• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

Hey, we can make this really simple, and follow the example of a great many other nations.

First, everybody gets a special internal passport.

Then we mandate voting at all elections. And when you vote, you get a stamp in your passport. Fail to vote, go to jail.

There we go, perfect democracy!

Then we can even take it a step further! When they stamp your passport, we can put in it what party you vote for! Hey, this would be perfect!

That way when some pig-dog Republican (and you know they all hate Welfare) tries to apply for some kinf of Federal program like Food Stamps, we can just kick them out, denying them since obviously they are against such programs in the first place.

There, perfect solution to all the problems. Perfect Democracy, where nobody is denied the right to vote.
 
Yes, but anyway a person wants to slice it, voting is a privilege, if you are not a certain age you cannot vote. As I understand it, if you are convicted of certain crimes etc you cannot vote. If voting is a "Right" then the moment you are born you can vote.

You are most definitely mistaken and not very well read; please see the 26th amendment to our constitution.
 
Last edited:
Hey, we can make this really simple, and follow the example of a great many other nations.

First, everybody gets a special internal passport.

Then we mandate voting at all elections. And when you vote, you get a stamp in your passport. Fail to vote, go to jail.

There we go, perfect democracy!

Then we can even take it a step further! When they stamp your passport, we can put in it what party you vote for! Hey, this would be perfect!

That way when some pig-dog Republican (and you know they all hate Welfare) tries to apply for some kinf of Federal program like Food Stamps, we can just kick them out, denying them since obviously they are against such programs in the first place.

There, perfect solution to all the problems. Perfect Democracy, where nobody is denied the right to vote.

I sincerely hope that you forget this bad dream, when you wake up. ;-)
 
At the end of the day there is no reason to question the integrity of our elections. The systems and penalties that have been in place for years are remarkably effective. If anything we should be making it EASIER to vote — not harder. Any attempt to crack down on the minuscule level of fraud that we have is almost certain to do more harm than good ... IF the objective is to have the most representative elections possible.

I've been saying this for a very long time, but the cons continue their quest to make it as difficult as possible.

GALVESTON - Volunteer voter registrars are fearful of new laws that impose criminal penalties for improperly filling out voter registration forms or turning them in late, a Galveston County deputy registrar testified Monday.

Volunteer says Texas voter laws cause fear of prosecution - Houston Chronicle

Shameful!
 
I sincerely hope that you forget this bad dream, when you wake up. ;-)

Actually, I did say that as a form of tongue-in-cheek, but it also has a basis in truth.

My wife is from Argentina. And she still has her "Internal Passport". And for many years she had to report to the Consolate in oreder to have it stamped to show she was out of the country and did not vote because of that. If she had returned to Argentina without such a stamp, she would have been subject to arrest for failure to vote.

And the passports for her parents were coded with different stamps, showing what party they voted for. Have the stamp of the wrong party, and you find yourself unable to attend school, unable to get certain jobs, unable to get services like hospitalization and medical care. Her grandfather was a pharmicist who for most of his life skirted the law, giving medical care out of a back room to those who did not have the "right stamps".

However, does that not sound like a perfect solution? Everybody gets a book confirming they are citizens, no more question of who can vote and who can not. Then making voting mandatory. Everybody votes, perfect democracy.
 
Yes, but anyway a person wants to slice it, voting is a privilege, if you are not a certain age you cannot vote. As I understand it, if you are convicted of certain crimes etc you cannot vote. If voting is a "Right" then the moment you are born you can vote.

Because there are rules around voting doesn't make it a privilege. It's only a privilege when comparing it to a dictatorship or monarchy or some other totalitarian system. Voting is a right as soon as you are born in the United States, unless that individual does something to revoke that right or is not eligible. It may be that voting is a Right and a privilege.
 
