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Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

If you read the letter, if you think the info they have is false, you may request a hearing OR you may return the completed Voter Eligibility Form. Which BOTH people mentioned in the article and it's references say they did.

Maureen Russo was born in Akron, Ohio. For the last 40 years she’s operated a dog boarding and grooming business — Bobbi’s World Kennels — with her husband in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Maureen is 60 years old and has been a registered voter in the state for the last four decades. She regularly votes at the church around the corner from her home.

Two weeks ago she received a letter from the State of Florida informing her that they had received information that she was not born in this country and, therefore, was ineligible to vote.

She was given an option to request “an administrative hearing to present evidence” disputing the determination of the State of Florida that she was ineligible to vote. Unless Maureen returned a form requesting such a hearing within 30 days, she was told, it would result in “the removal of your name from the voter registration rolls.”

She immediately sent off a registered letter to the State with a copy of her passport. She hasn’t heard anything back.
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It would be good to see if Bill Internicola or Maureen Russo are now eligible to vote or if they do have to show up for a hearing first. Until you clear that up, the dodge about transportation is a moot point.
 
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AdamT said:
You are mistaken. In fact a linked article shows a scan of an actual letter that was sent out. The letter provides no option to mail in proof. The letter states that the recipient must schedule a HEARING where they will have the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or else they lose their voting privilege.

View attachment 67129061
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Did you actually read the form?

The Broward Couny Supervisor of Elections' Office has received information from the State of Florida that you are not a United States citizen, hotwever you are registered to vote.

If you agree with this information, please complete the enclosed Voter Acceptance or Denial of Eligability Form. If you believe that this information is false, you may request a hearing with the Supervosir of Elections, for the purpose of providing proof that you are a United States citizen.

The enclosed Voter Eligability Form must be completed and returned to the Supervosor of Elections' Office within thirty (30) days. Failure to submit this form within thirty (30) days may result in the removal of your name from the voter registration rolls. You will no longer be eligable to vote, until you can provide proof that you are a United States citizen.

I think what we have here is a badly worded memo. But the name of the form itself, Voter Acceptance or Denial of Eligability Form clearly shows that this is for use if you agree or disagree with the information. And with it then later stating that if you do not respond within 30 days you may be removed, this seems to be the case. If people had responded and returned the filled out form, I bet that they would be able to remain on the rolls without a hearing.

It says nothing like they must schedule a hearing, only that they may do so. The only thing that they must do is return the form.
 
Deuce said:
How about one American citizen being denied his voice by not being allowed to vote in the first place? Or how about one American being told not to vote and being told a lie in order to make sure he doesn't? (i.e. "if you have an unpaid parking ticket you are ineligible to vote, if you vote it's a felony!" or "Your candidate already has this in the bag, no need to go vote")


"Drowned out by fraudulent votes" is a laugh. The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small. Yes, steps should be taken to ensure an honest election process, but not at the expense of disenfranchising legitimate voters.
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Voter verification is fine.

Except when its done in a way that screams shenanigans.

All of these measures in a year leading up to a major election.

No significant evidence of fraudulent votes being cast. Certainly not a "crisis".

Ever notice that this isnt done AFTER elections? When there's plenty of TIME to address any issues that arise for eligible voters?

More political games than a real concern for clean elections, IMHO.
 
Could also be the purges conducted by state's SOSes that are done as part of their duty to maintain voter roles, and during non-election years, don't merit the same hubbub in the press.
 
clownboy said:
Could also be the purges conducted by state's SOSes that are done as part of their duty to maintain voter roles, and during non-election years, don't merit the same hubbub in the press.
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Don't you know that denying people the right to vote, and as many times as they like, is fundamentally inhumane and anyone that wishes to follow the law should be persecuted and re-educated in accordance with the progressive/liberal/socialist values? [/sarcasm]
 
ksu_aviator said:
Don't you know that denying people the right to vote, and as many times as they like, is fundamentally inhumane and anyone that wishes to follow the law should be persecuted and re-educated in accordance with the progressive/liberal/socialist values? [/sarcasm]
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Heh, silly me, I forgot again. Well, off to the re-education camp for another refresher. :mrgreen:
 
Really? Purging voter registration for dead and illegals? Thank God for the government stopping that nonsense! I know I want officials elected by zombies and people who have ABSOLUTELY no right to be here!!!
 
