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Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

CriticalThought said:
Uh huh. When you are trying to undermine the election process while justifying to yourself that it is okay because you are doing it to serve your side...that is pretty much what makes you and ACORN cut from the same cloth.
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So now you admit that ACORN's objective was to undermine the election process?

Thanks.


j-mac
 
CriticalThought said:
Uh huh. When you are trying to undermine the election process while justifying to yourself that it is okay because you are doing it to serve your side...that is pretty much what makes you and ACORN cut from the same cloth.
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One actively tries to subvert the election process, while the other is attempting to protect it... Sorry, but that's a "fail" as far as I'm concerned.
 
j-mac said:
And Al Gore wanted to exclude entire counties, and military votes...:shrug: Will you call that out too? Me thinks not.
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No kiddo. That's not true lol. He never wanted to exclude any counties. Not sure what you're thinking of there. For the military votes, what they wanted to exclude were military votes cast after the election was over and after it became clear that it was going to be a recount. Ultimately they did count them, despite it being illegal to do so.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Uh....it is the Federal Governments problem to fix the illegal immigration problem by sealing off the border. If they would do that and purge the illegals already here with a few simple steps Florida wouldn't have to do what they have done. Take away their ability to get legitimate jobs with phony or stolen social security numbers. The SSA and IRS are all too well aware of multiple people using a single social security number. One lady from California had 81 people in 17 states using hers and this isn't a unique story. With modern computer databases, it wouldn't be hard to pluck out all the duplicate or non issued users excepting the original issuee. Then send notices to their employers the duplicate users payments are coming from that there appears to be an error and they must verify the social security number within 30 days or face massive fines and jail time. Enforcement had a ripple effect back in 2006 when IFCO (wooden palette maker) got caught in a Government sting. A local area electronics maker fired 88 employees that couldn't produce a valid SSN and they weren't under scrutiny by ICE. The jobs were quickly filled with citizens. E-Verify must become manditory, no exceptions and used to verify citizenship for any government benefits. Take away their ability to get legitimate jobs with forged paperwork and they will go home on their own. This is a simple cost effective way to open up several million existing jobs to citizens out of work. It will also save Billions in Government benefits going to those who circumvented the legal immigration process.
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Why are the righties continuing to rant on about illegal immigration and the Obama Administration's "failures" in this matter?

Sept 2010 article
Report Shows Unauthorized Immigrants Leaving U.S.

For several years, and certainly since the recession began, the number of immigrants entering the U.S. illegally has been dropping sharply.

Now, evidence from the Pew Hispanic Center says that more are also leaving the country.

In a new report, Pew finds that the number of unauthorized immigrants fell 8 percent between 2007 and 2009, the biggest such decline in two decades.

The change is dramatic. During the first half of this decade, an estimated 850,000 people came into the U.S. illegally each year. The Pew Hispanic Center says that as of last year, that number is believed to be down to 300,000 and still dropping.
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more recent article, April 2012
For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter

A four-decade tidal wave of Mexican immigration to the United States has receded, causing a historic shift in migration patterns as more Mexicans appear to be leaving the United States for Mexico than the other way around, according to a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.
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The "Mexican immigrants" in this article includes legal as well as illegals.

Your example of multiple illegals using one SS number was from 2006, as was the story about the cargo pallet maker - got anything more up to date? You know - so you can really accuse that Kenyan anti-colonialist of the crime.

July 2010
Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

May 2011
A Crackdown on Employing Illegal Workers

June 2011
More 'Silent Raids' Over Immigration
Wednesday's surge in so-called silent raids drew criticism from both the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and immigrant advocates.

It brought to 2,338 the number of companies audited by ICE in the fiscal year that began Oct. 1 and topped the prior year's record of 2,196. The audits, affecting such businesses as garment makers, produce growers and fast-food chains, result in the firing of every illegal immigrant found on a company's payroll.
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from the WSJ article, showing the hypocrisy of some Republicans
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce in the past has refrained from making public comments about the audits. But on Wednesday, Randy Johnson, a senior vice president, said: "We are concerned the audits are being based more on a fishing expedition than firm facts."
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The present Administration appears to be pissing off both sides of the question, yet some on the right continue to rail against the President for not doing enough. One does have to consider the idea that there is absolutely nothing that will satisfy the right other than the immediate resignation of Obama for they continue to attack him from both sides of many questions, which is particularly noticeable when their attacks are based on actions they have supported in the past but now think are signs of a "socialist takeover"
 
Grim17 said:
One actively tries to subvert the election process, while the other is attempting to protect it... Sorry, but that's a "fail" as far as I'm concerned.
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What a funny claim. From what I can tell, you are throwing out far. far more citizen names than illegal names. Is that how you protect the election process? Do you throw gasoline on fire to protect a burning building?

