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Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

... Another lie from the right, Mr Gore did not try to "surpress(sic)" the absentee ballots from serving military. The right certainly did suppress and prevent eligible voters from voting and did prevent votes from being counted in the aftermath of the 2000 elections.

If you want to know the truth, read here:

LAW REVIEW 109

And if you want to continue to post false information, where ignorance is your excuse, then don't read.
 
New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs, in what was reported by a Democrat poll worker "The worst case of voter intimidation that I have ever seen" goes unprosecuted by the DoJ.

But God forbid a state want to enforce its most basic voter validation laws, in many cases where Dems then want to block even the most simple, the requirement for a picture ID, ........... No ! No ! Can't have that !!

As for corruption, and which political persuasion believes that only winning matters ... I need not consider your absurd Boss Tweed analogy. Hell No .... I only need look to Al Gore trying to surpress the Military abentee ballot in FL in 2000. .

We are going to compel legal voting as best we can down here. Gonna clean things up. To Democrats, "Oh the Horror" ;)

"When you're cornered in a debate with no way out, mention a completely off-topic but distantly related incident to make your side look better." Straight out of the Conservative Playbook.
 
Now why would the Justice Department order a purge of non-citizens to be stopped? A purge like this is a good thing, right? Well, not really. Not if a substantial number of purged voters are actually citizens, and are being added to the purge list because they don't happen to be white Republicans.



Article is here.

When they say "flagged" what do they mean? Doesn't sound like they took any voting rights away just identified some people to investigate. So when they sent the list to the elections supervisors they investigated and found some of them were citizens. Sounds like a working system to me. Wow, let's see, what it the possibility that an illegal alien in Florida is going be Hispanic as opposed to white or any other ethnicity? So we're suprised the list contained a lot of Hispanics? It would be very suspicious if the list didn't contain a lot of Hispanics. Targeting is just another word for excusing my voting block from discretion. Same old song and dance. Race/Minoirty card used for cover.
 
One of our gods Founding Fathers had something to say about guilty-until-proven-innocent.

"It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, 'whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,' and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever."

John Adams
2nd President of the United States, 1797-1801
 
One of our gods Founding Fathers had something to say about guilty-until-proven-innocent.

"It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, 'whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,' and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever."

John Adams
2nd President of the United States, 1797-1801

And this has what to do with this thread? This only means we apply the law reasonably not that we completely ignore a law because we might be wrong once. Adams is expressing a sentiment not suggesting that we don't investigate wrong doing.
 
New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs, in what was reported by a Democrat poll worker "The worst case of voter intimidation that I have ever seen" goes unprosecuted by the DoJ.

"Security" patrols stationed at polling places in Philly - YouTube

This is the video that started it all. But apparently this is not illegal. I guess it is perfectly acceptable to have racists stand in front of a polling place with clubs and intimidate members of other races.

My, how we have come full circle here. First the Klukkers, now the Black Panthers.

As for corruption, and which political persuasion believes that only winning matters ... I need not consider your absurd Boss Tweed analogy. Hell No .... I only need look to Al Gore trying to surpress the Military abentee ballot in FL in 2000.

Sure enough did.

Military Absentee Ballot Flap

In the counting of the ballots in Florida, the handling of the absentee ballots from military personnel overseas became a critical issue because it might well determine whether Al Gore or George W. Bush would be our next president. We were pleased to see that in this case the liberal as well as the conservative media reported that the Democrats had launched a concerted effort to get as many of these ballots as possible thrown out.

Senator Lieberman, who appeared on five Sunday talk shows on November 19th was pressed to explain this. The Democrats were insisting that hand counting the ballots in four Democratic counties was required to insure that no ballots were rejected on technicalities if the intention of the voter was clear, but at the time they were insisting that ballots sent by servicemen overseas should be rejected if they lacked a postmark. Lieberman, who is supposed to be the moral pillar of the Democrats, waffled. He agreed that there should be no discrimination against military personnel, but he said it was not up to him to decide what to do about it.

