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Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to State's Rights...perhaps at its worse.

Frustrating though it may be at times, doesn't each State select who their reps will be through the Electoral College and hasn't it actually served the United States quite well?

Perhaps these problems were foreseen by the founders and why it was they established some safeguards against abuse by one leader or one party. .
 
Frustrating though it may be at times, doesn't each State select who their reps will be through the Electoral College and hasn't it actually served the United States quite well?

Perhaps these problems were foreseen by the founders and why it was they established some safeguards against abuse by one leader or one party. .

LOL you give far too much credit to the founders... they were after all dictators themselves, slave owners and worse. States rights is a fine thing on paper, but because of the problems in the past with states who abuse their own citizens and worse, then those rights must be taken away slowly.

Florida lost its right to manage its own election system 100% when it openly discriminated against blacks and latinos back in the day. And situations like this does not help their case when 60% of those sent a letter were latino, and the fail rate (as in people actually were citizens) was huge 30+%.... and if we only count those that responded, then the fail rate was even higher.
 
No, all states require registration, but most allow you to register and vote right at the polling place. I have no problem with requiring registration, although IMO the only reason not to allow same day registration is voter suppression. Heck, I'm even OK with requiring a photo ID. But these so called voter ID laws that tack on all sorts of other requirements in attempts to rig the elections are not remotely acceptable.

But of course same day registration at the polling place would never encourage fraud, Nooooooo...There is no way anyone could ever visit more than one polling place in a day....As far as ID law's, what requirements are you proposing are unacceptable?

Here is what you maybe don't get. Committing voter fraud by actually going into a polling place would be idiotic. Totally inefficient and high risk. It is hard enough getting even half of legal voters to vote. If somebody wanted to make a big push to get more votes, why would they possibly push for illegal voters when there are millions of legal voters who haven't voted? It'd be way easier to get legal voters to vote than to get people to commit a crime.

Easy, much easier to have these people disappear after pulling the lever.

And, regardless, if somebody wanted to commit voter fraud, they find ways to do it that result in hundreds or thousands of votes and involve less risk, such as sending in fake absentee ballots or fraud by election workers.

Yep, this happens too. Remember all the stories of demo election workers with hundreds if not thousands of ballots that magically appear in the trunks of their cars when needed? Watch Madison tomorrow....

That kind of stuff happens, but fraud committed by going into a polling place and voting when you shouldn't doesn't really happen at all. Again, that is what literally hundreds of studies have all concluded.


Hundreds of studies eh? Well, since we have a study.....:roll:

It just baffles me. It's like the right just doesn't even care whether there is actual factual evidence for things anymore. They just go off half cocked about everything and even when faced with the actual evidence, they are unphased.... Has the right just collapsed into a cesspool of the stupid or what?

Nah, more like jerks on the left who like to call names, and make bogus claims raise suspicion.

j-mac
 
I thought this is why the names are being 'flagged:'

The state's list was based on Florida residents who hold "non-citizen" driver licenses. But that database, kept by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, is not automatically updated when an individual becomes a citizen.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-01/news/os-doj-strikes-down-voter-purge-20120601_1_voter-purge-voter-registration-national-voter-rights-act

Quite possible, but if you believe the liberals its a GOP plot to steal the election. I guess this way they are setting up their pre-blame if they lose the White House this year...
 
Quite possible, but if you believe the liberals its a GOP plot to steal the election. I guess this way they are setting up their pre-blame if they lose the White House this year...


Good point.


j-mac
 
But of course same day registration at the polling place would never encourage fraud, Nooooooo...There is no way anyone could ever visit more than one polling place in a day....As far as ID law's, what requirements are you proposing are unacceptable?

Proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Minnesota has same day registration if you can prove residency with a utility bill. Voter fraud has not been a big problem (around 1/10 of 1%). So keep your talking points going, but you don't know what you're talking about.



Yep, this happens too. Remember all the stories of demo election workers with hundreds if not thousands of ballots that magically appear in the trunks of their cars when needed? Watch Madison tomorrow....

Talk about setting up your excuses ahead of time...


Hundreds of studies eh? Well, since we have a study.....:roll:

True, why pay attention to an actual study when we've got the Republican party's talking points to tell us the truth? :lamo
 
Yep, this happens too. Remember all the stories of demo election workers with hundreds if not thousands of ballots that magically appear in the trunks of their cars when needed? Watch Madison tomorrow....


j-mac


The most recent story and one that is relevant to the Wisconsin recall effort does involve a bunch of votes being "found" unexpectedly. It happened last year in Wisconsin

14,000 votes 'found' by Republican clerk
In one explosive stroke Thursday, the clerk in a Republican stronghold tilted the tight Supreme Court race in favor of Justice David Prosser by recovering thousands of untallied votes for the incumbent.

Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus said Thursday that she failed to save on her computer and then report 14,315 votes in the city of Brookfield, omitting them entirely in an unofficial total she released after Tuesday's election. With other smaller errors in Waukesha County, Prosser gained 7,582 votes over his challenger, JoAnne Kloppenburg, leaving the sitting justice significantly ahead for now amid ongoing official counting.

