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Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

majora$$hole said:
hey i'm willing to get a lesson on not paying federal taxes that would help a lot. i think it's something like a 1/4 of my check goes to the federal income tax.
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File for a refund if you are making less than 40k a year. I am not going to sit here an explain tax laws to you because you want to derail a subject religion and birth control. irs.gov is a start. good luck and have a nice day.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
that is pretty much what his logic leads to. he keeps yapping about tax issues, then compares a religious organization, made up of tax payers, to, wait for it.... tax payers as individuals.... but says the organization of tax payers is exempt, meaning, from what I gather, the government should be able to dictate to it or something, there his "logic" loses me. I bet he'll also be one of those "corporations aren't peoplez".....

See his simplistic disconnect? :ssst:
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I see...you have the uncanny ability to extrapolate the thoughts of others to conclusion.

Unfortunately, you begin what you term "Logic", by removing the snippets you wish from context. Added to this is the obvious pre-decided outcome, and your seemingly feeble grasp of the "Logic" you seem to fixated on.

Now , I remember why I have avoided you....good luck.
 
tecoyah said:
I think you either do not understand what logic entails....or lack general comprehension depth.
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Actually your yammering is confusing, are churches "people", or are people, people, people, who pay taxes already. What is your argument? do you even have one? how do you support a one way violation of the 1st amendment for the purpose of forcing a religious organization to fund that which they are against?

do you have an answer you would like to share, or hurling silly attacks all you have?
 
tecoyah said:
I see...you have the uncanny ability to extrapolate the thoughts of others to conclusion.

Unfortunately, you begin what you term "Logic", by removing the snippets you wish from context. Added to this is the obvious pre-decided outcome, and your seemingly feeble grasp of the "Logic" you seem to fixated on.

Now , I remember why I have avoided you....good luck.
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Oh wait, you are going to hurl an insult, then run away crying about how you ignore me again? Funny how you seem to find a way to keep replying to me, don't let the door hit ya kid, I never notice either way. :shrug:
 
majora$$hole said:
nope i just don't think the church has any right telling the state what laws it can pass and what laws it can't pass when they pay no taxes. are you serious i thought you were for separation of church and state.
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The church is suing the state over an infringment of religious rights; that's that the state's attempt to enforce a birth control mandate is against the teachings and practice of the Catholic Church. The People, some of whom belong to the Catholic Church, are protected against religious laws via the 1st Amendment.
 
muciti said:
I am not sure about that. Most catholics I know oppose gay marriage. But then again i dont know them all.
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But we do having polling information conocerning contracptions. The numbers have varied, but most if not all show most Catholics are fine with contraceptions.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
given that my yapping refutes your "argument", shredding your nonsense, and yours is just jibber jabber, I'll take it as a win. The separation of church and state goes both ways, the FEDGOV is constitutionally prohibited of interfering with thier free exercise there of. You can't compell them to do something you agree with, just cause, bro.
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same can be said about the state i'm sure you don't agree with everything it makes you do. and i have yet to see how your yapping refutes or shreds anything and it matters not what jibber jabber you spew it will not change that fact. so ha!!
 
Boo Radley said:
But we do having polling information conocerning contracptions. The numbers have varied, but most if not all show most Catholics are fine with contraceptions.
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that's between catholics and thier church, not the state and the church, it's a red herring and a moot point. again.
 
muciti said:
File for a refund if you are making less than 40k a year. I am not going to sit here an explain tax laws to you because you want to derail a subject religion and birth control. irs.gov is a start. good luck and have a nice day.
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thanks for nothing.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Utter nonsense.... The healthcare is a benefit, they cannot tell the employer. "no thank you, I'd like to take the cash instead". The church does not want it's money going to things its against. You as a statist have no problem pissing on the constitution if it goes your way.

:shrug:
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The benefit is compensation. And in some cases some employers do let you take cash instead (we did that here for a few years). It is compensation for work. Not a gift. It is negotiated as comepnsation. Sorry rev, but you're just wring on this. Agian, go ask your employer.
 
majora$$hole said:
same can be said about the state i'm sure you don't agree with everything it makes you do. and i have yet to see how your yapping refutes or shreds anything and it matters not what jibber jabber you spew it will not change that fact. so ha!!
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please google the 1st amendment, then come back to the conversation, it seems you wish to ignore one of the founding tenents, that liberals love to tout when it benefits them, of this amendment....

let me know when you have caught up. Thanks.
 
