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Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

Henrin said:
So basically you can't defend their ruling so you're deciding to fall back on their authority only. We have a name for that its called the appeal to authority fallacy.

And you have no idea who I am so discrediting me personally based on my qualifications that you haven't a clue about is not workable.
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what i dont get is why jefferson is used in court when madison authored the first amendment,and jefferson has stated multiple times he is not an authority with the constitution as he wasnt even in america during its ratification.

the technical authority on the bill of rights would be madison.
 
beerftw said:
that entire post was thrown so far out of context straw man doesnt even apply,maybe a straw giant.


next time try and argue against what i say not a distorted view of what you think i meant:)
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I did.

beerftw said:
well yesif it is done by the school or any part of govt,yes that would violate the first amendment,as govt would be dealing with religious matters.
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And this is a case of the school administration putting up religious doctrine in a public school. Teaching religion is not the job of the government, as I explained in the post you dodged. Using the schools to proselytise for your religion is effectively creating government run churches. It's illegal.
 
Grendel said:
I did.



And this is a case of the school administration putting up religious doctrine in a public school. Teaching religion is not the job of the government, as I explained in the post you dodged. Using the schools to proselytise for your religion is effectively creating government run churches. It's illegal.
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no dude you only performed an epic strawman,and tried to knock it down.

now i never once said schools should be run by religion,you attacked me in an earlier post on something i never said.i simply broke down the amendment and speculation surroundingit.

you took what i said so far out of context farm animals worldwide hadto starve because the amount of straw your strawman consumed.
 
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digsbe said:
Why do militant atheists have to throw a fit over hanging the 10 Commandments? People are to hypersensitive, and it's a public place and should be allowed to hang.
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Maybe by removing them, they feel better about their behavior.

Sent from my blasted phone.
 
roguenuke said:
If they are just a display in a school for no more purpose than decoration, then why is it bad for them to be cut down to the six that are unlikely to offend or intimidate anyone? Personally, I would have just told them to take them down.
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Well me to, but I guess we're dealing with a lot of folks who see it differently. The poster wasn't harming anyone while it was up, and no one is harmed by it's taking down.

roguenuke said:
Because all children and teens know that just because something is so important to the school that they need it displayed, that it isn't really something they need to take to heart or think that not believing in would cause them any grief. Sure.
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My high-school displaying a few religious items didn't stop me from being wiccan, so I can't relate.

Plus, I noticed you didn't address my other point in this.
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There was a reason for that.

roguenuke said:
Do you think that it would be the other side having an issue with a display of the Laws of Islam being up in a school as the only image until being advised by legal council that they should include other, non-religious, historical documents?
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Not if there's a significant Islamic presence in the community. These religious displays are cultural vestiges, so Christian displays in predominantly christian communities are to be expected, as are Jewish displays in Jewish communities, Buddhist displays in Buddhist communities, and a mix of displays in a mixed community.

roguenuke said:
And those hunting laws would not apply to bugs.
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Yes I know, thank you for reiterating the painfully obvious just in case anyone else missed the qualifier "most" which I included in that statement.

roguenuke said:
The only time any "no killing" law applies to bugs is when the bug in question is an endangered species. Most aren't.
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Yup.....I couldn't care less, though.

roguenuke said:
And the KJV Bible says "thou shalt not kill". And the one up in the HS appears to be "thou shall not kill", not "thou shall not murder". (going off the images I can find on this)
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Well, it's "murder", not "kill", so any document which states "kill" is wrong, including the KJV.
 
Ikari said:
I don't know, I just don't feel it that way. I think that maybe we see more Christian stuff because demographically we're mostly Christian. I mean, sure they should hang up other things; I just don't think that they should have to. Let the local school boards decide what's appropriate. So long as students aren't being forced or the rights of others are not being infringed upon, I see no real issue.
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IMO the lawsuit was the wrong way to go.

At the outset of controversy, the school should have taken the poster down, students who wanted it up should have formed a Christian student group who could then display material, just like any student group, in the hallway. Now it's free religious expression by the student body, not endorsed religion by the school. The Commandments stay up, so the Christians are happy. If any local atheists want to make a counter display they could form a student group and acquire their equal space on the wall and post their views by putting absolutely nothing there, so the atheists would be happy. If there were any other religions, political affiliations, hobbiests or etc among the student body which wanted to display their material, they could likewise form student groups and display their material in an equal space.
 
