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Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

I think catholics should be sued for the holocaust, crusades, inquisition, and pedophilia.
 
Diogenes said:
Do you concede that a check made out to Notre Dame Health Services or St. Paul Hospital is not an attempt to establish a religion (as forbidden by the Constitution) as long as that check is payment for services to persons covered under Medicare or Medicaid?
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You tell me if they're a Church or a non-profit organization and I'll answer your question. Please note that if they're a non-profit organization then any reference to "Church" or "religion" does not apply and no special compensations, rules, laws, or exceptions will be allowed on those grounds.
 
Tigger said:
So because I do not simply allow the Government to continue picking my pocket in order to pay for UnConstitutional expenditures my opinion on this topic is not worthy of being heard? Interesting.
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If I'm colorblind and can't see the red part of the spectrum then any opinion I have on whether something is brick red or blood red is pretty inconsequential, isn't it?!?

Your beliefs about health care says neither option should exist at all.
That leads me to conclude that any opinion you may voice is complete fiction on your part.
 
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99percenter said:
I think catholics should be sued for the holocaust, crusades, inquisition, and pedophilia.
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Well, if you're around long enough, you're going to have some warts. However, while I agree they should be held accountable for the pedophilia today, we should also not forget along with those warts are some genuine good deeds. Criticize where criticism is due. And praise where praise is due.
 
Tigger said:
I disagree, Boo. If the government truly steps up and suggests that these Christian Churches (they're not all Catholic) have to either divorce themselves from the teachings of tee Faith that runs them or shut their doors I truly believe that you will see AT LEAST 60% of them shut their doors. At least long enough to re-license themselves as clinics or other PRIVATE CARE facilities that would not be subject to the Government regulations.
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If you provide health care in this nation, you will be subject to government regulation. Maybe not at the same level as a full-on hospital but nevertheless - regulations.


Here is Florida we have had way too many of these "private clinics" caught committing various crimes and medical malpractice. No matter the profession, there will always be some sociopaths who will take advantage of others.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, a hospital is a hospital. There is no preaching. Doctors are not clergy and nurses are not nuns. In fact, a number of those who work there don't even hold that particular faith, and a smaller number don't believe at all. It is a hospital.
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But that doesn't really matter on the issue being discussed. Should a hospital be obligated to provide services or insurance coverage for all things which are legal procedures, regardless of whether or not the hospital is church-owned? Should I, as an RN, be obligated to work in an environment where abortions are provided, when I believe they are morally wrong? Should I be obligated to pull the plug on a ventilated patient if I am opposed to passive euthanasia (which I am not, btw)?

Hospitals provide services for customers. These services may include those which some customers may be morally opposed to, or they may not provide some services that some customers desire. This doesn't mean that government-funded health insurance should be withheld, based solely on services which may or may not be provided.
 
lizzie said:
But that doesn't really matter on the issue being discussed. Should a hospital be obligated to provide services or insurance coverage for all things which are legal procedures, regardless of whether or not the hospital is church-owned? Should I, as an RN, be obligated to work in an environment where abortions are provided, when I believe they are morally wrong? Should I be obligated to pull the plug on a ventilated patient if I am opposed to passive euthanasia (which I am not, btw)?

Hospitals provide services for customers. These services may include those which some customers may be morally opposed to, or they may not provide some services that some customers desire. This doesn't mean that government-funded health insurance should be withheld, based solely on services which may or may not be provided.
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I can't make you be a nurse. Nor can I make anyone perform an abortion. But there are those who do, and they are available.

It's kind of like the pharmacist who doesn't want to fill prescriptions. If you're morally opposed, don't take the job.

However, abortion isn't what we're talking about. No one is being forced to have an abortion or even to give an abortion. The issue here is insurance coverage covering BC. This is reasonable. And shame on the church for even being against it.
 
Boo Radley said:
I can't make you be a nurse. Nor can I make anyone perform an abortion. But there are those who do, and they are available.

It's kind of like the pharmacist who doesn't want to fill prescriptions. If you're morally opposed, don't take the job.