Voter ID cards here. Unfortunately, they don't have pictures on them and are simply pieces of printed paper. I think we do have to present a picture ID, but I forget. As previously posted at least twice, I firmly support excising those ineligible to vote from the rolls and ensuring that only those eligible to vote are able to do so. Apparently the main disagreement is the willingness by some to disenfranchise American citizens in an effort to capture to ineligible to vote. IMO, this is wrong. Find a better method to clean the roster.



I've said before that I want every single eligible voter to be able to vote. And I'm sure most that are debating the this thread feel the same.


But I don't want those that are here illegally to vote. I don't want the dead to vote. And as I posted in a prior post, if the State of Florida sent letter, like those Adam T posted, saying they had a check for $500.00 awaiting them if they had the proper ID, there'd be a run on getting IDs.
 
It's in the previously linked articles where legal American citizens had to prove they were eligible to vote. I can't see how any American, regardless of their party or racial orientation, can see how it is a good thing to disenfranchise American citizens then tell them to prove they are eligible to vote. If this happened in Texas, we'd have a Governor hanging in the Capital lobby.

Yea, Rick Perry would never deny the vote to innocent people. He executes them instead. :mrgreen:
 
I am not interested in a lecture about the electoral college. I know how it works. That's a trivial detail compared to the outrageously absurd comment that you made that takes a massive dump on the very essence of ALL citizens' right to vote. You called voting a PRIVILEGE. My god, how much farther can the Right slide??

Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. The Constitution does not anywhere give the individual citizen the right to vote for President. I empowers the electors, as you are aware.

The point of all of this is that it is up to each State to decide how it decides electors, to include conducting whatever election process it chooses, so long as it does not violate certain laws. However, the point stands, that its the States that must conduct its own elections. The rules for proving oneself, voting procedures, etc., can therefore vary from state to state.

Florida is trying to restore more integrity to the voting process which is its obligation to establish and manage. And the Federal Governent, rather than assisting with citizenship rolls and data, is choosing instead to hinder Florida. The Obama DoJ wants a leaky voting system.

Again, for the dense out there, the point of not having a Constitutional right to vote for President was done so as to empower the States with that responsibility to maintain.
 
Yea, Rick Perry would never deny the vote to innocent people. He executes them instead. :mrgreen:

Yeah, dropping a hellfire via a drone is much kinder and gentle. :wink:
 
Florida is trying to restore more integrity to the voting process which is its obligation to establish and manage.


Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. Rick Scott (Gov. Voldemort) is a Republican partisan, as are his various minions. He isn't trying to remove ineligible persons from the list of voters, he is attempting a purge of those who tend to vote for Democratic candidates and issues - nothing more, nothing less.


If Florida is "trying to restore more integrity to the voting process", why then have all 67 county election supervisors said they will refuse to use the list provided by the State and that they will not remove any person from the rolls of eligible voters until they have more confirmation?
 
Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. Rick Scott (Gov. Voldemort) is a Republican partisan, as are his various minions. He isn't trying to remove ineligible persons from the list of voters, he is attempting a purge of those who tend to vote for Democratic candidates and issues - nothing more, nothing less.


If Florida is "trying to restore more integrity to the voting process", why then have all 67 county election supervisors said they will refuse to use the list provided by the State and that they will not remove any person from the rolls of eligible voters until they have more confirmation?

It's pretty clear when you look at the big picture. If you really wanted to suppress Democratic voting, who would you go after? Well, young people tend to be Democrats. So Florida Republicans pass a
law that says any new voter registration has to be filed with the state within 48 hours of completion, or incur substantial fines. That makes it almost impossible for groups like The League of Women Voters to operate in Florida. This law has been blocked by the courts.

Florida judge blocks parts of "onerous" voter registration law - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

What else? Blacks tend to vote Democratic, so you pass a law severely restricting early voting. Why? Because statistics show that blacks are 50% more likely to vote early than other groups!

And finally, Hispanics tend to vote Democratic, so of course you try to limit Hispanic participation by putting on tens of thousands of them an affirmative burden to establish their eligibility!

How ****ing stupid does Scott think we are?
 
