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Faculty leaving University in droves over statement they must sign [W:89]

Bob Blaylock said:
It seems that there ought to be an extension of Godwin's Law, that applies to gratuitous comparisons with the Taliban and other instances of extreme radical forms of Islam. Such comparisons are certainly becoming more common these days than Hitler/Nazi references are, for the purpose that Godwin's Law was intended to address.
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I agree with this statement, however I do not agree with Mr Blaylock's sig.
 
DiAnna said:
And so it begins... :lol:

Seriously, by this time people should understand that if they work for any institution... hospital, university, etc. ... that is religiously controlled, that control will eventually be forced upon them, whether they want it or not.
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Yeeesss. But I think the point is, the stupidity it takes to require such an agreement.
 
Ikari said:
Actions and consequences, yes? The school tried to enforce a new contract and lost the vast majority of its teachers in the process which will severely hurt its ability to teach.
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Nah, not so much. Obama has ensured plenty of unemployed people out there that can't do, so they will teach.

J-mac

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
justabubba said:
and who said sharia law would not come to the US
clearly, our own version is alive and healthy in GA
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Right.
Have you ever been to Rome, Ga?
That's were Shorter is, which is about 30 minutes from my home.

I've yet to see the Americanized version of "sharia law."
I swear, the idiotic post level in this place is over 9000 this spring.
 
Your Star said:
Actually the school is hurting from this, so no it didn't work out to everyone's benefit. School should have thought of this before implementing such a rule.
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Rome is sort of a college town, there is also Berry, Georgia Highlands and Georgia Northwestern.
And not far away from those are, KSU, JSU and several other schools, which don't have that policy.

Shorter screws itself.
They make stupid rules, they now pay the price.
That's the market in action.
 
Somerville said:
Faculty leaving University in droves over statement they must sign

A small Baptist school in Georgia has recently required its faculty members to sign a statement that would cause them to swear to behaving in a certain way

One of those who has not resigned is the librarian, Mr Wilson. He's gay and he crossed out the line "I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality." when he signed the doctrinal behaviour statement. He does not expect to keep his position at the school and has already sent his resume to several other colleges.
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If you're not willing to support the Baptist lifestyle then you probably shouldn't be teaching at a Baptist school anyway.

And they're not "leaving". Their contracts are up. They just aren't coming back. Nice to see yet another OP who lies.
 
Jerry said:
And they're not "leaving". Their contracts are up. They just aren't coming back. Nice to see yet another OP who lies.
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More than 50 resigned before the new contracts even came up to be signed, let alone were enacted. They are actually expecting more to follow who just won't be renewing their contracts due to this morality statement.

So yes they are leaving. The OP did not lie.
 
roguenuke said:
More than 50 resigned before the new contracts even came up to be signed, let alone were enacted. They are actually expecting more to follow who just won't be renewing their contracts due to this morality statement.

So yes they are leaving. The OP did not lie.
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And there will likely be others to take their place.

Freedom of choice, when kept within the law and as long as academic standards are met, is a good thing.

It seems that leftists get panicky whenever Christians want to exercise their rights.
 
Grant said:
And there will likely be others to take their place.

Freedom of choice, when kept within the law and as long as academic standards are met, is a good thing.

It seems that leftists get panicky whenever Christians want to exercise their rights.
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Who's panicky? I don't care if they want to make their school more in line with their values. That's fine and completely within their rights.

I just don't understand the need to do something like this which is very likely to lower their academic standards. There are plenty of people to fill job positions. That doesn't mean there are plenty of qualified people to fill the position of college professor and who are willing to abide by the policies of the school. This will likely hurt the college more than it will those teachers.

And it is also likely that it will hurt their student admissions as well. It may not be nearly on the same level as the teachers leaving, but there are most likely students who liked those teachers and disagree with why they have to leave to the point where they may look into transferring to another, more tolerant school.
 
Grant said:
And there will likely be others to take their place.

Freedom of choice, when kept within the law and as long as academic standards are met, is a good thing.