Jenn said:
Really? Purging voter registration for dead and illegals? Thank God for the government stopping that nonsense! I know I want officials elected by zombies and people who have ABSOLUTELY no right to be here!!!
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And don't forget the very important pet voting movement.

Local News | Woman registers her dog to vote; prosecutors growl | Seattle Times Newspaper

Who let the dogs vote? The State of New Mexico! — RT

sisu: "I found a cat that was registered to vote"

And of course as a cross-over, we can't forget dead zombie pets:

Voter registration mailer addressed to deceased dog -- GazetteXtra

The official-looking mailing she received about two weeks ago was addressed to Molly Damrow.

Molly died last fall.

Molly was a dog.

The mailing from the Voter Participation Center suggested Molly should register to vote. Enclosed was a form with Molly's name and address already filled in.

Complete the form and send it to the state Government Accountability Board "today!" the letter said.

"Our records show that you are eligible to vote in the 2012 presidential election," it said. "All you need to do is fill out the attached registration form."
 
GPS_Flex said:
This is typical liberal racism by danarhea. Ignore the fact that the state has been asking the feds to help confirm who is and isn’t a citizen and act like you are outraged that these “white republicans” are trying to return to the days of Jim Crow.

How pathetic it must be to see white boogieman republicans hiding around every corner just looking to enslave everyone else. What a joke.
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It's unfortunate that you believe these 2 soldiers might as well be Mexicans who don't have identification if they don't vote the way you want them to.
 
danarhea said:
It's unfortunate that you believe these 2 soldiers might as well be Mexicans who don't have identification if they don't vote the way you want them to.
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Oh, the two ****ing poor soldiers ...... since trying to clean up the system is more difficult and error-prone, such that a couple soldiers, and others, might be inconvenienced since Homeland Security will not help, we're supposed to cry a river.

I'm a resident of Florida, and we gonna kick the **** out of the Obama Administration on this ... and then we're going to be key in voting that lard-ass out of office.

Obama is a cancer on the Republic.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Oh, the two ****ing poor soldiers ...... since trying to clean up the system is more difficult and error-prone, such that a couple soldiers, and others, might be inconvenienced since Homeland Security will not help, we're supposed to cry a river.

I'm a resident of Florida, and we gonna kick the **** out of the Obama Administration on this ... and then we're going to be key in voting that lard-ass out of office.

Obama is a cancer on the Republic.
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Yeah, I'm in Florida, too, and guess what? Scott has had this issue booted up his ass. It's over.
 
Deuce said:
The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small.
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Since there is no voter ID, how do you know what the percentage of an unknown quantity is?
 
danarhea said:
It's unfortunate that you believe these 2 soldiers might as well be Mexicans who don't have identification if they don't vote the way you want them to.
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Agreed that it is extremely wrong for government to arbitrarily deprive American citizens their right to vote but its more than just two soldiers:
The purge, they point out, has snared dozens of native-born people and others who are legally eligible to vote, including African Americans, naturalized Haitians and Latinos — and a decorated World War II combat veteran.

Read more: Florida voter purge fight escalates - POLITICO.com
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As the link notes, however, this issue is more than simply cleaning up the legal voter list. While I believe Gov. Scott is wrong to deprive citizens their right to vote, the Obama administration, specifically DHS, is wrong to deny access to the SAVE database as noted in the link.
 
Not sure why all the "sky if falling" rhetoric is being spewed. This process isn't an instant purge. You get notified that you're on the potential purge list. If it's in error, you have 30 days to provide the proof otherwise. Even if you move and never get the notice, you can still vote. You show up, you discover you're removed from the rolls. You can still cast a provisional ballot in which you have 48 hours to provide the documentation needed for your vote to count.

Another thing, you keep seeing the bits about elligible voters purged, what about the ones that aren't elligible.

According to the Miami-Dade Elections Department, 1,637 people were flagged as "non-citizens" in that county, which has a large Latino community. At least 359 people have since proven their citizenship, and the county has also identified an additional 26 people as citizens. Eighty-three people responded denying ineligibility but did not provide proof. Those people will be removed after 30 days from date of response if no proof is provided, and are currently listed as "awaiting final determination."
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So out of 1,637 people, it appears that 1,169 people in Miami-Dade county have illegally registered to vote.
 