Boo Radley said:
The benefit is compensation. And in some cases some employers do let you take cash instead (we did that here for a few years). It is compensation for work. Not a gift. It is negotiated as comepnsation. Sorry rev, but you're just wring on this. Agian, go ask your employer.
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The Good Reverend is an employer, not an employee. You keep saying the same thing, as if the more times you say it it becomes true. You said yourself, the church does not have to offer HC plans, so if they CHOOSE to, it is not the business of the state to tell them it must cover something they do not support. This is where you fail. Read the constitution sometime.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
please google the 1st amendment, then come back to the conversation, it seems you wish to ignore one of the founding tenents, that liberals love to tout when it benefits them, of this amendment....

let me know when you have caught up. Thanks.
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you need to reread it yourself.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
please google the 1st amendment, then come back to the conversation, it seems you wish to ignore one of the founding tenents, that liberals love to tout when it benefits them, of this amendment....

let me know when you have caught up. Thanks.
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1st amendment has nothing to do with. The employees we speak of are not clergy, and not doing religious work. The church has ventrued out side the church, and when they do that, they are not protected.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
The Good Reverend is an employer, not an employee. You keep saying the same thing, as if the more times you say it it becomes true. You said yourself, the church does not have to offer HC plans, so if they CHOOSE to, it is not the business of the state to tell them it must cover something they do not support. This is where you fail. Read the constitution sometime.
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Then you should know better. Emplyers also choose what salary they pay for the job, and all kinds of other compensation. All of it is for the work and not by the goodness of their hearts. Sorry.
 
Boo Radley said:
1st amendment has nothing to do with. The employees we speak of are not clergy, and not doing religious work. The church has ventrued out side the church, and when they do that, they are not protected.
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Ahh so will you be forcing jewish and muslim charities to serve pork, I mean after all, they are employees, not clergy, and who they help, them to, as they stepped outside thier "churches"... right?

while we are at it, we should force catholic hospitals to perform elective abortions, after all they are "employees" not "clergy"......


Your logic fails at ALL levels.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Ahh so will you be forcing jewish and muslim charities to serve pork, I mean after all, they are employees, not clergy, and who they help, them to, as they stepped outside thier "churches"... right?

while we are at it, we should force catholic hospitals to perform elective abortions, after all they are "employees" not "clergy"......


Your logic fails at ALL levels.
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They do in their secular businesses. People who are not Jewish or Muslim who work for businesses they own, do on occassion eat pork.

And doctors and nurses at Catholic hospitals do perfrom things not accepted by the church. You shoudl go work at one for awhile.
 
American said:
The church is suing the state over an infringment of religious rights; that's that the state's attempt to enforce a birth control mandate is against the teachings and practice of the Catholic Church. The People, some of whom belong to the Catholic Church, are protected against religious laws via the 1st Amendment.
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If there were an attempt to discriminate against religion, I would be on your side...but, it is not.

This is a case of said Religion, asking for special treatment under federal law. The Catholic Church wishes to exempted from this law and has decided to sue the Fed to rectify a non-existent issue.

The Church does not provide BC...insurance does.

Then there is this:

" 58% of all Catholics agree employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception. That slides down to 52% for Catholic voters, 50% for white Catholics.
61% of religiously unaffiliated Americans say employer plans should cover contraception.
50%of white mainline Protestants want the coverage. However, for evangelical Protestants, that drops to 38%.

And perhaps of greater note among election-watchers:

Women are significantly more likely than men to agree that employers should be required to provide health care plans that cover contraception (62% vs. 47% respectively)."
New surveys: Catholics want birth control coverage
 
Boo Radley said:
Then you should know better. Emplyers also choose what salary they pay for the job, and all kinds of other compensation. All of it is for the work and not by the goodness of their hearts. Sorry.
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yes, compensation, in pay and benefits you are changing your story now, as you called it "pay".... my HR department decides on the plans we offer and deals with it, we could freely choose, I believe, to have a policy that covers massage and tatttoo removal, but I don't think we do.

I would choose not to cover anything elective, except maybe help an employee have a kid or something, I'll have to look into that....


But thanks for the business lecture, teach, I sure got a chuckle out of it.... :mrgreen:
 
Boo Radley said:
They do in their secular businesses. People who are not Jewish or Muslim who work for businesses they own, do on occassion eat pork.

And doctors and nurses at Catholic hospitals do perfrom things not accepted by the church. You shoudl go work at one for awhile.
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and here comes the Boo Radley shuffle..... If you really want to make that your point, I wont stop you, but it's pretty sad..... :lol: you are asking that the organization provide said pork, after all it's "pay". :roll:
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
yes, compensation, in pay and benefits you are changing your story now, as you called it "pay".... my HR department decides on the plans we offer and deals with it, we could freely choose, I believe, to have a policy that covers massage and tatttoo removal, but I don't think we do.

I would choose not to cover anything elective, except maybe help an employee have a kid or something, I'll have to look into that....


But thanks for the business lecture, teach, I sure got a chuckle out of it.... :mrgreen:
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I'm not changing anything. I use the word compensatin most often. That incudes pay and benefits. Both pay and benefits are comepnsation, and both are for the work rendered and no other reason. And yes, you have choices, but you are not exempt from any thing mandatory. Nor are hospitals, which are not churches. Doctors are not cleregy. Nor are nurses or mantiance nor housekeeping. The compensation is the employees. They are the ones who choose how to use that compensation.

You should try to learn more. I'll give you the best lectures I have, but eventually, you should do some reading. ;)
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
and here comes the Boo Radley shuffle..... If you really want to make that your point, I wont stop you, but it's pretty sad..... :lol: you are asking that the organization provide said pork, after all it's "pay". :roll:
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No, I said no such thing. I said, their employees do eat pork, and a business own by such people do serve pork. The business is not a church and is not covered by any exemption.
 
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