Two days later, the Washington Times reported in a front-page story that in Duvall County, Democrats battled for 19 hours to maximize the rejection of military absentee ballots and succeeded in disqualifying ten percent of them. That included one where a Navy officer had written on the envelope that he could not get it postmarked on the ship he was on.


We are going to compel legal voting as best we can down here. Gonna clean things up. To Democrats, "Oh the Horror" ;)

To me, I honestly think this is just another case of out of control political bickering. Because if the ones tossing out questionable voters were Democrats, we would probably have Republicans doing the same thing, but more quietly on a lesser scale.

I personally am sick to death of thise endless partaisan political bickering.
 
One of our gods Founding Fathers had something to say about guilty-until-proven-innocent.

This is not a court of law here. It is an administrative procedure.

And this is being done with plenty of time to have it handled administratively prior to the election. Heck, if you are one of the individuals, you just fill out the little form and mail it back to them. There, ain't that simple!

I just don't get this entire thing. The state has a question about eligability, so mails the person a form saying they need to write back or they may loose their voting privlidge. They are not removing it, and they are giving the individual ample time to clear this up before the election.

This is only a big deal because one of the parties think it is a big deal. They are not threatening to notify the INS, they are not threatening to arrest the people (even if they did violate Federal laws), the worst they can do is suspend their voting privlidges until it is cleared up.

So what is the big freaking deal here? Is it so much freaking work to take the letter, fill it out, and send it back? Are we becomming so lazy that being asked to verify who you are (because it certainly is not done when they accept your registration card) is now being pushed as a return to Jim Crowe.
 
Oh please. In the 2008 elections, the "New Black Panther Party" was like three people. No, they shouldn't be standing outside polling stations with clubs, but let's not act like this was some sort of massive voter suppression effort. (sorry, polling station. singular. best I can tell, it was two guys at one location and.. that's it)

Because I can just as easily point at a Republican campaign manager who was convicted of voter suppression via robocalls. Hah, proof, Republicans steal every election they win! La la la I can't hear you!
 
Oh please. In the 2008 elections, the "New Black Panther Party" was like three people. No, they shouldn't be standing outside polling stations with clubs, but let's not act like this was some sort of massive voter suppression effort. (sorry, polling station. singular. best I can tell, it was two guys at one location and.. that's it)
So voter suppression is only valid if it occurs on a wide scale with hundreds of people according to you. Single acts with one or two people threatening others is a-ok in your opinion. Right?

Because I can just as easily point at a Republican campaign manager who was convicted of voter suppression via robocalls. Hah, proof, Republicans steal every election they win! La la la I can't hear you!
As he should have been. Now I wonder why HIS case was tried and he was convicted and the NBPP wasn't.... :think:

Huh... so the Republican guy who got convicted should have been no big deal to you.....
 
Oh please. In the 2008 elections, the "New Black Panther Party" was like three people. No, they shouldn't be standing outside polling stations with clubs, but let's not act like this was some sort of massive voter suppression effort. (sorry, polling station. singular. best I can tell, it was two guys at one location and.. that's it)

Guys with clubs, in which no charges were filed and the Department of Justice has refused to investigate.
 
New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs [...]
One club, and there yet another example of the absolute inability of the right to present the facts without embellishment.
 
Guys with clubs, in which no charges were filed and the Department of Justice has refused to investigate.
Falsehood. On two levels. More to come, below:
 
If you want to know the truth, read here:

LAW REVIEW 109

And if you want to continue to post false information, where ignorance is your excuse, then don't read.
Falsehood. Repeated falsehood. The votes were challenged on technical issues, which your own biased link admits (but you have to dig to the footnotes to find it):