Fishstyx said:
Not sure why all the "sky if falling" rhetoric is being spewed. This process isn't an instant purge. You get notified that you're on the potential purge list. If it's in error, you have 30 days to provide the proof otherwise.
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Next up, "You're under arrest. When you prove you are innocent, then you will be released". Sorry, but that isn't the way our government should work.
 
The hypocrisy in this thread would be astounding if I wasnt so used to it....As usual the far right spews the same nonesense that its only democrats that cheat on elections..and they conveniently ignore all the times republicans have been busted swindling elections.

Heres the simple truth...THEY BOTH CHEAT whenever they can.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with eliminating those not eligible to vote off the rolls...There is something wrong with the way rick scott has tried to do it and its been proven most of the names he provided for removal were legitimate...if he would have started the witch hunt for democrats when he first got elected, it might have been more palatable...but id bet the koch brothers and his benefactors the teaparty gave him his marching orders.
I voted for scott....He could never get my vote again for a variety of reasons...hes raised the cost of everything for consumers and citizens in fla...from Electricity increases...to HORRIFIC hurricane and property insurance increases...every thing he does is for the RICH and famous and business...Bring Back Jeb
 
Fishstyx said:
[...] Even if you move and never get the notice, you can still vote. You show up, you discover you're removed from the rolls. You can still cast a provisional ballot in which you have 48 hours to provide the documentation needed for your vote to count. [...]
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I'd have to see a link on that one. Even if you are correct, however, it is still an impediment to vote.

Fishstyx said:
[...]So out of 1,637 people, it appears that 1,169 people in Miami-Dade county have illegally registered to vote.
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I'd have to see a link on that one too, since 1,243 people in Miami-Dade did not respond (your math indicates that by not responding, they are illegally registered). See the graphic in The Bizarre and Confusing Standoff Between Florida and DOJ Over Voter Purging | The Nation

Reversing the Miami-Dade math (1638 minus 1243 minus 385) and assuming the figures provided in the graphic are correct, they have
positively identified 10 people that were either illegally registered to vote or claimed they were (responded) but failed to produce any evidence. And they have
positively mis-identified 385 people that have proven they are legally registered to vote.
 
Karl said:
I'd have to see a link on that one. Even if you are correct, however, it is still an impediment to vote.


I'd have to see a link on that one too, since 1,243 people in Miami-Dade did not respond (your math indicates that by not responding, they are illegally registered). See the graphic in The Bizarre and Confusing Standoff Between Florida and DOJ Over Voter Purging | The Nation

Reversing the Miami-Dade math (1638 minus 1243 minus 385) and assuming the figures provided in the graphic are correct, they have
positively identified 10 people that were either illegally registered to vote or claimed they were (responded) but failed to produce any evidence. And they have
positively mis-identified 385 people that have proven they are legally registered to vote.
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Still doesn't really matter. If they are truly elligible, even with the "purge," they can still vote under FL's provisional ballot provision. This doesn't disenfranchise anyone. And its not a impediment as you'll still vote on election day. This boils down to maintaining a current address with your voter registration. I've moved well over a dozen times since I was 18 and update my FL voter registration each time.

If you are challenged on any other grounds or your eligibility is questioned, you will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot.
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You will be provided a written notice of your rights as a provisional ballot voter. (Section 101.048, F.S.) You have the right to present further evidence of your eligibility if you want up to 2 days after the election. Depending on the reason why you voted a provisional ballot, there may no further need in order for your provisional ballot to count:

If the reason you voted a provisional ballot is solely because you did not provide an acceptable photo and signature identification at the polls, you do not need to provide any further evidence of your eligibility in order for your ballot to count. The local canvassing board will simply compare your signature on the provisional ballot certificate with the signature on your voter registration record. If the signatures match, your provisional ballot will be counted.

If you vote a provisional ballot for other reasons (for example, your eligibility is challenged by another person, you are in the wrong precinct when you vote, you do not appear on the precinct register, etc.), you have the opportunity to bring in evidence to your respective supervisor of elections no later than 5 p.m., of the second day following the election. (Section 101.048, F.S.) The local canvassing board will examine your provisional ballot certificate, and any and all other information and evidence, if anything is available. The board must count your provisional ballot unless the board determines, based on preponderance of the evidence, that you are not entitled to vote.
Frequently Asked Questions - Florida Division of Elections - Department of State
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Rising Sun said:
Next up, "You're under arrest. When you prove you are innocent, then you will be released". Sorry, but that isn't the way our government should work.
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Nonsensical. You can't even compare being arrested and having to prove innocence with having to provide proof your're who you say you are and elligible to vote in the US. No incarceration.