However, abortion isn't what we're talking about. No one is being forced to have an abortion or even to give an abortion. The issue here is insurance coverage covering BC. This is reasonable. And shame on the church for even being against it.
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Not shame on them for being against it. Their moral code is every bit as reasonable as your own, just based on a different perception of values.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Your beliefs about health care says neither option should exist at all. That leads me to conclude that any opinion you may voice is complete fiction on your part.
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Why would you suggest that my viewpoint on this is complete fiction? The idea that the Government has no place getting involved in the healthcare industry is not one held only by me. Health services are a PERSONAL and PRIVATE matter. They are not something the Government has any Constitutional mandate to be involved in at all.
 
Somerville said:
If you provide health care in this nation, you will be subject to government regulation. Maybe not at the same level as a full-on hospital but nevertheless - regulations.
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Which is probably part of why I would never be involved in the healthcare field and why I do my damndest to stay away from hospitals, doctors, etc... as much as possible.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, if you're around long enough, you're going to have some warts. However, while I agree they should be held accountable for the pedophilia today, we should also not forget along with those warts are some genuine good deeds. Criticize where criticism is due. And praise where praise is due.
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Good deeds. Are you serious? What have they done that is exactly good except try to conquer the whole world? You don't become the world's largest religion by being good.
 
Tigger said:
Why would you suggest that my viewpoint on this is complete fiction? The idea that the Government has no place getting involved in the healthcare industry is not one held only by me. Health services are a PERSONAL and PRIVATE matter. They are not something the Government has any Constitutional mandate to be involved in at all.
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LOL! You just confirmed what I said, thank you.

Since you believe the government should not be involved in any way with health care then this entire discussion is beyond your purview. Regardless of which side one takes in this discussion, the government or the Church, one is still talking about government and health care - of which you have no opinion. Like I said, you can't talk about shades of red if you can't see any red at all. To you there is no issue - it's ALL completely wrong.
 
tecoyah said:
Personally, I wish the Church WOULD bet out of the Hospital business...they corrupt Medicine. If they run a hospital, I am paying them every time someone on Medicaid/Medicare steps through the door, and the Federal Government is quite obviously subsidizing said Hospital as they do for most.
If the Catholic Church wishes to ignore federal law...it will need to stop accepting Federal funds and turn the Hospital into a Church.
They cannot have it both ways...that is unfair, and unconstitutional.
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lizzie said:
Corrupt medicine? In what way? They provide a service, just as any other medical facility does. Should they be required to provide abortion services, solely because it's legal?
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tecoyah said:
"When Hospitals and Doctors Play God
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These hospital mergers also raise important concerns about the separation of church and state, since billions of government dollars go to institutions that deny women and men a critical aspect of their health care."[/I]
When Hospitals and Doctors Play God - Los Angeles Times

This was just attempted in My city....fortunately the Governor stopped it.
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MoSurveyor said:
If they want government money then they need to leave the Bible at the door.
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It seems to me that what we have here is a very clear case of government corrupting medicine, with attempts to put the blame on a religious organization for this corruption.
 
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Bob Blaylock said:
It seems to me that what we have here is a very clear case of government corrupting medicine, with attempts to put the blame on a religious organization for this corruption.
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We all know that you and your kind would rather us all be held hostage by the insurance industry.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
It seems to me that what we have here is a very clear case of government corrupting medicine, with attempts to put the blame on a religious organization for this corruption.
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Very well said. That's the problem in a nutshell.

From Wiki's definition of Ressentiment:
Ressentiment is a reassignment of the pain that accompanies a sense of one's own inferiority/failure onto an external scapegoat. The ego creates the illusion of an enemy, a cause that can be "blamed" for one's own inferiority/failure. Thus, one was thwarted not by a failure in oneself, but rather by an external "evil."
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There is a lot of that coming from the left on this issue.
 
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MoSurveyor said:
We all know that you and your kind would rather us all be held hostage by the insurance industry.
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You and your kind prefer being held hostage by unelected bureaucrats?
 