It must be hard to lie this hard to yourself. But I see ACORN supporters do it, so I'm not surprised that you do it as well.
 
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CriticalThought said:
Uh huh. When you are trying to undermine the election process while justifying to yourself that it is okay because you are doing it to serve your side...that is pretty much what makes you and ACORN cut from the same cloth.
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I agree with you most of the time but not on this matter - ACORN did not try to subvert the election process. Every claim made by the right against the organisation was shown to be false. There were problems associated with some of the people they paid to enroll voters but those were all reported by ACORN to the authorities and there were no known incidences of actual fraudulent voters found on those enrollments participating in elections.
 
j-mac said:
So now you admit that ACORN's objective was to undermine the election process?

Thanks.


j-mac
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I call it exactly as I see. Just as I see your objective is to undermine the election process.
 
Somerville said:
I agree with you most of the time but not on this matter - ACORN did not try to subvert the election process. Every claim made by the right against the organisation was shown to be false. There were problems associated with some of the people they paid to enroll voters but those were all reported by ACORN to the authorities and there were no known incidences of actual fraudulent voters found on those enrollments participating in elections.
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We can agree to disagree. I'm certain most members of ACORN had good intentions just as many people who push this Florida matter have good intentions. But I know the posters on this forum are not stupid. They know what is going on and what Scott's real agenda is. If they want to play games and pretend otherwise then that is their priority but I'm calling them out on it.

They are no better than the worst ACORN folk.
 
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Beyond the 5 counties that are still under civil rights era scrutiny by the DoJ, the federal government should not be blocking any effort to purge the election rolls of ineligible voters due to death, conviction or lack of citizenship !
 
Disputatious71 said:
Beyond the 5 counties that are still under civil rights era scrutiny by the DoJ, the federal government should not be blocking any effort to purge the election rolls of ineligible voters due to death, conviction or lack of citizenship !
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The problem lies in the fact that Florida is not "making an effort", it seems to be just throwing out random names from certain demographic groups.
 
Somerville said:
One does have to consider the idea that there is absolutely nothing that will satisfy the right other than the immediate resignation of Obama for they continue to attack him from both sides of many questions, which is particularly noticeable when their attacks are based on actions they have supported in the past but now think are signs of a "socialist takeover"
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You are correct sir. Only the immediate resignation of Obama will do. Unlike many posters on many forums, I don't pretend to be unbiased. I never voted for Bush in either 2000 or 2004. But the vitriol from the left from Jan 2001 on for 8 years really pissed me off badly. I promised myself if Obama got elected I'd return the favor by bashing him over anything and everything I disagreed with him doing. We are simply giving the left what they gave the right for 8 years. Now the left doesn't like it? Maybe next time they won't do anything they don't want turned around on them....or not.
 
Florida is openly violating federal law if it continues with this. The Voting Rights Act requires that procedures like this be pre-cleared by the Department of Justice or a court. Florida chose to go to the Department of Justice rather than a court, the DOJ refused to pre-clear it. If it thinks the DOJ is in error, it needs to take it to court. Just to do it anyways is a very serious breach of federal law.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
You are correct sir. Only the immediate resignation of Obama will do. Unlike many posters on many forums, I don't pretend to be unbiased. I never voted for Bush in either 2000 or 2004. But the vitriol from the left from Jan 2001 on for 8 years really pissed me off badly. I promised myself if Obama got elected I'd return the favor by bashing him over anything and everything I disagreed with him doing. We are simply giving the left what they gave the right for 8 years. Now the left doesn't like it? Maybe next time they won't do anything they don't want turned around on them....or not.
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Certainly does show your capacity to think clearly and logically on matters of import :roll:
 
Somerville said:
The problem lies in the fact that Florida is not "making an effort", it seems to be just throwing out random names from certain demographic groups.
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No the problem is that with opinions like yours parroting the partisan political agenda and ignoring the fact that these names are NOT random in order to stir up the ignorant public into creating a well meaning outcry over perceived violations. These names are being flagged due to some voters being convicted, dying or lack of citizenship whether by intent, clerical error or other misfortune. This does not mean those flagged in error will, after due diligence, be denied their legal right to vote if they have one !
 
