Neo-Nazis elected in the new Greek parliament

Rapunzel52 said:

Yet that is growing faster than any global warming effort. Please don't dismiss it. A few years ago they were nothing...then a couple years ago 5.3% now 7%.

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That's bad enough. But Greece is in a really extreme situation at the moment. I am confident that once the situation improves, the votes for neo-Nazis will decrease again. I don't think most of the 7% neo-Nazi voters are convinced neo-Nazis... it's really more a protest vote to show the established parties a finger.

That said, a certain minority voting for far-right parties is not uncommon in other Western countries either. No matter if the US or Europe... up to 20% of the voters are willing to vote for far-right ostracism any time of the day, if it's just packaged properly.

German guy said:

The Nazis got ca. 7% of the votes in Greece and the "communists" (if Syriza actually are commies) ca. 15%. That's still far enough from power, fortunately.

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Yeah, but remember that Americans have a two-party system, and so don't always get multi-party systems, and so think that such minorities represented in the government means that next elections they will take everything over with no opposition.

German guy said:

That's bad enough. But Greece is in a really extreme situation at the moment. I am confident that once the situation improves, the votes for neo-Nazis will decrease again. I don't think most of the 7% neo-Nazi voters are convinced neo-Nazis... it's really more a protest vote to show the established parties a finger.

That said, a certain minority voting for far-right parties is not uncommon in other Western countries either. No matter if the US or Europe... up to 20% of the voters are willing to vote for far-right ostracism any time of the day, if it's just packaged properly.

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Nazi's are Nazi's and their message is the same...please don't dismiss them.

Rapunzel52 said:

Nazi's are Nazi's and their message is the same...please don't dismiss them.

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I don't dismiss them. I'm just saying 7% for the Nazis means 93% of the Greek did not vote for them. And that's not even counting those who didn't go voting at all.

German Guy said:

"communists" (if Syriza actually are commies) ca. 15%.

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Don't worry, they're not. The momentum of social forces gaining speed in Greece will push right past them; whether it's to the right or left at this point is anyone's guess.

This is a textbook dictatorship takeover.

In this example, we simply add financial terrorism to the list of problems.
Unfortunately, these types of psy-ops are almost always successful.
A cruel hoax played again and again throughout history.

Problem-Reaction-Solution, also known as Problem? Reaction. Solution., PRS, or P-R-S, is a variation on the classic Machiavellian fabricated external-enemy strategy for manipulation of public opinion and society, usually by the government. The general theory is based on the Hegelian Dialectic method thesis, antithesis, synthesis, but the specific term is usually only used in the context of a conspiracy theory.

Definition:

Problem-Reaction-Solution is defined as the strategy of creating a crisis (the problem), waiting for a call for action to resolve the crisis (the reaction), then taking action (the solution), supposedly in response, which actually furthers a hidden agenda, usually gaining power. This is often cited as:

0. The government wants power the people will not freely give.
1. The government creates or exploits a problem, blaming it on others.
2. The people react by asking the government for help, willing to give up their rights. Think terrorist attacks, Cyber Terrorism, Domestic Terrorism, now we add Financial Terrorism
3. The government offers the solution that was planned long before the crisis.

Rapunzel52 said:

The Nazi's and Communists are gaining power. Think about that.

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Well considering they are on the total opposite side of the political scale, then them gaining power at the same time is kinda.... impossible.

Manc Skipper said:

Not according to friends who live and/or have family there. Wholesale job losses, public and private. Pensions and benefits slashed. There are beggars on the streets and some actually starving. What do you know about hyperbole?

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That's to be expected when a citizenry becomes dependent on a government, especially a Greek government. Then, incredibly, they are "crushed" when the Greek government doesn't follow through with its promises and instead run out of money. Are these people who believed them insane?

This sounds like the plot of one of those terrible B and W European comedies of the 70's.

German guy said:

The Nazis got ca. 7% of the votes in Greece and the "communists" (if Syriza actually are commies) ca. 15%. That's still far enough from power, fortunately.

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Yeah, right, nothing to see here.

Of course they voted for the Nazis, or Commies, because they were 'desperate'.

Yes, that should improve their situation.

PeteEU said:

Well considering they are on the total opposite side of the political scale, then them gaining power at the same time is kinda.... impossible.

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How remarkably wrong.

But this is what happens to people who only think in terms, false ones at that, of Left and Right.

samsmart said:

Yeah, but remember that Americans have a two-party system, and so don't always get multi-party systems, and so think that such minorities represented in the government means that next elections they will take everything over with no opposition.

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And this two party system has served them well. That means extremist parties are less likely to get a foot in the door.

:shrug: A diverse parliament is the sign of a healthy multi-party system, plus there's no Greek men with tiny moustaches, so I'm not really worried.

Grant said:

And this two party system has served them well. That means extremist parties are less likely to get a foot in the door.

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Unless you believe Obama is a Marxist. :lol:

j-mac said:

Those who don't pay attention, and learn history are doomed to repeat it.

Thoughts?


j-mac

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Louisiana elected David Duke, so it happens everywhere.

There is nothing more interesting than watching Conservative Americans who barely understand America´s own political institutions discuss the social dynamics and political situations of other nations. It´s absolutely mind boggling. The same people who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan with rifles and weak rhetoric are trembling at the thought of democratically elected minorities in other countries.