Last edited:
Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. Rick Scott (Gov. Voldemort) is a Republican partisan, as are his various minions. He isn't trying to remove ineligible persons from the list of voters, he is attempting a purge of those who tend to vote for Democratic candidates and issues - nothing more, nothing less.

Again, the dems are not helping themselves much with this tack. It just reinforces that dems are trying to protect folks who are ineligible to vote because they vote dem when they vote illegally. And shouldn't dems be taken to task for the fact that ineligible voters tend to vote democrat?

If Florida is "trying to restore more integrity to the voting process", why then have all 67 county election supervisors said they will refuse to use the list provided by the State and that they will not remove any person from the rolls of eligible voters until they have more confirmation?

Because we have a DOJ run by an entirely incompetent Atty Gen. Any of those counties have one ineligible vote in the next election and the supervisor for that county should be doing jail time. They're refusing to do their jobs for political reasons, let them Occupy a cell.
 
It's pretty clear when you look at the big picture. If you really wanted to suppress Democratic voting, who would you go after? Well, young people tend to be Democrats. So Florida Republicans pass a
law that says any new voter registration has to be filed with the state within 48 hours of completion, or incur substantial fines. That makes it almost impossible for groups like The League of Women Voters to operate in Florida. This law has been blocked by the courts.

Florida judge blocks parts of "onerous" voter registration law - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

What else? Blacks tend to vote Democratic, so you pass a law severely restricting early voting. Why? Because statistics show that blacks are 50% more likely to vote early than other groups!

And finally, Hispanics tend to vote Democratic, so of course you try to limit Hispanic participation by putting on tens of thousands of them an affirmative burden to establish their eligibility!

How ****ing stupid does Scott think we are?


Will you say any drivel whatsoever to support illegal voting? Yes you will. You forgot how Scott eats cute puppies and drinks the blood of virgins too.... :roll:
 
Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. Rick Scott (Gov. Voldemort) is a Republican partisan, as are his various minions. He isn't trying to remove ineligible persons from the list of voters, he is attempting a purge of those who tend to vote for Democratic candidates and issues - nothing more, nothing less.

Again, the dems are not helping themselves much with this tack. It just reinforces that dems are trying to protect folks who are ineligible to vote because they vote dem when they vote illegally. And shouldn't dems be taken to task for the fact that ineligible voters tend to vote democrat?

If Florida is "trying to restore more integrity to the voting process", why then have all 67 county election supervisors said they will refuse to use the list provided by the State and that they will not remove any person from the rolls of eligible voters until they have more confirmation?

Because we have a DOJ run by an entirely incompetent Atty Gen. Any of those counties have one ineligible vote in the next election and the supervisor for that county should be doing jail time. They're refusing to do their jobs for political reasons, let them Occupy a cell.

Does not compute - more than half of the election supervisors are Republicans, they stopped the purge before the DoJ issued an order
 
Does not compute - more than half of the election supervisors are Republicans, they stopped the purge before the DoJ issued an order


And once again, if just one of those illegal voters who would have been purged in those counties votes in the next election, the supervisor of that county should spend time in a cell. Has not a thing to do with parties, has very much to do with those supervisors who have a duty to maintain clean roles for a fair election.
 
It's pretty clear when you look at the big picture. If you really wanted to suppress Democratic voting, who would you go after? Well, young people tend to be Democrats. So Florida Republicans pass a
law that says any new voter registration has to be filed with the state within 48 hours of completion, or incur substantial fines. That makes it almost impossible for groups like The League of Women Voters to operate in Florida. This law has been blocked by the courts.

Florida judge blocks parts of "onerous" voter registration law - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

What else? Blacks tend to vote Democratic, so you pass a law severely restricting early voting. Why? Because statistics show that blacks are 50% more likely to vote early than other groups!

And finally, Hispanics tend to vote Democratic, so of course you try to limit Hispanic participation by putting on tens of thousands of them an affirmative burden to establish their eligibility!

How ****ing stupid does Scott think we are?

Well if that conspiracy theory is being played out, then he thinks you are really ****ing stupid. And if that was what was going on, then he would also be right.
 