Diogenes said:
You and your kind prefer being held hostage by unelected bureaucrats?
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How much money do the insurance companies have to gain - how much do they make right now?!? - in health care? And over the past 40 years how have things gotten better, exactly?!? How much does health care cost now compared to then and how has that effected insurance company profits?

And how much will the bureaucrat's salary change over these issues? How much has it changed in the past 40 years?

The insurance company has every reason to continue soaking us for all they can get.

The bureaucrat has no stake in the game to speak of so I'll place my bet there, thanks.
 
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lizzie said:
If the government doesn't want their money going to Church-based hospitals, then I guess they should restrict the insured from seeking care in those facilities. Just because abortion is legal, and the government has deemed that people have a "right" to having their birth control or abortions funded, doesn't imply that Catholic or any other church-based hospital should have to provide those services. It's like saying that a children's hospital must provide services to adults, because adults have rights to health care.
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I agree.

Those that want the Catholic hospitals to "give over and give in" to the gov't, also want the hospitals to continue to operate.
 
iguanaman said:
No wonder the Catholic church is losing members daily.
They are fast becoming history and it won't be the 1st time an organization failed to keep up with the times and disappears.
RIP
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I hope you are right. At least no women will be Catholic.
 
MoSurveyor said:
How much money do the insurance companies have to gain - how much do they make right now?!? - in health care? And over the past 40 years how have things gotten better, exactly?!? How much does health care cost now compared to then and how has that effected insurance company profits?
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Health care costs (and health insurance costs) have been rising rapidly for the last 50 years, neatly tracking with the additional burdens of government regulation and mandates. Every time the government makes something "free" the cost goes up.

And how much will the bureaucrat's salary change over these issues? How much has it changed in the past 40 years?
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Government programs never solve social problems, they only guarantee that those problems will continue. After all, if they did solve the problem, the bureaucrats would be out of work.

The insurance company has every reason to continue soaking us for all they can get.
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Absolutely. The only cure for that is competition. Just look at how much money the property owners in Wisconsin are saving now that the school districts can buy health insurance from someplace besides the teachers union trust.

The bureaucrat has no stake in the game to speak of so I'll place my bet there, thanks.
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Your apparent belief - that everyone in private business is greedy, selfish and downright evil, while all bureaucrats are saintly and selfless public employees dedicated to serving the public interest - is nothing sort of astonishing. Good luck when you take your turn before the Death Panels.
 
Navy Pride said:
It could definitely take some votes away from Hussein Obama in November..............Catholics and Hispanics will defintely be affected.........
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Will romney win the latino vote? He is latino after all.
 
lizzie said:
Not shame on them for being against it. Their moral code is every bit as reasonable as your own, just based on a different perception of values.
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Yes, shame on them. We no longer need tons of babies and large families like we could argue for once upon a time. You should hear nuns from time to time. Was speaking a wild back to a nun who have just returned to the states from working over seas. She, a Catholic nun, argued at our church that women would never be free with BC. Lots o people hold beliefs that are harmful. And it is fair to call one that is what it is, a shame.
 
99percenter said:
Good deeds. Are you serious? What have they done that is exactly good except try to conquer the whole world? You don't become the world's largest religion by being good.
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You might want to investigate more. I don't see it as my job to derail this threat too much and educate on this subject. But finding the information isn't hard. As your here, I believe you must be computer literate. And as you live somewhere, there whould be some Catholics never you doing a lot of work.
 
Boo Radley said:
I can't make you be a nurse. Nor can I make anyone perform an abortion. But there are those who do, and they are available.

It's kind of like the pharmacist who doesn't want to fill prescriptions. If you're morally opposed, don't take the job.

However, abortion isn't what we're talking about. No one is being forced to have an abortion or even to give an abortion. The issue here is insurance coverage covering BC. This is reasonable. And shame on the church for even being against it.
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Shame on them indeed. They cover viagra but won't cover contraception for women. I think the catholic church is just being antiwomen.
 
Tigger said:
You do realize that under your concept, a large portion of the hospitals in this country would close their doors tomorrow, right?
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What a Christian way to act...
 
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