• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

May Day protests turn violent in downtown Seattle

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree completely. When this group, whether you call them OWS black bloc or whatever, starts violence by vandalizing small business owners and looting items, these people are nothing but thugs and theives. I support the right for people to defend themselves and their property.

It's not fascism to defend yourself and your property from being damaged, destroyed, or looted by thugs.
First, I would ask for evidence of looting.

Second, I would ask for evidence of ties to OWS.

Third, I would ask how the desire of internet vigilantes to kill people they don't like is "defending themselves and their property."

Last, I would appreciate if you address those items in your reply before making up anything else.
 
Hmmm, you think? I doubt it, you're not on the same intellectual level as I am.

Would you like some more tea to go with that elitist buffoonery .... :)

Not only have I forgotten more than you will ever learn, but I also took up the gun for 7 years to defend your liberty.

Slam-dunk on you ;)
 
There is no rationalization for these criminal activities.

Solidarity Sunday

Yet they embrace it. :shrug:

Regarding the charge that people are not lashing out at the government but the evil rich................ there is a strong feeling among many people - and they are NOT bomb throwers of poop propellers - that far too often the government serves the evil rich over everyone else.


They seem to be just that...

Solidarity Sunday


Anyway, screaming at coporations while enjoying a starbucks as you throw bricks through small businesses windows, and try to block highways, well what kind of message do you think that sends. #ows of dubious causes embraces these tactics and now that they "jumped the shark" only the extremist element remains, and we are beginning to see the evil of thier ways.
 
LOL :D Well right now neither of you are looking to genius with your little ping pong game, here. . . :D
 
I am not justifying any of these criminal activities and made that quite clear.

It is a fact that many working people feel that the government serves the rich and corporate interests over theirs.
 
I simply cannot understand how people can support a group who uses violence against small business owners in destroying and looting items. [...]
Can you identify these small businesses for us?

And the looting?

Oh -- also tell us just exactly who is supporting them?

Thanks :)
 
Particularly not in the targets either as these are more riots than revolt. But there were those condemning the destruction of private property and violence and blah; but we did pretty much exactly that when we revolted against Britain. I just find it funny that some people in their zeal to denounce OWS also denounce the Founders.

I denounce their validity and their ideology. The tactics they use can be used by any group... the issue really is how it's perceived. If there is enough support by the populace, a violent act can be seen as an uprising, a demonstration or the start of a revolt. The problem is, back in the day there were very few people in the U.S., yet most of them had a very similar background, came from generally the same place (England or England's rather large commonwealth of controlled country's), and had a similar view and experiences of England. Today, that's the not the case in any sense. I seriously doubt anything less than a North Korean totalitarianistic government take over or invasion by a foreign power would cause and uprising that would be generally supported in this country.

To your earlier comment about 10% to start an uprising - that may be true to start but it would be easily crushed, their message however valid, manipulated and denounced... etc. IMO it would take probably 25% or more and the vast minority of that would need to be peaceful unless of course we're in a Stalin-esque type environment which would necessitate a full take down of the government and I just don't see that happening any time soon, or maybe I should say the probability is incredibly low.
 
First, I would ask for evidence of looting.

In this articel, there is none. Regardless, people have a right to defend their property from vandalism.

Second, I would ask for evidence of ties to OWS.

Solidarity Sunday article that has been posted.

Third, I would ask how the desire of internet vigilantes to kill people they don't like is "defending themselves and their property."

You don't personally have to be the one being vandalized to want to protect someone's property. I would for any of these small business owners. Why do you think vandalism is ok for the working guy that is trying to get by?

Last, I would appreciate if you address those items in your reply before making up anything else.

Done, and aside from the looting, it still doesn't change the fact people have the right to defend property from being vandalized and destroyed.
 
You do know, that these kids don't share the idea of "liberty" that you think. most are dependent class liberal slobs or mommy boys with a platnium cards in thier wallet.... [...]
And you know this how? Mind reading abilities?

[....] by throwing a rock through my window, I hope they enjoy my lead 5.56 "acorn" I'll be putting in thier head.
Ah, I see - dehumanizing someone to lessen the cognitive dissonance of murdering them.
 
There is a lot of talk in this thread comparing the OWS movement with the American Revolution. There is no comparison. The Revolution took place because a government was taking from the people here with no representation. The OWS movement has representation. They have a vote. No one is unlawfully taking anything away from them. The American Revolution didn't take place because people wanted more. It didn't take place because they hand outs. Even then, the Revolutionaries tried repeatedly, without violence to work things out with Britain. They attempted to work it out according to the law at the time. They attempted to use diplomacy. They did not start beating and robbing the people they were trying to help. This group is nothing like the revolutionaries that declared independence and fought to keep it.
 
Would you like some more tea to go with that elitist buffoonery .... :)

Not only have I forgotten more than you will ever learn, but I also took up the gun for 7 years to defend your liberty.