Look. Maybe this is too tough for you to figure out. The Constitution does not anywhere give the individual citizen the right to vote for President. I empowers the electors, as you are aware.

The point of all of this is that it is up to each State to decide how it decides electors, to include conducting whatever election process it chooses, so long as it does not violate certain laws. However, the point stands, that its the States that must conduct its own elections. The rules for proving oneself, voting procedures, etc., can therefore vary from state to state.

Florida is trying to restore more integrity to the voting process which is its obligation to establish and manage. And the Federal Governent, rather than assisting with citizenship rolls and data, is choosing instead to hinder Florida. The Obama DoJ wants a leaky voting system.

Again, for the dense out there, the point of not having a Constitutional right to vote for President was done so as to empower the States with that responsibility to maintain.

Really? Why must we be so disingenuous? If we want to argue Fox News or MSNBC talking points, why not just post on those websites? We should all raise our standard of discourse and cut through the BS to discuss really issues; intelligently and with original points.

Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that any clear thinking individual actually believes there is a voter fraud problem, or believes that purging the over 100,000 persons from the voter roles of one state is a just action to remedy some 62 cases of voter fraud found nationwide over 3 years.

DOJ says it will sue Florida over voting rolls purge - CNN
States Like Florida Disenfranchise Americans in Name of 'Fraud' | Debate Club | US News Opinion

Let's get real, Republicans do not want, nor have they every wanted broad participation in elections... it just does not favor them.

Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo) - YouTube

The real voter fraud problem is being perpetrated by state governments on its citizens by implementing a solution for which there is no known problem and in the process denying certain citizens their right to participate in election process. I get that each state has broad rights to set eligibility requirements...so what? Using that has an excuse to rationalize wholesale voter suppression is a rationalization.... and for intelligent people to hide behind this rationalization is disingenuous.

This whole thing is a political game... the Repubs like low turnout, the Dems want to register as many voters as possible. Great, both sides play this game and argue it to their advantage. Everyone on this board with an IQ north of 100 knows this. Come on guys, deal with reality and upgrade the discussion.
 
Last edited:
Florida is trying to restore more integrity to the voting process

Trusting Florida Republicans to create integrity in the voting process is like giving all the ballots over to Boss Tweed so he can go through and take out the ones he thinks are suspicious.
 
Since the election has not yet been held, your argument is borne of hysteria.

It is not my argument but one that agrees with your position.

Agreed that it is extremely wrong for government to arbitrarily deprive American citizens their right to vote but its more than just two soldiers:


As the link notes, however, this issue is more than simply cleaning up the legal voter list. While I believe Gov. Scott is wrong to deprive citizens their right to vote, the Obama administration, specifically DHS, is wrong to deny access to the SAVE database as noted in the link.

But thanks for playing !
 
Last edited:
Let's get real, Republicans do not want, nor have they every wanted broad participation in elections... it just does not favor them.
Given that, the clear inability of Florida to hold a clean non-FUBARed election, and the general hodge-podge patchwork way elections are held in this country, I think it is high time that the federal government stepped up to the plate and enacted a national blueprint for how elections are held. Some bullet points:

1. Uniformity of voting method, one which employs paper ballots. No more different voting machines at different areas within the same state. No more electronic machines with no paper trail. Ideally no more electronic machines at all (too many issues, too difficult to use, too many unqualified operators).

2. States submit their voter registration rolls to the feds for citizenship verification. Eliminates the need or desire, such as we see in Florida, for 50 individual states to be raiding various federal databases at will.

3. Uniformity of ballot. During a national election all ballots use the exact same style and format. Remember the Florida butterfly ballot -- which almost without question robbed Al Gore of the 2000 election. Sample ballots are published in newspapers nationwide well before an election. Due to complexity in some states (number of issues on ballot), prepare three separate ballots to be cast -- federal, state, local.