6 "The flawed ballots included ballots without postmarks, ballots postmarked after the election, ballots without witness signatures, ballots mailed from towns and cities within the United States and even ballots from voters who voted twice. All would have been disqualified had the state's election laws been strictly enforced." David Barstow & Don Van Natta Jr., "How Bush Took Florida: Mining the Overseas Absentee Vote", N.Y. Times, July 15, 2001, available at http://query.nytimes.com/search/advanced.
10 According to Congresspersons Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) and Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Calif.): Military voters witnessed their right to vote challenged because of disorder in our voting system. At the heart of the confusion was the troubling news that more than 1,500 military and overseas ballots were not counted. This fact, along with a history of voting irregularities throughout the country, underscores the need to ensure that the voting rights of the military and their families are protected. . . . Military voters should be protected from being disenfranchised because of technical problems that are beyond their control. Reasons for the 1,500-plus military and overseas ballots not being counted in the November 2000 election included postmark discrepancies, missing notarized signatures and confusion about residency requirements. Mac Thornberry & Ellen O. Tauscher, "MOVEing Military Voting into the 21st Century," The Officer, June 2001, at 22.
So, what is your excuse?

Edit: A 2001 article on the military ballot controversy: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/u...t-on-military-vote.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
 
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Falsehood. Repeated falsehood. The votes were challenged on technical issues, which your own biased link admits (but you have to dig to the footnotes to find it):

So, what is your excuse?

Edit: A 2001 article on the military ballot controversy: EXAMINING THE VOTE; Lieberman Put Democrats In Retreat on Military Vote - New York Times

In a nutshell, on the one hand we had chads being evaluated so as to divine "intent", where they had otherwise been properly disqualified for being improperly punched or marked.

On the other hand, we had military absentee ballots, many of which were sent from places where there was no MPO (military post office) from which they could obtain the postmark expected of normal domestic mail. As noted in an earlier post, if you would read, one such ballot even had a hand-written note on it by the offiicer who filled it out saying "I cannot get it postmarked on my ship". And his ballot was rejected at the urging of Duval County Democrats.

For all the Democrat hypocrites, its this BS two-faced crap that your post so amply demonstrates. And the circumstance we have with Gore in 2000. FYI, they amended the Federal Title Statutes, in 2008 I believe, so as to make it more difficult for Democrats to disenfranchise our military ever again.
 
If you want to know the truth, read here:

LAW REVIEW 109

And if you want to continue to post false information, where ignorance is your excuse, then don't read.


Naughty, naughty - maybe you should read it also and understand that it is a partisan website. yet even with its political leanings it still doesn't say what you are claiming.
During the Florida debacle, both sides made charges and counter-charges of disenfranchisement. For many military and non-military voters, disenfranchisement occurred because of the use of outdated voting equipment and procedures. When impartial equipment failed and procedures broke down, all means to effect partisan advantage were employed.


But the real kicker is the following from the linked site; why do I call it a 'kicker'? Because the modern right is constantly harping about local control and how federal intervention is not constitutional and states rights and on and on, yet in this instance they are all for negating a state court decision because the result is what they wanted. - That is called hypocrisy by most.
The Supreme Court reversed the decision of the Florida Supreme Court on 12 December 2000, effectively handing the presidency to George W. Bush
 
In a nutshell, on the one hand we had chads being evaluated so as to divine "intent", where they had otherwise been properly disqualified for being improperly punched or marked.
What you are grasping with both hands is a red herring :mrgreen:

On the other hand, we had military absentee ballots, many of which were sent from places where there was no MPO (military post office) from which they could obtain the postmark expected of normal domestic mail. As noted in an earlier post, if you would read, one such ballot even had a hand-written note on it by the offiicer who filled it out saying "I cannot get it postmarked on my ship". And his ballot was rejected at the urging of Duval County Democrats.
Assuming your unsourced story is true, the rules is the rules. If you want to blame the rules, then blame the rules. Instead of falsely blaming/demonizing others (Gore, in this case).

For all the Democrat hypocrites, its this BS two-faced crap that your post so amply demonstrates. And the circumstance we have with Gore in 2000. FYI, they amended the Federal Title Statutes, in 2008 I believe, so as to make it more difficult for Democrats to disenfranchise our military ever again.
And the ad hominem strawman propaganda train justs keeps on a rollin' -- toot toot, next stop Faux News, alllllll aboard!!!
train2.gif
 
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What you are grasping with both hands is a red herring :mrgreen:

Assuming your unsourced story is true, the rules is the rules. If you want to blame the rules, then blame the rules. Instead of falsely blaming/demonizing others (Gore, in this case).