UP to that point, the Democratic challenger had been leading by 204 votes. Not the first time, this county has had problems with the vote count.
Wisconsin County That 'Found' Lost Votes Apparently Has Major Voting Irregularities For Years...

In the race for Governor/Lieutenant Governor there were a total of 176,112 votes cast. For Attorney General there were a total of 174,047 votes cast. And for Secretary of State there were a total 170,440 votes cast.

So, look at the 3rd line of the top of that report (link below) ...Total Ballots Cast: 156,804. So based on those numbers 20,000 extra votes were cast in the election that weren't actually accounted for in the ballots cast.

http://www.waukeshacounty.gov/uploa...cial_Election_Combined_Summary_Nov20_2006.LST

Nah, more like jerks on the right who like to call names, and make bogus claims raise suspicion......:roll:
 
So the state should do more research or "Due Diligence" to determine if they are or are not citizens?
Yes. I don't know of anyone who is against removing ineligible voters from the rolls.

It's the carpet bombing sweep, sending out letters to thousands and effectively saying...'Prove you are the real deal, all over again'. Remember, that the voter registrar has already vetted someone when they registered to vote. If for some reason they have been declared ineligible to vote since then, by all send that person the letter after more research or "Due Diligence"!!!!
 
Here is what you maybe don't get. Committing voter fraud by actually going into a polling place would be idiotic. Totally inefficient and high risk. It is hard enough getting even half of legal voters to vote. If somebody wanted to make a big push to get more votes, why would they possibly push for illegal voters when there are millions of legal voters who haven't voted? It'd be way easier to get legal voters to vote than to get people to commit a crime. And, regardless, if somebody wanted to commit voter fraud, they find ways to do it that result in hundreds or thousands of votes and involve less risk, such as sending in fake absentee ballots or fraud by election workers. That kind of stuff happens, but fraud committed by going into a polling place and voting when you shouldn't doesn't really happen at all. Again, that is what literally hundreds of studies have all concluded. It just baffles me. It's like the right just doesn't even care whether there is actual factual evidence for things anymore. They just go off half cocked about everything and even when faced with the actual evidence, they are unphased.... Has the right just collapsed into a cesspool of the stupid or what?

I've pointed this out many times.

IF and that's a very big IF, someone was to go to so much trouble (the sheer logistics to get that many fake in-person voters) for such little reward , what's one more little step of making a fake photo ID?
 
Frustrating though it may be at times, doesn't each State select who their reps will be through the Electoral College and hasn't it actually served the United States quite well?
No. Representatives to state legislatures and to Congress (House and Senate) are determined strictly by the voters. Only the vote for the President of the United States is ratified by the Electoral College and the Senate. (See Art II, Section 1, clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution)

Perhaps these problems were foreseen by the founders and why it was they established some safeguards against abuse by one leader or one party. .
Hence, the reason the Office of the President of the United States has term limits (not to mention that the President cannot appoint himself with any other title, i.e., King).
 
It seems that the Feds had almost 50 years to fix the Florida problem but couldn't. Bless the American people for their patience.

How many years do you suggest it take to fix racism in a society?
 
But of course same day registration at the polling place would never encourage fraud, Nooooooo...There is no way anyone could ever visit more than one polling place in a day....

Same day registration shouldn't make that any easier to pull off. They still follow all the same procedures regardless of where they do it. In theory maybe if they aren't computerized you could register multiple places and vote before they caught it, but when they go to enter the registration information into the database they'd certainly catch it and probably exclude all your votes.

As far as ID law's, what requirements are you proposing are unacceptable?

Well, really I think that any gaming of it at all is a problem. I think they should just require a valid photo ID like everything else does and leave it at that. Using these levers to try to manipulate results by allowing passports here, but not there, and allowing military IDs here, and not there, and so on, is just a road we can't even start down. In some states they're even doing this thing where certain forms of ID are accepted in one county and not in another so that they can really tweak it to try to maximize the elderly vote in the part of the state that is favorable to their party, but make it harder for elderly people to vote in another part of the state where the elderly don't favor them so much.

Make no mistake, these guys have incredibly detailed block by block maps of exactly how each demographic group votes sliced every way you can imagine and they have extensive research about exactly what percentage of those groups have what kinds of ID. They know that in this particular voting district they'll gain 2% if they don't allow medicare cards, and in this other voting district they'll gain 9% if they don't allow military IDs, and so on.

The most problematic requirements are that the ID be issued by the state (as opposed to passports, medicare cards, student IDs, military IDs, IDs from other states, etc), and that it have your current address. Those two account for most of the 10% they're excluding.

Easy, much easier to have these people disappear after pulling the lever.

Well, I get why you might have assumed that, but it isn't true. All the studies have found that it isn't true. Again, just motivating legal voters to vote once is really hard. If they have surplus get out the vote resources, that is where they spend them, not on trying to get people to vote illegally. It's just more efficient use of resources, and again, all the studies have shown that. It isn't really debatable, it's just a factual question that has been conclusively answered at this point.

