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Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

AdamT said:
To track and eliminate the source of the tens of thousands of guns illegally going from the U.S. to the murderous drug cartels. That doesn't make sense to you?
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Dude! The United States government put those guns into circulation! How in the hell was the U.S. Government going to trace guns that they put into circulation to begin with? :rofl

The United States has all these guns, but no cartels. Mexico has the cartels. Common sense would indicate that the guns aren't actually the problem.
 
AdamT said:
I assume you mean weapons not SOLD in America, yes?
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weapons sold in americaa can only be tracked by serial number,that means if they are filed off ori make them in a machine shop,they cant track them,there are many weapons like this but the atf stoppedlidting them years ago.

want a full auto ak-47 from russia?bet i can find one in a couple hours,if we can smuggle everythign else illegal,why are guns an exception,other than the sole fact they fit a liberal agenda.
 
apdst said:
Dude! The United States government put those guns into circulation! How in the hell was the U.S. Government going to trace guns that they put into circulation to begin with? :rofl

The United States has all these guns, but no cartels. Mexico has the cartels. Common sense would indicate that the guns aren't actually the problem.
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he isn't going to believe that,he is going to believe that america is the sole provider of guns to the world and that guns have magic powers to force people to commit crimes.
 
beerftw said:
weapons sold in americaa can only be tracked by serial number,that means if they are filed off ori make them in a machine shop,they cant track them,there are many weapons like this but the atf stoppedlidting them years ago.

want a full auto ak-47 from russia?bet i can find one in a couple hours,if we can smuggle everythign else illegal,why are guns an exception,other than the sole fact they fit a liberal agenda.
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Well, since they apparently DID trace tens of thousands of guns to America, I think it's safe to assume that the cartels don't give a **** about filing down serial numbers. Any more red herrings or excuses?
 
AdamT said:
Well, since they apparently DID trace tens of thousands of guns to America, I think it's safe to assume that the cartels don't give a **** about filing down serial numbers. Any more red herrings or excuses?
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aww but now your denying the fact if we fully outlawed guns they would find a different source,great job ignoring all past evidence that has proven you wrong bynpointing out 68k guns,but ignoring the fact alot more untrackable guns exist,great i bet you believe the war on drugs worked.


heres a thought why are liberals focusing on american guns and not attacking the solution.i have a solution loist the number of untrackable guns in mexico,i can guarantee mexico and the atf dont list them,because obviously the us is the only country that makes guns,and no one makes them illegally with no number;)
 
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apdst said:
Cigarettes are legal. There's still a black market for cigarettes.

The ilegal drug trade will never go away. The only thing that will change, is the reason for the drugs being illegal.
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1) People aren't killing each other for control of the black market cigarette trade.

2) The black market for cigarettes isn't a multi-billion dollar global trade.

3) There is a legal cigarette market for cigarette consumers to turn to. There are no legal markets for consumers of marijuana, LSD, peyote, cocaine, heroin, and other recreational drugs to turn to.

Is there a black market for cigarettes? Yes. But there's a black market for any good or service. But that does not justify that good or service being illegal.

And recreational drugs were not always illegal. The use of recreational drugs for various purposes has been much longer than attempts to utterly outlaw them.
 
beerftw said:
aww but now your denying the fact if we fully outlawed guns they would find a different source
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If that is a "fact" then I'm sure you can prove it ... or at least provide a shred of evidence?
 
AdamT said:
You'd have to ask them, but apparently they do.
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NOt nearly in the numbers that the administration claims. Many of those weapons are military export weapons that we gave or sold to the Mexicans or other Latin American or South American "allies" that were-due to corruption or theft or a combination thereof-obtained by the Cartels. Every year in the USA we lose approximately 15,000 M16 or M4 select fire rifles
 
AdamT said:
If that is a "fact" then I'm sure you can prove it ... or at least provide a shred of evidence?
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in the last 20 years several things have happened. The eastern bloc countries converted from the AKM pattern weapons to the AK 74 firing the 545X39 shells

The Chinese stopped using USSR standard ammo and weapons and started making their own weapons and own proprietary cartridges

Some former Soviet Bloc nations joined NATO and started either buying STANAG (nato standards) weapons or making their own weapons that fire the NATO STANAG ammo

what this means is that

1) the chinese had millions of soviet pattern weapons to dump
2) the eastern bloc had millions of 762X39 weapons to dump along with 9X18 Makarov or the 762X25 Tokarev weapons to dump
3) new NATO nations had COMBLOC weapons to dump

well over 100 million AK pattern rifles
 
AdamT said:
To track and eliminate the source of the tens of thousands of guns illegally going from the U.S. to the murderous drug cartels. That doesn't make sense to you?
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Wouldn't the source be the American government since it is the American government who gave them the guns? As Μολὼν λαβέ asked how does it make sense to give cartels weapons?

Should we give the Iranian government nuclear weapons so we can track and eliminate the source of classified information leaks or the illegal sales of nuclear weapons?
Should we give child porn to pedophiles so we can track and eliminate the source of child porn?
Should we give school kids illegal drugs so we can track and eliminate the source of illegal drugs in schools?
Should we release convicted rapist into female college dormitories so we can track and eliminate the source of rapes?