It seems that leftists get panicky whenever Christians want to exercise their rights.
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Problem is that the only way in which leftists generally understand the phrase “Freedom of choice” has to do with killing innocent children, and the “freedom” to do so. When you start talking about people and organizations having freedom to make other choices, such as the one that is the subject of this thread, leftists tend to get very panicky.
 
roguenuke said:
Who's panicky?
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It was a socialist who started the thread and was upset about what's happening. Others of the same political persuasion agreed.
I don't care if they want to make their school more in line with their values. That's fine and completely within their rights.
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That's pretty much what I said.

I just don't understand the need to do something like this which is very likely to lower their academic standards.
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Or increase them. We don't know.
 
Grant said:
It was a socialist who started the thread and was upset about what's happening. Others of the same political persuasion agreed.
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The majority on this thread have said "it is their right but it is stupid of them to do this".

Grant said:
That's pretty much what I said.
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This is what most have said here.

Grant said:
Or increase them. We don't know.
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Likely, it will lower their standards. If there were better teachers out there, then they likely would have tried to get them onboard to teach in their college prior to this.

Plus, we are talking about people with advanced degrees that they need. Something like this mass exodus of teachers is going to likely get the attention of the Dept of Ed and whatever accreditation board is responsible for them. Losing that many staff members in so short of time can easily put their accreditation in jeopardy.

It is possible that this could benefit them. It is much more likely that this will hurt them though.
 
roguenuke said:
The majority on this thread have said "it is their right but it is stupid of them to do this".
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You mean a bunch of looney lefties and their sock puppet accounts?

This is what most have said here.


roguenuke said:
Likely, it will lower their standards.
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Like affirmative racism,er, like affirmative action?

roguenuke said:
Plus, we are talking about people with advanced degrees that they need. Something like this mass exodus of teachers is going to likely get the attention of the Dept of Ed and whatever accreditation board is responsible for them. Losing that many staff members in so short of time can easily put their accreditation in jeopardy.
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You obviously know jack **** about college or accredation. Wrost case is that it's harder to graduate in 3/4 years. Little else.
roguenuke said:
It is possible that this could benefit them. It is much more likely that this will hurt them though.
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since must gay-agenda pushers aren't interested in education anyway, only brain washing, it can only be good to purge the gay bigots.
 
vendur said:
Like affirmative racism,er, like affirmative action?
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Which has nothing to do with this discussion, but for the record, I am against affirmative action.

vendur said:
You obviously know jack **** about college or accredation. Wrost case is that it's harder to graduate in 3/4 years. Little else.
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No, apparently it is possible that losing that many staff members at once could affect the accreditation.

Could controversy affect Shorter University's accreditation? | 11alive.com

And there is definitely a chance that they could lose more staff members within the next few months and a chance that they might have difficulty replacing those faculty members they have already lost. These are all things the accreditation board will consider.
 
Grant said:
And there will likely be others to take their place.

Freedom of choice, when kept within the law and as long as academic standards are met, is a good thing.

It seems that leftists get panicky whenever Christians want to exercise their rights.
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As a leftist Christian, I believe the school is entirely within their rights. First, religious institutions do have the right to discriminate against employing people of other faiths. Second, many, many employers have morals clauses within their employment contracts. It so happens that a private Baptist University's morals clause is going to be a little tighter. Rightfully so. You can not condemn homosexuality or adultery at the pulpit and then turn around and so your hypocrisy by hiring one as a professor.

This is one of the prime examples of why we want a separation of church and state; certainly the moral standard of a Baptist church (or any church) is going to be higher than the legal standard. We want that (what is objectionable is trying to make law out of moral standards). We have to respect the right of this university to be true to itself and insist on that higher standard, which is to hire only practicing God-fearing Baptists.
 
upsideguy said:
As a leftist Christian, I believe the school is entirely within their rights. First, religious institutions do have the right to discriminate against employing people of other faiths. Second, many, many employers have morals clauses within their employment contracts. It so happens that a private Baptist University's morals clause is going to be a little tighter. Rightfully so. You can not condemn homosexuality or adultery at the pulpit and then turn around and so your hypocrisy by hiring one as a professor.

