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Syria crisis: France raises use of force(edited)

Re: France, suddenly has backbone

I can say playing dumb... well... is dumb. Invading the wrong country and being responsible for the deaths of a million people in the 21st century... well.

how would you respond?
I'd respond by saying your not talking about the bombing in Libya in 1986 and are referencing something other than the OP. Which is fine...

Anyways the thread is ready for your dodges...
Nothing to dodge, you're off topic so it's more like "thread ignore". :coffeepap:

put your blinders on :)

Just as soon as you take off your little foil hat.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Because despite the icing, the cake is worthless. They did very little for us during the Revolutionary War. And they did very little in Afghanistan today. English speaking nations are or true allies. The rest merely want a seat at the table and they will send troops to hide behind walls to prove it. Add up the casualties of all other countries in the NATO coalition in Afghanistan and they don't add up to what Canada has lost. Next in line is the U.K. and then, of course, the U.S. You don't spend all day in the sun building a shed with your own tools and give grand thanks to the neighbor who shows up with a few nails and a pitcher of lemonade to support you.

As far as this grand show of morality to defend the little guys, one month prior to insisting that America do something with them in Libya, France offerred complete support to the dictator in Tunisia.

You sure do walk a long way of dismissal to ensure your disdain for France. I'll stick with the facts of how the French blockade was imperative in us winning the Revolutionary war and trapped Cornwallis' escape along with the massive contributions of General Lafayette that you seem to also ignore by saying "They did very little for us during the Revolutionary War."

Ignorance is bliss I guess when you wish to convince yourself to believe something rather than reading history to get the facts.


France's Admiral de Grasse arrived in time to block a British fleet that was coming to rescue Lord Cornwallis from French and American land forces. On September 5, 1781, de Grasses's fleet moved out of Chesapeake Bay to face the attacking British ships. Realizing that the French blockade could not be broken, the British fleet sailed back to New York leaving Cornwallis' army with no choice but to surrender.​


I guess that Lafayette Square being put right next to the Whitehouse honors General Lafayette and how little contribution he was for us. :lol:

As far as the French in Afghanistan not being much of a contribution...


The first deployed French force was composed of soldiers from the 21st Marine Infantry Regiment deployed on 17 November 2001, to Mazar-e Sharif. As of 17 September 2011, 75 French soldiers have died.​


I'm sure that there are about 75 families that would really like to thank you for ****ting on their departed loved ones who simply went to fight on behalf of the United States. "A few nails and a pitcher of lemonade" indeed. Stay classy sport.
 
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Re: France, suddenly has backbone

You sure do walk a long way of dismissal to ensure your disdain for France. I'll stick with the facts of how the French blockade was imperative in us winning the Revolutionary war and trapped Cornwallis' escape along with the massive contributions of General Lafayette that you seem to also ignore by saying "They did very little for us during the Revolutionary War."

Ignorance is bliss I guess when you wish to convince yourself to believe something rather than reading history to get the facts.


France's Admiral de Grasse arrived in time to block a British fleet that was coming to rescue Lord Cornwallis from French and American land forces. On September 5, 1781, de Grasses's fleet moved out of Chesapeake Bay to face the attacking British ships. Realizing that the French blockade could not be broken, the British fleet sailed back to New York leaving Cornwallis' army with no choice but to surrender.​


I guess that Lafayette Square being put right next to the Whitehouse honors General Lafayette and how little contribution he was for us. :lol:

As far as the French in Afghanistan not being much of a contribution...


The first deployed French force was composed of soldiers from the 21st Marine Infantry Regiment deployed on 17 November 2001, to Mazar-e Sharif. As of 17 September 2011, 75 French soldiers have died.​


I'm sure that there are about 75 families that would really like to thank you for ****ting on their departed loved ones who simply went to fight on behalf of the United States. "A few nails and a pitcher of lemonade" indeed. Stay classy sport.

Don't be so emotional. You have layed out exactly what I meant by doing very little. "75" soldiers in how many years? The reason only 75 families in France are without their sons is because France keeps their troops on main operating bases and away fom the conduct of the war. Despite having such a huge show of force in country, they remain behind bases as trainers. The bulk of the deaths are all from English speaking nations, because the bulk of the fighting is between the enemy and English speaking nations. So when France offers their verbal support to the American people with televisions and offers more troops "to the fight," Americans don't realize that we spend the money to mobilize them and we protect their bases with our forward troops, actually in the fight.

And it's great that the French "arrived in time" for the Revolutionary War. If only we deployed for France in the same manner. We would have just a few deaths over the course of the 20th century as well.

Like I said, throwing a parade for the guy that brings a nail to the construction site only offers him legitimacy in his deceit.
 
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Re: France, suddenly has backbone

I can say playing dumb... well... is dumb. Invading the wrong country and being responsible for the deaths of a million people in the 21st century... well.

how would you respond?

Anyways the thread is ready for your dodges...

put your blinders on :)

So, when did we invade the wrong country and kill a million peopl? I don't recall that every happening.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

I'm trying to figure out where we killed a million people in a single country. Throughout the Pacific...throughout Europe. I believe Vietnam almost had a million.

But let's not shed too many tears for American imperfection. Europeans are resonsible for tens of millions of deaths for not just one world war, but two. Hell, people are so spun up over the depravities of radical Muslims anymore, they forget that the Midle East never started a World War, nor did it perfect genocide and ethnic cleansing like their neighbors to the north. So I'm not sure what your point is.

That's not entirely accurate. The Arabs/Muslims are responsible for a lot of atrocities not only in Asia, but in Europe as well.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

The French have fought and won more wars than we have...