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Grendel said:
Either that or they realize that teh government isn't well suited to run churches.
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Show me where they are running churches.

Sent from my blasted phone.
 
Jerry said:
Well me to, but I guess we're dealing with a lot of folks who see it differently. The poster wasn't harming anyone while it was up, and no one is harmed by it's taking down.
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No one was harmed because they relied on the rule of law to take the poster down. The harm comes when people think our laws don't apply to them. Apathy is poor excuse for ignoring the principles this country was founded on.
 
Moot said:
No one was harmed because they relied on the rule of law to take the poster down. The harm comes when people think our laws don't apply to them. Apathy is poor excuse for ignoring the principles this country was founded on.
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Our laws?? Are you a law maker? Do you honestly feel the constitution protects you from anything? If a christian community wishes to hang christian posters that is their business. Who are you, or the government, to decide outside of your community what others should and should not do. People cry "give me liberty" people cry "let me be free" yet when a community tries to use that right, you jump in and say "Nope, I meant be free as long as it agrees with this law and that law and oh don't forget that law over there... guess what, we made a new law..." pffft, you don't want liberty... you want liberty for people that think like you.

Don't try to give me this Constitution crap either... it was written 200 years ago by men that wished to have liberty but still owned slaves. A bunch of hypocrites. That's like one slave getting his freedom, only to enslave another for his own.
 
Moot said:
No one was harmed because they relied on the rule of law to take the poster down. The harm comes when people think our laws don't apply to them. Apathy is poor excuse for ignoring the principles this country was founded on.
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No one was harmed because it was just a decorative piece of laminated paper hung on a wall.
 
Zelaphi said:
Our laws?? Are you a law maker? Do you honestly feel the constitution protects you from anything? If a christian community wishes to hang christian posters that is their business. Who are you, or the government, to decide outside of your community what others should and should not do. People cry "give me liberty" people cry "let me be free" yet when a community tries to use that right, you jump in and say "Nope, I meant be free as long as it agrees with this law and that law and oh don't forget that law over there... guess what, we made a new law..." pffft, you don't want liberty... you want liberty for people that think like you.

Don't try to give me this Constitution crap either... it was written 200 years ago by men that wished to have liberty but still owned slaves. A bunch of hypocrites. That's like one slave getting his freedom, only to enslave another for his own.
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Actually the abolition of slavery was going to be in the original bill of rights, but had to be taken out to collect enough signatures for ratification. So it was either have a new nation and shelve slavery for another day, or no new nation at all.

Politics, go figure.
 
Moot said:
Students are forced to go to school and if religious influence is plastered all over the walls and/or taught in the classroom, then that is forced indoctrination.
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I just think that's a bit BS. Hell I went to Catholic school where religion really was being taught and preached and I still turned out atheist.
 
Ikari said:
I just think that's a bit BS. Hell I went to Catholic school where religion really was being taught and preached and I still turned out atheist.
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I even hear some children raised by gay parents turn out to be straight. It's a crazy world.
 
beerftw said:
technically jews and christians as they both worship the same god,with the difference being jews believed jesus was a prophet and christians believed he was the messiah.
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You left off the Muslims. Jews believe they are the decendents of Abraham, so do the Arabs (hint, it's where the name Arab is derived from) just through a different wife than the Jews. Jewish, Christian and Muslim faithes were once the same, the Christians split off at the time of Christ and the Muslim's boke off at the time of Mohammed. If you look at the Muslim faith, with the exception of the so called "Satanic" Verses that were added after Mohammed's death, Muslims and Jews are almost Identical in their beliefs. The Muslim faith is really the Jewish faith, retold with an Arab lead and given to us through an Arab instead of a Jew.
 
American said:
Show me where they are running churches.
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Using a government building to proselytise and teach religion makes it a governmnet church. That's not what the government is here for.