Presumption of innocence exist in the US consitution via provisions in the Bill of Rights. The Consitution allows states to devise laws which determine voter elligibility as long as they don't interfere with Amendments forbidding discrimination by sex, race, age, religion, etc.
 
Fishstyx said:
Nonsensical. You can't even compare being arrested and having to prove innocence with having to provide proof your're who you say you are and elligible to vote in the US.
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Yes, I can. Those voters have a right to vote. Depriving them of that right because of a net cast too wide is the responsibility of the state to fix, not the individual American citizen wrongly affected.
 
Read this morning that the State of Florida purged 53,000 dead voters from their roles.
 
Rising Sun said:
Yes, I can. Those voters have a right to vote. Depriving them of that right because of a net cast too wide is the responsibility of the state to fix, not the individual American citizen wrongly affected.
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No. It is not. The state has every right to establish protocols by which they verify eligibility to vote. Of course folks will show up that are legal voters, but whom for some reason, their info is not properly on file. The State's only obligation is to provide a reasonable remedy.

Florida is doing its job. The legal voters of Florida are fine with this.
 
Fishstyx said:
Still doesn't really matter. If they are truly elligible, even with the "purge," they can still vote under FL's provisional ballot provision. This doesn't disenfranchise anyone. And its not a impediment [...]
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Of course it's an impediment -- it's an extra hoop to jump thru. If 1,000 perfectly eligible people are forced to vote a provisional ballot, then return with proof that they are eligible, then a certain percentage of those people will not jump thru that extra hoop and not return to validate their vote, even though their vote may be perfectly valid.

That the vast majority of these voters happen to vote Democrat is a mere coincidence :lamo

Just make everyone vote a provisional ballot and make them all come back within 2 days to verify their citizenship. After all, it's not an impediment . . . . . .
 
Eighty Deuce said:
No. It is not. The state has every right to establish protocols by which they verify eligibility to vote. [...]
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So it would seem. Example:

Democrat? Not eligible to vote. :mrgreen:

Also:

In a letter released on Thursday, the federal government claimed that Scott’s purge violates the 1965 Voting Rights Act — which requires the state to seek federal approval of its campaign — and the National Voter Registration Act. That measure says that “a State shall complete, not later than 90 days prior to the date of a primary or general election for Federal office, any program the purpose of which is to systematically remove the names of ineligible voters from the official lists of eligible voters.” As a result, Florida should have finished the process by May 16.
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Rising Sun said:
Yes, I can. Those voters have a right to vote. Depriving them of that right because of a net cast too wide is the responsibility of the state to fix, not the individual American citizen wrongly affected.
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No one has been "deprived" their right to vote. There are provisions in place for someone who is incorrectly removed from the rolls. Not sure why this isn't getting through to some on here. Even if they haven't responded for whatever reason to notification of being purged, they can still show up on election day an vote. They just have to provide proof of their eligibility. This information is not secret and given as part of the training for poll workers. Not sure why this is such a monumental ordeal. Its no more difficult than going to the corner store and buying a six pack of beer. You need an ID to buy it right?

Karl said:
Of course it's an impediment -- it's an extra hoop to jump thru. If 1,000 perfectly eligible people are forced to vote a provisional ballot, then return with proof that they are eligible, then a certain percentage of those people will not jump thru that extra hoop and not return to validate their vote, even though their vote may be perfectly valid.

That the vast majority of these voters happen to vote Democrat is a mere coincidence :lamo

Just make everyone vote a provisional ballot and make them all come back within 2 days to verify their citizenship. After all, it's not an impediment . . . . . .
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If they bring the information that makes them eligible, then they don't have to return. They've been notified of the purge, given time to respond and validate their eligibility. There is system in place that they can still cast their vote on election day.

So what you're saying, someone might get frustrated and say its not worth coming back? If thats the case, they don't take their right to vote seriously and I say say screw em!
 
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