This is one of the prime examples of why we want a separation of church and state; certainly the moral standard of a Baptist church (or any church) is going to be higher than the legal standard. We want that (what is objectionable is trying to make law out of moral standards). We have to respect the right of this university to be true to itself and insist on that higher standard, which is to hire only practicing God-fearing Baptists.
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I think the problem comes with implementing these rules after the fact. Which is what happened in this case.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
It seems that there ought to be an extension of Godwin's Law, that applies to gratuitous comparisons with the Taliban and other instances of extreme radical forms of Islam. Such comparisons are certainly becoming more common these days than Hitler/Nazi references are, for the purpose that Godwin's Law was intended to address.
Click to expand...

If someone wraps a swastika armband on their sleeve, marches in goose-step and shouts Sieg Heil while making a flat-handed salute, it is not breaking Godwin's Law to call them a Nazi.
 
Andalublue said:
If someone wraps a swastika armband on their sleeve, marches in goose-step and shouts Sieg Heil while making a flat-handed salute, it is not breaking Godwin's Law to call them a Nazi.
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When Shorter college attendants, board members, etc start going around with guns, forcing people to abide by their religious beliefs, killing resisters, etc.
The Christian Taliban comparison, will be acceptable.
 
roguenuke said:
Who's panicky? I don't care if they want to make their school more in line with their values. That's fine and completely within their rights.

I just don't understand the need to do something like this which is very likely to lower their academic standards.
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Um, because of....
roguenuke said:
...they want to make their school more in line with their values.
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Do you, or do you not care about their decision to get more in line with their values?

There are plenty of people to fill job positions.
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That is correct. So they should be fine.

That doesn't mean there are plenty of qualified people to fill the position of college professor and who are willing to abide by the policies of the school.
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Are you saying that the only qualified collage prof's are atheists? Or are you just saying that they are all libs that would not dane to teach in an institution that want's to get back to the basics so to speak in terms of the faith that school was founded on?

This will likely hurt the college more than it will those teachers.
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And I could say that it is equally 'likely' that it will make the collage stronger, and more desirable to attend. So you supposition is nonsense.

And it is also likely that it will hurt their student admissions as well.
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More nonsense.

It may not be nearly on the same level as the teachers leaving, but there are most likely students who liked those teachers and disagree with why they have to leave to the point where they may look into transferring to another, more tolerant school.
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What? Did the students forget that they were agreeing to attend a 139 year old Baptist University? My advice to the students that attend is that, go to what ever collage you wish, but make that decision based on the education provided for the money, NOT whether or not you "like" the teacher....

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Um, because of....

Do you, or do you not care about their decision to get more in line with their values?


Are you saying that the only qualified collage prof's are atheists? Or are you just saying that they are all libs that would not dane to teach in an institution that want's to get back to the basics so to speak in terms of the faith that school was founded on?

And I could say that it is equally 'likely' that it will make the collage stronger, and more desirable to attend. So you supposition is nonsense.

More nonsense.

What? Did the students forget that they were agreeing to attend a 139 year old Baptist University? My advice to the students that attend is that, go to what ever collage you wish, but make that decision based on the education provided for the money, NOT whether or not you "like" the teacher....

j-mac
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Getting "more in line with their (Georgia Baptist) values" has only taken place following a court fight that allowed church elders and not academics to control the school and its policies. Funny how for 130 years, they got along fine and its only been since the rise of the fundie-political types that we have started to see these disputes.

One "could say that it is equally 'likely' that it will make the collage stronger, and more desirable to attend. So you supposition is nonsense." While I could say that "you(sic)" supposition is wrong and biased toward supporting whatever those who you agree with politically would do in any and all instances, while at the same time actually making the "collage(sic)" weaker academically, unwilling to discuss controversial subjects in any shape, fashion, or form that does not mesh with the 'accepted' ideology.