And the ad hominem strawman propaganda train justs keeps on a rollin' -- toot toot, next stop Faux News, alllllll aboard!!!
train2.gif

LOL .... the point of it all is that Gov. Scott is attempting to enforce the rules, and all we have from the Left is a lot of babble about how its really to block Democrats from voting. No evidence. Nothing.

But then we show where this same Left has absolutely endorsed both disenfranchising of such as the military vote, while asking for the bending of rules to accomodate liberal precincts and counties. These last two points are fact, as demonstrated.

You also apparently do not know what "ad-hominem" means.
 
LOL .... the point of it all is that Gov. Scott is attempting to enforce the rules [...]
It is illegal to have a voter registration purge within 90 days of a primary or election. So much for the rules. Clearly you have just been pwned, and clearly Gov. Scott is breaking the law -- for which he should be arrested, tried, and based on the evidence available (which seems clear cut and irrefutable), convicted and sentenced.

Given his history in the private sector I'm sure he knows the drill :mrgreen:
 
It is illegal to have a voter registration purge within 90 days of a primary or election. So much for the rules. Clearly you have just been pwned, and clearly Gov. Scott is breaking the law -- for which he should be arrested, tried, and based on the evidence available (which seems clear cut and irrefutable), convicted and sentenced.

Given his history in the private sector I'm sure he knows the drill :mrgreen:

Take a closer look at that law, betcha it says "PRIOR TO" a primary election.
 
It is illegal to have a voter registration purge within 90 days of a primary or election. So much for the rules. Clearly you have just been pwned, and clearly Gov. Scott is breaking the law -- for which he should be arrested, tried, and based on the evidence available (which seems clear cut and irrefutable), convicted and sentenced.

Given his history in the private sector I'm sure he knows the drill :mrgreen:

So you are the legal expert, and you say that I have been pwned ! What liberal claptrap BS.

Read 'em and weep:

The Justice Department’s top voting rights lawyer, T. Christian Herren, said last week that Florida’s voter-purge effort violated NVRA because it fell within 90 days of a federal election.

Detzner argues Herren misread the law, which only applies to purges of once-eligible citizens who become ineligible through criminal conviction, death or mental incompetence. The 90-day purge-ban, which has barely been litigated, largely applies to efforts to remove voters who have moved — not voters who were ineligible in the first place, Detzner said.

“DOJ’s reading of the NVRA would grant greater protection against removal from the voter rolls to non-citizens — who were never eligible to vote — than to other categories of registered voters,” Detzner wrote. “Such a result is plainly contrary to the NVRA’s express purpose of “ensur[ing] that accurate and current voter registration rolls are maintained.”

If the state followed the federal demand, Detzner wrote, then it would help unlawful voters cast ballots. And that could cancel out the ballots cast by lawful voters and would therefore violate the U.S. Constitution, Detzner said.

“If the effect of the NVRA is to force a state to allow never-eligible non-citizens the opportunity to vote,” he wrote, “then the statute might violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution, which guarantees that the right to vote cannot be denied by a dilution of the weight of a citizen’s vote.”

And if that happens, Detzner said, citizen groups would sue.

“Presumably eligible voters in Florida have the right to bring a lawsuit in federal court to test whether their votes are being unconstitutionally denied by the federal government,” he wrote.

As for the Voting Rights Act claim, Detzner wrote, Florida already received federal permission to remove noncitizens, which is clearly spelled out in Florida law.

What’s more, the Voting Rights Act applies to only five Florida counties — Monroe, Hillsborough, Collier, Hardee and Hendry — and not the other 62 in Florida, including Miami-Dade, where about 1,600 of the 2,700 potential noncitizens were initially identified by the state in a database created by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.

It’s unclear if the Voting Rights Act requires the state to receive federal permission for the way in which he sought to identify noncitizens, by checking voter rolls with a motor-vehicle database that doesn’t have up-to-date citizenship information.

Detzner’s reasoning closely tracks an analysis by a former DOJ official, Hans von Spakovsky of the conservative Heritage Foundation, who arrived at the same conclusions.