Nah, more like jerks on the left who like to call names, and make bogus claims raise suspicion.

LOL. So the fact that the people the right attacks complain when they are attacked is why the right attacks them? We should just shut up and take it and then you'd stop? Uh, I don't think so.
 
[...] It just baffles me. It's like the right just doesn't even care whether there is actual factual evidence for things anymore. They just go off half cocked about everything and even when faced with the actual evidence, they are unphased.... Has the right just collapsed into a cesspool of the stupid or what?
Ding-ding-ding -- we have a winner!

Today's right relies on fear to implement their agenda. Fear that a black president is going to steal America. Fear that a Hispanic is going to steal your job. Fear that a Muslim is going to kill you. Fear that an illegal alien is going to steal your vote. Fear that a third world tin pot country is going to nuke us (that doesn't even possess nuclear weapons).

They hope to use that fear to implement their brand of fascism. Any facts that may offset or invalidate that fear must be marginalized, dismissed, or attacked. The minions know that, and carry the flag of the wannabe oppressors accordingly.
 
But of course same day registration at the polling place would never encourage fraud, Nooooooo...There is no way anyone could ever visit more than one polling place in a day....
Since you have no evidence to support your fairy tale, then no, same day registration apparently does not encourage fraud.

Nah, more like jerks on the left who like to call names, and make bogus claims raise suspicion.
Didn't you just make a bogus claim in order to raise suspicion?
confuse.gif
 
Wow. Good thing we are on message boards.....Have a nice day


j-mac
 
Detzner also accused the Dept. of Homeland Security of not giving Florida access to a federal database with citizenship information.

“By denying Florida access to the SAVE database, DHS appears to have violated federal law, which provides that states may use the SAVE database ‘for any legal purpose such as … voter registration,’” the letter states.

And, Detzner added, DHS is required to respond to any state’s request to check the citizenship or immigration status of any individual.

“The federal Department of Homeland Security may, for months, violate federal law and deny Florida and other states access to the SAVE database so that the federal Department of Justice may then assert that the resulting delays in a state’s election-integrity efforts violate the time periods established in another federal law,” he wrote. “This hardly seems like an approach earnestly designed to protect the integrity of elections and to ensure that eligible voters have their votes counted.”


Read more: Florida defies Justice Department on voter purge - Mackenzie Weinger - POLITICO.com

So let me see if I get this straight. Florida is going through its voter rolls to ensure voter eligibility. They want to double check this to ensure non-citizens aren't registered. Pretty common sense concept. This Admin has been screaming for two years that they're respnosible for immigration and maintain the "citizenship" list. Florida tries to access a federal database which is completely acceptible for lawful purposes, which verifying voters rolls surely is, and gets denied.

Its pretty clear that this Admin does not want those not elligible purged from the list.

But of course you don't hear about this all over the news. Just the WWII veteran that was mistakenly purged.
 
So let me see if I get this straight. [...] But of course you don't hear about this all over the news. Just the WWII veteran that was mistakenly purged.
Well, since the link you posted only gives the FL side of the story,
and since the FL side of the story seems to be omitting some rather large facts,
and since there are other news stories on the subject,
and due to the fact that about 400 of 2600 people (15%) have been erroneously purged (not just one WWII veteran),
that creaking sound you hear is a result of you being way, way out on a limb of misinformation and conjecture ;)

Read this then reflect: The Bizarre and Confusing Standoff Between Florida and DOJ Over Voter Purging | The Nation
 
Let's not toss about conjecture - the WWII veteran was not purged. He received a notice that he would be in thirty days if he didn't respond with verification. And btw, since these articles have no problem telling us what percentages were this and that, what percentage of those notified were dead, felons or non-citizens?
 
Well, since the link you posted only gives the FL side of the story,
and since the FL side of the story seems to be omitting some rather large facts,
and since there are other news stories on the subject,
and due to the fact that about 400 of 2600 people (15%) have been erroneously purged (not just one WWII veteran),
that creaking sound you hear is a result of you being way, way out on a limb of misinformation and conjecture ;)

Read this then reflect: The Bizarre and Confusing Standoff Between Florida and DOJ Over Voter Purging | The Nation

You make no distinction from actually being purged and being flagged as needing more information to prevent being purged (audited), a big diference. Many more are audited by the IRS than are actually found to owe additional taxes. Florida, as any other state, must keep its records up to date, or they are useless. A voting system only works if it can assure that people vote only in their state/district of residence, that they are citizens, that they are not felons, are of legal age and that they vote only once and only as themselves, in any single election.
 
Another tidbit - the entire state of Florida is not under oversight by the DOJ under the VRA, certain counties within Florida are.
 
And btw, since these articles have no problem telling us what percentages were this and that, what percentage of those notified were dead, felons or non-citizens?
Graphic is in the The Nation link I posted. Check it out.
 
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