As noted in the quote, the school is 139 years old. The change in doctrinal enforcement occurred in October 2011. Were the students and faculty supposed to be able to read the future? Isn't that against one of those biblical laws? Well it is, unless you are a 'chosen prophet'
 
dabateman said:
I think the problem comes with implementing these rules after the fact. Which is what happened in this case.
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Still within the rights of a private institution. Not much different than a Company re-writing its employee handbook, except this is a bit of that on steroids. However, I find no problem with a Baptist institution insisting that its doctrine be followed on and off the field.
 
Somerville said:
Faculty leaving University in droves over statement they must sign


A small Baptist school in Georgia has recently required its faculty members to sign a statement that would cause them to swear to behaving in a certain way



One of those who has not resigned is the librarian, Mr Wilson. He's gay and he crossed out the line "I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality." when he signed the doctrinal behaviour statement. He does not expect to keep his position at the school and has already sent his resume to several other colleges.
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The policy also discriminates against gay Americans. But in Georgia, it is legal for employers to discriminate against gays and lesbians. In February, representatives in Georgia voted to table a bill that would have extended protections to its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens.
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Baptist University's Anti-Gay Pledge Causes Faculty To Quit In Droves - Careers Articles

It'll be interesting to see what kind of graduates they produce in the future. They may be within their rights but they've also limited their choices for hiring strong educators.
 
j-mac said:
Um, because of....
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Because they just lost a large number of teachers because of a policy issue. They also have students who support those teachers and may just look for another college come next term. This is a double blow against them because now they need to find new teachers, who are willing to abide by their standards completely, and they may have to also worry about less money from students. Having a lower budget when you are searching to replace employees is not going to be a good thing.


j-mac said:
Do you, or do you not care about their decision to get more in line with their values?
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I don't believe it was necessary and that it will hurt them and their students' education.

j-mac said:
That is correct. So they should be fine.
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Except for the rest of that point. There are not a lot of college level professors looking for jobs.

j-mac said:
Are you saying that the only qualified collage prof's are atheists? Or are you just saying that they are all libs that would not dane to teach in an institution that want's to get back to the basics so to speak in terms of the faith that school was founded on?
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On the contrary, many of those teachers were actually Baptists. They say so on their site explaining their decision.

SaveOurShorter

j-mac said:
And I could say that it is equally 'likely' that it will make the collage stronger, and more desirable to attend. So you supposition is nonsense.
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It is not equally likely to make the college stronger if they are at risk of losing their accreditation or even just the quality of their teaching. College is mainly about teaching students academics, not about ensuring the staff follow certain religious beliefs.

j-mac said:
More nonsense.
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Not nonsense. There are many younger people who believe that getting a good education is more important than a University, even a religious one, from keeping their staff from believing as they wish and doing things that have no impact on their school or its reputation.

j-mac said:
What? Did the students forget that they were agreeing to attend a 139 year old Baptist University? My advice to the students that attend is that, go to what ever collage you wish, but make that decision based on the education provided for the money, NOT whether or not you "like" the teacher....
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Many of the students did not sign up to attend a school where their teachers are forced to give up their own values or hide just to be able to work. This "Lifestyle Statement" is a very new thing and never before existed in this way for this school.

If the students feel that they are not going to get the same level of education as they were before due to this or their parents feel this way, then it could certainly affect the students' decision to stay at or even go to that school.
 
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Somerville said:
Getting "more in line with their (Georgia Baptist) values" has only taken place following a court fight that allowed church elders and not academics to control the school and its policies. Funny how for 130 years, they got along fine and its only been since the rise of the fundie-political types that we have started to see these disputes.
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See, I view this in a different way. For some time now, as an example Notre Dame has been struggling with the secular representation sitting on their board of directors as well, as I suspect many of these religious based institutions of higher learning are finding increasing secular involvement is attempting to change their fundamental structure.

No real surprise that in this time of Obama's war on religion, that instances like this would crop up.

j-mac
 
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