The answer to all those would be no.Do you know why the answer is no? Its because it doesn't make any logical ****en sense to arm thugs, give nukes to enemy nations, give child porn to pedophiles, give illegal drugs to school kids to release rapist onto a female college dormitory. The reason it doesn't make any logical ****en sense is because these are basically contradictory and will cause lots of harm.
 
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TurtleDude said:
NOt nearly in the numbers that the administration claims. Many of those weapons are military export weapons that we gave or sold to the Mexicans or other Latin American or South American "allies" that were-due to corruption or theft or a combination thereof-obtained by the Cartels. Every year in the USA we lose approximately 15,000 M16 or M4 select fire rifles
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And you're basing that on....?
 
TurtleDude said:
in the last 20 years several things have happened. The eastern bloc countries converted from the AKM pattern weapons to the AK 74 firing the 545X39 shells

The Chinese stopped using USSR standard ammo and weapons and started making their own weapons and own proprietary cartridges

Some former Soviet Bloc nations joined NATO and started either buying STANAG (nato standards) weapons or making their own weapons that fire the NATO STANAG ammo

what this means is that

1) the chinese had millions of soviet pattern weapons to dump
2) the eastern bloc had millions of 762X39 weapons to dump along with 9X18 Makarov or the 762X25 Tokarev weapons to dump
3) new NATO nations had COMBLOC weapons to dump

well over 100 million AK pattern rifles
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Yeah, and they make a lot of cheese in Wisconsin but that doesn't mean that the Mexican crartels full of Wisconsin cheese.
 
jamesrage said:
Wouldn't the source be the American government since it is the American government who gave them the guns?
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You mean F&F? That was a sting operation (poorly) designed to track the source of the illegal trade. It was a lot of guns, but a drop in the bucket relative to number illegally crossing the border.
 
AdamT said:
Yeah, and they make a lot of cheese in Wisconsin but that doesn't mean that the Mexican crartels full of Wisconsin cheese.
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You have reached the point of engaging in idiotic denial because the facts do not comport with your beliefs. The fact is american gun dealers cannot sell fully automatic weapons to anyone without the ATF conducting a background check and local law enforcement giving permission

LEGALLY transferable Title II weapons require the purchaser obtain a "Class III" tax stamp and those weapons-none of which were registered after May 19, 1986 are EXTREMELY expensive

for example a transferable HK MP5 submachine gun costs between 15 and 20K while those for sale only to police departments cost less than 2000

a transferable (converted in the USA prior to May 19, 1986) AKM is in the 11k range

the ones available on the world market to governments -maybe 400 dollars

so cartel types are not going to buy through legal channels the stuff US gun dealers have for sales to people like me

here is the website of one of the top machine gun dealers

you can see the prices

DealerNFA - Machine Guns

military only M4s cost about 1000 dollars-one 20th the cost of the transferable Class III legal versions
 
AdamT said:
You mean F&F? That was a sting operation (poorly) designed to track the source of the illegal trade.
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Giving weapons to thugs is not designed to track the source of illegal trade,especially to thugs in other countries. You can track the source of illegal trade when you are the source of illegal trade. It is a piss poor attempt by anti-2nd amendment loons to have an excuse to further **** on the 2nd amendment.
 
AdamT said:
You mean F&F? That was a sting operation (poorly) designed to track the source of the illegal trade. It was a lot of guns, but a drop in the bucket relative to number illegally crossing the border.
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Nice try. It was a poorly designed scheme to back door anti gun legislation like the new long gun registration rules required in the border states. But hey thanks for playing.
 
AdamT said:
To track and eliminate the source of the tens of thousands of guns illegally going from the U.S. to the murderous drug cartels. That doesn't make sense to you?
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Straw gun sales generated by the US government that go to drug cartels across an international border, resulting in thousands of deaths; no, that makes no sense to me.
 
Mexico has been fracked for a long time, and I don't see that anything is going to un-frack it anytime soon.
 
AdamT said:
To track and eliminate the source of the tens of thousands of guns illegally going from the U.S. to the murderous drug cartels. That doesn't make sense to you?
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It would make more sense for the Mexican government to eliminate the drug cartels.
 
apdst said:
It would make more sense for the Mexican government to eliminate the drug cartels.
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dont you just hate it when people think ending supply will stop all problems,despite the fact it has never worked.

simple logic,if theres a demand someone will supply it,if you want to end the problem,end the cartels that want the guns dontend the guns,they will just buy them elsewhere.
 
beerftw said:
dont you just hate it when people think ending supply will stop all problems,despite the fact it has never worked.

simple logic,if theres a demand someone will supply it,if you want to end the problem,end the cartels that want the guns dontend the guns,they will just buy them elsewhere.
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If americans didn't put so much mexican blow up their noses or asses (yeah ask Stevie Nicks about that neat trick) or smoke so much Mexican weed, this would be a non issue
 
mtlhdtodd said:
Nice try. It was a poorly designed scheme to back door anti gun legislation like the new long gun registration rules required in the border states. But hey thanks for playing.
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Really? Was that also the case when the Bush DOJ did essentially the same thing?
 
AdamT said:
Really? Was that also the case when the Bush DOJ did essentially the same thing?
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Obama and his minions screw the pooch and team Obama is blaming Bush again.

SHOCKING I TELL YOU
 
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