Zelaphi said:
If a christian community wishes to hang christian posters that is their business. Who are you, or the government, to decide outside of your community what others should and should not do
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It was the government hanging the christian posters. The public schools are run by the government. The government has no business trying to take over religious instruction.
 
When some complain about the 'persecution of xians' and censorship of xian religious beliefs in modern America, they seem to forget that they and other religious groups ARE allowed to put up signs and monuments and banners on, not only church property, but in store fronts, along highways - as long as the sign is on privately-owned land and all manner of other locations with the exception - which is what seems to drive some folks crazy - of government land and buildings.

However, atheists seem to have problems putting up signs, even when they are paid for, for some strange reason.

This sign was rejected by the County of Lackawanna Transit System
Inoffensive.jpg

Capitol One has a website that allows you to pick an image for your credit card but they don't like the following:

Atheist.jpg
Atheist Symbol Rejected By Capital One, But Jesus Is Preapproved


After five months of back and forth negotiations, atheists in Ohio finally got to see their billboards
entry10-300x138.jpg

and these are signs that have been paid for by private groups or individual. The difficulty in posting such "offensive and controversial" signs is just part of the reason there are legal objections to religious statements and/or monuments on government land or buildings, no matter which belief is represented. Those who reflexively hate 'libruls' should try, difficult I know, to understand that many of us would and do object to any and all religious symbols on government property - with one exception, on the grave markers of deceased military. The marker and the cemetery may be government property but each marker is representative of that individual who lies beneath it. Of course, it took years for the military to accept atheist symbols on those markers and it was only in 2007 that the Wicca symbol of a star within a circle was accepted.
 
digsbe said:
Why do militant atheists have to throw a fit over hanging the 10 Commandments? People are to hypersensitive, and it's a public place and should be allowed to hang.
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It gives the impression that the government backs Jewish-based faiths. If you believe that the government should not back religion then you do not want that impression to be given.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Indeed - I was a bit peeved last night when they did a super religious song about Bethlehem at my kid's kindergarten graduation ceremony.
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You think that's bad? When I was in a public middle school award ceremony they made us pray. I stayed in my seat as protest. Always the politician :D
 
Somerville said:
When some complain about the 'persecution of xians' and censorship of xian religious beliefs in modern America, they seem to forget that they and other religious groups ARE allowed to put up signs and monuments and banners on, not only church property, but in store fronts, along highways - as long as the sign is on privately-owned land and all manner of other locations with the exception - which is what seems to drive some folks crazy - of government land and buildings.

However, atheists seem to have problems putting up signs, even when they are paid for, for some strange reason.

This sign was rejected by the County of Lackawanna Transit System
View attachment 67127479

Capitol One has a website that allows you to pick an image for your credit card but they don't like the following:

View attachment 67127480
Atheist Symbol Rejected By Capital One, But Jesus Is Preapproved


After five months of back and forth negotiations, atheists in Ohio finally got to see their billboards
View attachment 67127483

and these are signs that have been paid for by private groups or individual. The difficulty in posting such "offensive and controversial" signs is just part of the reason there are legal objections to religious statements and/or monuments on government land or buildings, no matter which belief is represented. Those who reflexively hate 'libruls' should try, difficult I know, to understand that many of us would and do object to any and all religious symbols on government property - with one exception, on the grave markers of deceased military. The marker and the cemetery may be government property but each marker is representative of that individual who lies beneath it. Of course, it took years for the military to accept atheist symbols on those markers and it was only in 2007 that the Wicca symbol of a star within a circle was accepted.
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So, you want Atheism recognized as a religion?

j-mac
 
MadLib said:
It gives the impression that the government backs Jewish-based faiths. If you believe that the government should not back religion then you do not want that impression to be given.
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How dare they in a country founded on Judeo-Christian principle.


j-mac
 
MadLib said:
You think that's bad? When I was in a public middle school award ceremony they made us pray. I stayed in my seat as protest. Always the politician :D
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OMG!!!! Get the child psychiatrist....You must have been scared for at least 3 minutes...


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
How dare they in a country founded on Judeo-Christian principle.


j-mac
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Really, where does the Constitution mention anything about Jesus?
 
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