Slam-dunk on you ;)

I'm a PhD physics, what you have and will know in your entire life is but a subset of my knowledge.

Slam-dunk on you ;)
 
The Boston Tea party, and events leading up to it, were a protest against taxation on the colonies, absent representation, not about a bunch of punk kids wanting free stuff [...]
What free stuff, specifically?

And do you have any links or evidence of these alleged demands for this "free stuff"?
 
These "knuckledraggers" would never have tried the same thing with the Tea Party protesters because they know that any attempt at violence, or damage to public property, would have put them in serious harm's way. The Tea partiers love their country and what it stands for.

But they know that they can get away with this sort of thing with the OWSers because the OWSers tend to behave like a disoriented mob and are, of course, not terribly bright. Their knuckles would show a lot of wear as well.

There's the solution! Let's bring in some Tea partiers to kick a little violent anarchist butt. That will make the Tea Party heroes, and put an end to the nonsense at the same time.

What a great idea. Anyone see how it could possibly not work?
 
Boston Tea Party was a tax revolt, These #ows of dubious causes types want to increase taxes. :prof
Can you give us any specifics? Or any facts?

And isn't the thread about the perpetrators of violence, which has been determined to be a group separate from OWS?
 
but free tuition comes from government.

Can't free tuition come from the private sector as well? For example, charity based education.

I thought the violent protesters were anarchists.
Notice, he didn't ask if the violent protestors were NOT anarchists, he asked "What free stuff (does OWS want) specifically", the portion in brackets is the inferred subject, which I added. I posted links to answer that specific question.
 
I denounce their validity and their ideology. The tactics they use can be used by any group... the issue really is how it's perceived. If there is enough support by the populace, a violent act can be seen as an uprising, a demonstration or the start of a revolt. The problem is, back in the day there were very few people in the U.S., yet most of them had a very similar background, came from generally the same place (England or England's rather large commonwealth of controlled country's), and had a similar view and experiences of England. Today, that's the not the case in any sense. I seriously doubt anything less than a North Korean totalitarianistic government take over or invasion by a foreign power would cause and uprising that would be generally supported in this country.

You could be right, but I'd hope not. I'd rather the people be diligent in their duty towards the Republic. That's likely wishful thinking, still I'

To your earlier comment about 10% to start an uprising - that may be true to start but it would be easily crushed, their message however valid, manipulated and denounced... etc. IMO it would take probably 25% or more and the vast minority of that would need to be peaceful unless of course we're in a Stalin-esque type environment which would necessitate a full take down of the government and I just don't see that happening any time soon, or maybe I should say the probability is incredibly low.

The 10% is dependent upon condition, but it's not to say that if 10% can kick off a revolution that the 10% themselves are successful. Sometimes yes, sometimes their demise spurs the other 90% into action.

But regardless, it is a tough system to start AND control. Also you don't really know what you'll get on the other side, so you have to be sure that what you have now is pretty bad. Revolt is a roll of the dice, sometimes you get 20; but there's still a chance to roll a 1.
 
Can't free tuition come from the private sector as well? For example, charity based education.

Notice, he didn't ask if the violent protestors were NOT anarchists, he asked "What free stuff (does OWS want) specifically", the portion in brackets is the inferred subject, which I added. I posted links to answer that specific question.

Oh. So, the peaceful OWS protesters want perks from the government, while the violent anarchist protesters want to end government altogether.

That puts them on opposite sides of the issue, doesn't it?
 
I'm a PhD physics, what you have and will know in your entire life is but a subset of my knowledge.

Slam-dunk on you ;)

A PhD Physics, who hangs out at DP, attempting to validate the anarchist scum by making absurd comparisons to such as our Founders and those who fought the Revolution.

Maybe you should have gone for a degree in American history ? or civics ? How about just one semester of common sense ?
 
Oh. So, the peaceful OWS protesters want perks from the government, while the violent anarchist protesters want to end government altogether.
One could come to that conclusion, yet that's not so difficult to believe. Most organizations do not share a 100% commonality of views. Most have diverse views and yes, even "fringe" views.

That puts them on opposite sides of the issue, doesn't it?
Not necessarily. It's just another means to the same end, via a different methodology.
 
but free tuition comes from government. I thought the violent protesters were anarchists.

No, OWS is all communist. How can there be anarchists? hehehe
 
A PhD Physics, who hangs out at DP, attempting to validate the anarchist scum by making absurd comparisons to such as our Founders and those who fought the Revolution.

Maybe you should have gone for a degree in American history ? or civics ? How about just one semester of common sense ?

I took a lot of history. My majors may have been Physics and Chemistry, but I minored in Math, Botany, and Political Science. I took enough English and History courses for minors in those; but there was no more room on the form to add them.

As I said, I'm in a different league than you. You may have thought I was just being snide and condescending, but it's also a true statement.
 
Back
Top Bottom