Hatuey said:

There is nothing more interesting than watching Conservative Americans who barely understand America´s own political institutions discuss the social dynamics and political situations of other nations. It´s absolutely mind boggling. The same people who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan with rifles and weak rhetoric are trembling at the thought of democratically elected minorities in other countries.

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Weird isn't it?

One thing about the Nazis. They had really sharp looking uniforms. Sure, they killed millions and millions of people, put the whole world at war and got their own country desimated, but they should gotten a best-dressed award.

j-mac said:

Those who don't pay attention, and learn history are doomed to repeat it.

Thoughts?


j-mac

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The story gets better when you include the other part....

Communists were also elected.

j-mac said:

Those who don't pay attention, and learn history are doomed to repeat it.

Thoughts?


j-mac

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And the neo-nazi wants to close the borders with land minds.

Sound familiar?

Hatuey said:

There is nothing more interesting than watching Conservative Americans who barely understand America´s own political institutions discuss the social dynamics and political situations of other nations.

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Do you feel Leftist Americans understand Europe better? Perhaps only Conservatives understand American political institutions and social dynamics. You've opened the door to unlimited, though useless, analogies.

It´s absolutely mind boggling. The same people who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan with rifles and weak rhetoric are trembling at the thought of democratically elected minorities in other countries.

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It's mind boggling all right. Who were those Americans "who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan"? Which Americans are "trembling"?

Europeans lost half their continent to the the Communists, are apparently unaware of the damage done by Nazis, and yet it is the Americans who lack understanding. Even American Conservatives might see the irony here.

Grant said:

Do you feel Leftist Americans understand Europe better?

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On the contrary, I dont pretend I understand the social dynamics of countries I dont live in and have never visited. However I´m sure an "Independent" like yourself is more than willing to explain it to me.

It's mind boggling all right. Who were those Americans "who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan"?

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International Institute for Strategic Studies Bush vows democracy for Iraq and Middle East

President Bush vowed to bring democracy to Iraq and the wider Middle East, as he stressed the US-led coalition was not looking for an early exit from Baghdad.

"We did not charge hundreds of miles into the heart of Iraq and pay a bitter cost of causalities and liberate 25 million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins," he told an audience of foreign policy and defence experts in London’s Banqueting House.

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Which Americans are "trembling"?

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Jmac in this thread for one.

Europeans lost half their continent to the the Communists, are apparently unaware of the damage done by Nazis, and yet it is the Americans who lack understanding. Even American Conservatives might see the irony here.

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I don´t really care or understand what you´re getting at.

Rapunzel52 said:

Thoughts??? Yes, you are correct. When things get so bad, the people just want it to stop and will support just about anyone to get it to stop. Problem is what stops it is worse than you ever imagined.

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Thats the danger of pushing a single issue waaay to hard...during bad times...when many people are confused, hurting, or scared.
It has a negative effect.....they begin to resent it and then fight against it...and at worst use it as the poster issue to vote wildly...

Hatuey said:

There is nothing more interesting than watching Conservative Americans who barely understand America´s own political institutions discuss the social dynamics and political situations of other nations. It´s absolutely mind boggling. The same people who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan with rifles and weak rhetoric are trembling at the thought of democratically elected minorities in other countries.

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Brilliant comment.

I'd add the same Conservative Americans are also Christians who embrace archaic Hebrew tribal laws over the teachings of Christ.

neo nazis ,while they are greek...no thankss:mrgreen:

Grant said:

Do you feel Leftist Americans understand Europe better? Perhaps only Conservatives understand American political institutions and social dynamics. You've opened the door to unlimited, though useless, analogies.



It's mind boggling all right. Who were those Americans "who swore we could bring democracy to backwards ass Iraq and Afghanistan"? Which Americans are "trembling"?

Europeans lost half their continent to the the Communists, are apparently unaware of the damage done by Nazis, and yet it is the Americans who lack understanding. Even American Conservatives might see the irony here.

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I disagree with your assessments. Europe didn’t loose any more that the west gained after WWII: it was territorial division, which happens after any major war: the spoils . . .

The only people (Americans) who are familiar with Europe are those who have studied and been there. Europe is the cradle of western civilization. When we visits there, one deals with a civilization that has been on that ground for the same amount of time that the American Indians have been on ours. That means that, almost everything we think and all that was derived to form the United States started in Europe. So, they know, they’ve done it before. They have to get along: they’re connected to on another the way we are connected to Canada and Mexico. Their policies therefore are naturally going to be more liberal. WWI and II taught Europe that manifest destiny only works in speeches and the US was very lucky that the Indian nation was not more populated and organized, or “the settlers” would have been booted forthwith: Ireland is a strong testimony to that fact.

American conservatives offer nothing but a belligerence that made Thomas Jefferson shudder: the “ugly American”. . . American conservatives are a whole new brand of Americans that harkens back to 1933 Germany really, and the world, particularly educated America, can see it like the nose on our faces. That’s the problem.

It’s only about America as much as the rest of the world says it is. 1940 Japan felt the same way as conservatives and still lived in feudal times and we know how that turned out. That’s what happened in Iraq! And it is mind boggling to see that there are people in this country; trying to obtain positions of leadership, as well as their minions who don’t get all that.