Disputatious71 said:
This does not mean those flagged in error will, after due diligence, be denied their legal right to vote if they have one !
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Wanta bet on it? Florida has already shown a propensity to disenfranchise voters in past elections, why should it be expected to change for the next one?
 
j-mac said:
And Al Gore wanted to exclude entire counties, and military votes...:shrug: Will you call that out too? Me thinks not.
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Your claims, as presented, are false.

See, I called that out :mrgreen:

Will you provide proof to substantiate your claims? Me thinks not.
 
Grant said:
Yeah, and you just might be.

My understanding is that there are over 2 million federal employees. Isn't there an agency somewhere which can figure out who is eligible to vote?

It's been over 235 year now. Aren't the citizens getting a little impatient for the Feds to solve the problem?
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What problem?
 
Grim17 said:
If only the Fed's would put half the effort in preventing illegal voting, we might just have a sound, legitimate electoral system. But as we have all witnessed over the last 4 years, the Feds only care about enforcing laws that meet with Obama and the progressive agenda.
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Other than a half dozen people or so countrywide over the past decade or two, can you provide any evidence of illegal voting?
 
Grim17 said:
One actively tries to subvert the election process, while the other is attempting to protect it... Sorry, but that's a "fail" as far as I'm concerned.
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A little more accurate would be to say one side wants to game the system in one way and the other side wants to game the system the other way. Not that I expect you to understand.

Republicans want to suppress turnout. Why? Because historically they win elections when less people vote. Democrats want people who shouldn't be allowed to vote to vote because the more people that vote, the better they do.

I know the partisan hacks don't want to admit that their side is possibly trying to game the system, but they are. They just want to win, and they don't care how it happens. And their faithful minions will help them no matter what.
 
Disputatious71 said:
This does not mean those flagged in error will, after due diligence, be denied their legal right to vote if they have one !
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No it doesn't, but all the party cares about is that the process will likely take more than 5 months. After which point, it won't matter because the election will be over.
 
teamosil said:
Florida is openly violating federal law if it continues with this. The Voting Rights Act requires that procedures like this be pre-cleared by the Department of Justice or a court. Florida chose to go to the Department of Justice rather than a court, the DOJ refused to pre-clear it. If it thinks the DOJ is in error, it needs to take it to court. Just to do it anyways is a very serious breach of federal law.
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The Sec of State of Florida has been asking for a noncitizenship list from DHS for 9 months. The reason why the deadline is closing in is because DHS and DOJ have been dragging their feet to provide information so Florida can comply with its own law.

Ignored by Obama DHS: Florida's Request for Citizenship Database to Review Voting Lists | Sunshine State News

Secretary of State Ken Detzner wrote again to the Department of Homeland Security on Thursday in an attempt to obtain what would be more updated citizenship information than the state currently has. Detzner is trying to remove noncitizens from the list of registered voters.

“Federal law expressly requires your agency to respond to state inquiries to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within its jurisdiction for any purpose authorized by law,” Detzner wrote to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

“Yet, after nine months of requests, we have not been granted access to that information or any other available DHS database.”
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This isnt some new development, Florida has been working on this for months.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The Sec of State of Florida has been asking for a noncitizenship list from DHS for 9 months.
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Well now you see why they don't want to give it to them, right? Because DHS knew they were going to use it for an election fraud scheme, as in fact they are doing now.
 
CriticalThought said:
We can agree to disagree. I'm certain most members of ACORN had good intentions just as many people who push this Florida matter have good intentions. But I know the posters on this forum are not stupid. They know what is going on and what Scott's real agenda is. If they want to play games and pretend otherwise then that is their priority but I'm calling them out on it.

They are no better than the worst ACORN folk.
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LOL...."Scott's real agenda"? What the hell is that CT? either you think you have some insight into the personal thoughts of Rick Scott, or you are so full of yourself that you believe your opinion the only one worth of consideration...Which is it?

j-mac
 
teamosil said:
To exclude minority voters same as last time they pulled this scam obviously.
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Oh bull! I am so sick and GD tired of this race card BS! People that shouldn't vote, should NOT be allowed to vote, regardless of what group you think they fall into.

j-mac
 
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