4. One-time registration to vote. Once you are verified, being stricken from the rolls for inactivity (as some states do) is an impediment to voting. As is being stricken because you are likely to vote Democrat ;) If you've moved, but bring updated ID, I can't see any reason that can't be updated on election day. Let's make it easier to vote, not harder.

5. Depending on privacy issues, a nationwide database of those who voted in an election -- or at least a nationwide crosscheck for use by election officials. This would assuage any fears of multiple votes (which probably don't exist outside a handful of instances, but we have to throw the right a bone ;) ).

6. Standardized early voting. Whatever is decided, make it uniform across the country, and permanent (Florida keeps diddling with theirs, trying to either restrict voting or confuse voters).
 
Last edited:
Trusting Florida Republicans to create integrity in the voting process is like giving all the ballots over to Boss Tweed so he can go through and take out the ones he thinks are suspicious.

New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs, in what was reported by a Democrat poll worker "The worst case of voter intimidation that I have ever seen" goes unprosecuted by the DoJ.

But God forbid a state want to enforce its most basic voter validation laws, in many cases where Dems then want to block even the most simple, the requirement for a picture ID, ........... No ! No ! Can't have that !!

As for corruption, and which political persuasion believes that only winning matters ... I need not consider your absurd Boss Tweed analogy. Hell No .... I only need look to Al Gore trying to surpress the Military abentee ballot in FL in 2000. .

We are going to compel legal voting as best we can down here. Gonna clean things up. To Democrats, "Oh the Horror" ;)
 
New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs, in what was reported by a Democrat poll worker "The worst case of voter intimidation that I have ever seen" goes unprosecuted by the DoJ.

But God forbid a state want to enforce its most basic voter validation laws, in many cases where Dems then want to block even the most simple, the requirement for a picture ID, ........... No ! No ! Can't have that !!

As for corruption, and which political persuasion believes that only winning matters ... I need not consider your absurd Boss Tweed analogy. Hell No .... I only need look to Al Gore trying to surpress the Military abentee ballot in FL in 2000. .

We are going to compel legal voting as best we can down here. Gonna clean things up. To Democrats, "Oh the Horror" ;)


Just a couple of problems with this comment
There was no "Democrat poll worker" claiming voter intimidation in the Philadelphia voting place.

Technically, it is the State of Florida, that is attempting to remove voters from the rolls of those eligible to vote, but it is the local officials at the county level who have found the lists provided to them by the State to be filled with inaccuracies. Shouldn't the election supervisors also be considered part of the "state"?

Another lie from the right, Mr Gore did not try to "surpress(sic)" the absentee ballots from serving military. The right certainly did suppress and prevent eligible voters from voting and did prevent votes from being counted in the aftermath of the 2000 elections.
 
Just a couple of problems with this comment
There was no "Democrat poll worker" claiming voter intimidation in the Philadelphia voting place.

Technically, it is the State of Florida, that is attempting to remove voters from the rolls of those eligible to vote, but it is the local officials at the county level who have found the lists provided to them by the State to be filled with inaccuracies. Shouldn't the election supervisors also be considered part of the "state"?

Another lie from the right, Mr Gore did not try to "surpress(sic)" the absentee ballots from serving military. The right certainly did suppress and prevent eligible voters from voting and did prevent votes from being counted in the aftermath of the 2000 elections.

There was the evidence I noted.

And Gore did.
 
New Black Panther Party goons in uniforms and with clubs, in what was reported by a Democrat poll worker "The worst case of voter intimidation that I have ever seen" goes unprosecuted by the DoJ.

But God forbid a state want to enforce its most basic voter validation laws, in many cases where Dems then want to block even the most simple, the requirement for a picture ID, ........... No ! No ! Can't have that !!

I completely agree that a crime was committed by King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson and they should have been prosecuted for it. However, unless you are advocating that "Two wrongs make a right", then I fail to follow your reasoning on why anyone should support political games with our voting system or disenfranchising honest and legal American citizens for political reasons.

Evidence That New Black Panther Party Did Intimidate Voters
 
Back
Top Bottom