Seminole County Supervisor of Elections Mike Ertel, who has been critical of the state’s handling of the database, said the federal government needs to explain why the Homeland Security database can’t be used to verify the status of voters.

"That’s a real question that needs to be answered," Ertel said.

DHS won’t comment.

read more:

Florida Gov. Scott says voter purge is legal, DOJ is wrong | McClatchy

According to legal experts cited above, the "purges" that are applicable in the law have to do wth such as residency. Presumably, this is because folks can't always re-register in a new location quickly, and need the option for an absentee ballot with their prior address. But to purge based on citizenship ineligibility is seen as being always allowed.

"Pwned" .... my ass. ;)
 
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[...] According to legal experts cited above, [...]
Detzner is not a "legal expert"; he is the Florida Secretary of State, and therefore hardly an reliable independent source on the legality of what he is trying to do. Yes, pwned. Again. Secondly, Detzner himself is pwned since the NVRA is not forcing him to allow illegals to vote, it is forcing him to do his housecleaning 90 days prior to the primary/election.

Too bad if that runs afoul of the plans to kick eligible Democrats off the rolls at the last minute.

[...]the "purges" that are applicable in the law have to do wth such as residency. Presumably, this is because folks can't always re-register in a new location quickly, and need the option for an absentee ballot with their prior address. But to purge based on citizenship ineligibility is seen as being always allowed. "Pwned" .... my ass. ;)

42 USC § 1973gg–6(c)(2)(A) A State shall complete, not later than 90 days prior to the date of a primary or general election for Federal office, any program the purpose of which is to systematically remove the names of ineligible voters from the official lists of eligible voters.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (B) Subparagraph (A) shall not be construed to preclude—
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (i) the removal of names from official lists of voters on a basis described in paragraph (3)(A) [names removed at the request of the registrant;] or (B) [names removed as provided by State law, by reason of criminal conviction or mental incapacity;] or (4)(A) [names removed the death of the registrant;] of subsection (a) of this section; or
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(ii) correction of registration records pursuant to this subchapter. [this blanket exception could mean just about anything; a court would have to render an interpretation]

42 USC § 1973gg [text in brackets is that of the poster, either quoting other sections or, in the one last case, offering an opinion]
Yes, pwned. Yet again, since nothing in the text of the law supports your claim. Secondly, inaccurate claims of non-citizenship by the state has exceeded accurate claims by a factor of 4,000% (400 vs 10). This alone should render the purge flawed and, therefore, illegal... as if it were not already illegal due to the expired 90 day deadline.
 
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Detzner is not a "legal expert"; he is the Florida Secretary of State, and therefore hardly an reliable independent source on the legality of what he is trying to do. Yes, pwned. Again.

He doesnt have to be "independent". He simply has to be within the law. Because you are certainly more of an expert than a Secretary of State :p

Talk about shooting your credibility.
 
It is illegal to have a voter registration purge within 90 days of a primary or election.

This purge is happening more then 90 days after the Florida Primary, and more then 90 days prior to the November General Election.

Next false point, please?
 
Detzner is not a "legal expert"; he is the Florida Secretary of State, and therefore hardly an reliable independent source on the legality of what he is trying to do. Yes, pwned. Again. Secondly, Detzner himself is pwned since the NVRA is not forcing him to allow illegals to vote, it is forcing him to do his housecleaning 90 days prior to the primary/election.

Too bad if that runs afoul of the plans to kick eligible Democrats off the rolls at the last minute.

Yes, pwned. Yet again, since nothing in the text of the law supports your claim. Secondly, inaccurate claims of non-citizenship by the state has exceeded accurate claims by a factor of 4,000% (400 vs 10). This alone should render the purge flawed and, therefore, illegal... as if it were not already illegal due to the expired 90 day deadline.

The Statute supports the legal interpretations that I quoted. Further, you think that our Secretary of State, and Governor, have not worked in conjunction with our Attorney General down here, Pam Biondi, and the ample resources of her office, in preparing this ? And you claim that others are "pwned" ?

How ****ing stupid !!!!!! How retarded !!!
 
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