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
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And then one can sell that fisherperson the hook, line and sinker!
 
Eighty Deuce said:
What ? You think that I am going to waste time looking up data to post for you, when IMMHO you should already be aware of it as a poster here ?

Here's what you can do, if you want to know. Google "Government employee unions pensions benefits" and then add a state name. I suggest beginning with Califonia, and Illinois.

As for you expecting to be given a handout, I will refer to the Cinese proverb: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
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I'm still waitng for your to provide some support. And working for a wage and earning a pension is not a handout. So, be a little more specific about that if you can.
 
John Tucker said:
Lol, hey AdamT and the rest of you liberals, wake up. Your policies don't work, NO STATE can afford your policies and states that reject your foolish ideas get their houses in order and their economic growth rates higher.
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The thing that gets me about conservatives is that they have this fantasy view of life where everything works according to these talk radio platitudes, and they really really could not care less if their platitudes bear the slightest relation to reality. So in this case, the platitude is that (of course) government and unions = BAD, so you put the two together ... well! Whereas in reality, these public servants are performing extremely important functions and they aren't payed all that well. No, they aren't rich, or even upper middle class. Yes, the services they perform will suffer if you pay them less. No, cutting worker pay isn't the only way balance a budget. No, the state wasn't going broke, and certainly not because school teachers were living high on the hog. There's that BIG PICTURE you thought you were seeing but weren't actually seeing.

So yes, the best way to insure a state's prosperity is to attract a healthy tax base. Is the best way to do that to have the lowest possible taxes? No. The best way to attract a healthy tax base is to have a good balance between taxes and services, and of course to have AN EDUCATED WORKFORCE and GOOD SCHOOLS and SAFE COMMUNITIES.

But how is all this working out? Are these Tea Party governors performing as promised? Not so much, as it turns out. Walker is putting up the worst job numbers in the country. In Florida, Rick Scott has created a tiny fraction of the jobs he promised he would create, and he has one of the lowest approval ratings in the country. In New Jersey, Christie doesn't have the revenue to make good on his promised tax cuts, but he's going to do them anyway by BORROWING $260 million to finance transportation projects (he lied). Etc.
 
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VanceMack said:
I didnt know much about Johnson until Dana mentioned him. I like a lot about him. I was glad to see him escape the GOP cattle chute. I only HOPE that there will be loud enough support to insist that he be included in the debates. I dont think he has a snowballs chance in hell of winning...but I think he could open a lot of peoples eyes to intelligent reasonable third party alternatives.
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Exactly. Johnson is at the top of my list right now actually. If he were to get into the debates, I think his chances of getting elected are rather decent. As Jesse Venture and Ross Perot proved what can happen when you are allowed to participate in the debates. The only other issue is the Libertarian ballot access in all states.

*edit:

Found out that they are only not on the ballot in:


West Virginia
Louisiana
District of Columbia
Connecticut​


Not much to overcome with regards to electoral college there.
 
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