Show us their stats...can't wait for this.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

I think the problem is that they haven't done it in the last... century or so...

More like two centuries.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

I believe people have become so PC in order to convince themselves that everyone is in the same boat that they delude themselves to the truth.

Of course it doesn't justify. Justifying was not my intent. But we can explain. And hundreds of years of colonization, perfecting genocide and ethnic cleansing, starting two World Wars and a Cold War belongs across the Atlantic. Because we supported (installed, helped coup, etc.) some dictators during the Cold War doesn't mean that we are all the same now An American event doesn't equal the historical trends of others.

C'mon. Supporting dictators had everything to do with protecting democracy around the globe It was the free world versus oppression. But like I always state, nobody can be the good guys without doing bad things.

And who's in our image? Afghanistan would be the Tali-ban's were it not for 9/11. We do not launch all over the world seking to place more stars on our flag. We do not invade countries just to create commerce (a byproduct to be sure). And when it comes to celebrating France's decision to call for action over Syria, do you think they want to install another dictaorship? There is only one option left anymore when taking out a dictator. The Cold war is over. If we don't like the immoral act of the handy dandy dictator, then we have to accept the hard road of providing democratic opportunity. It's bloody and costly, but people can't have their perfect world. We need to recognize the times. The day of the dictator and monarchies is over. There is a reason over 120 democracies have been created since 1904. The future belongs to the people. Ours is a transition period where politicians and the privileged citizens of the convenient world struggle with a path.

I don't know anyone who thinks everyone is in the same boat. I think some use PC like an excuse to ignore the argument.

In explaining, there is a hint of justification. And no, supporting dictators really didn't save democracy around the world. The red threat was never the type of threat that would do away with democracy. It would help if we believed in democracy as much as we say do, having soem faith that it will endure and win the day.

At the end of the day, Afghanistan may take back the Taliban. We'll see, but I also didn;t say we trying to put stars on the flag. I said remaking them in our immage. There was a lot of talk about that early on, but as the expense grw, and the reality set in, what we'd accept became less.

And frankly, no where have I asked for a perfect world. I've asked that we not be aggressors. That we act within some core value. Not that is no room to work within the realities, but that we don't prop up dictators and oppression. And that we don't think we know best and can enforce our will on others. If you believe in our democracy, believe it will be something others want, and that time will more and more that way. Stop aggression as we did in the first guylf war, but don't invade and nation build recklessly. There are more choices than you're allowing for.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

About the French. Yes, they are a petulent lot. Of late not very dependable, if you ever do business with or through France. I do. They are hard to depend on without also having a plan for if they have a labor hissy fit. They are inefficiant as hell. And have more pompous jackasses per capita than anyone.

However. The French were an enormous help in our Revolutionary War. Not just with their fleet, but also boots-on-the-ground. As to their courage and commitment, and losses, in military campaigns, their losses in WWI were staggering. Beyond anything America can possibly relate to in any war. They are also a country eternally fouled by bad politics, and as in both WW's, bad officers.

While they have certainly stood tall in the past, at this point in their history, they are shifting to being a bit noodle-spined. They are about to vote back in a socialist, and become whining liberals once again, expecting the gubmit teat to not run dry. Friggin Germans are going to dis-own them again. ;)
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Because despite the icing, the cake is worthless. They did very little for us during the Revolutionary War.

You could basically say the american revolutionary war was a french proxy war.

And they did very little in Afghanistan today.

Perhaps CIA blackops does 'more' other than them, likely not too many people do much more. X18 trains local military... that's also good too.

English speaking nations are or true allies.

...RAAAH ZIIIEG!!!!! lmao relax :)

The rest merely want a seat at the table and they will send troops to hide behind walls to prove it.

Add up the casualties of all other countries in the NATO coalition in Afghanistan and they don't add up to what Canada has lost.

Perhaps canada should ask some questions as to who goofed them in nato.

Next in line is the U.K. and then, of course, the U.S. You don't spend all day in the sun building a shed with your own tools and give grand thanks to the neighbor who shows up with a few nails and a pitcher of lemonade to support you.

Flies and vinegar... I'm sure it'd be a dandy time in Afghanistan alone... perhaps be polite when allies decide to help in a strategically ambiguous war.

As far as this grand show of morality to defend the little guys, one month prior to insisting that America do something with them in Libya, France offerred complete support to the dictator in Tunisia.

You wanna know what I wanna be when I grow up.. a CIA torture training consultant... so many little people governments to train.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

But we didn't start the Cold War.

Oh me oh my 50 million people came back to life like lazarus, thanks, not starting the cold war made killing people worth it.

While I agree that Iraq was horribly mismanaged, there have not been a million deaths. Actually, the most severe count comes to around 600,000. According to WikiLeaks there have been just over 100,000. The only "million" count is from an opinion survey of Iraqis who claim anything for any kind of compensation.

The total death-count post invasion is 1,000,000+ with all sectarian violence included... there happen to be rational people who believe people should be held accountable for not understanding possible aftermath of countries they invade.
flowers and candy... =\
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

It means stop watching tv, go to school, read a book, walk in the park, learn a new language, plant a garden, talk to people from other places and all over the world.

thats what it means...

or we could just say that playing dumb doesnt mean **** when youre talking to people that actually know what they're talking about.

I deem your post pathetic, ignorant, foolish, and pointless.

When you have something of value to add to the discussion, come back. If not, do everyone a favor, and do not spew your meaningless drivel on the forum.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

If I recall correctly, France was the first country to join us in Afghanistan after 9/11. They also are the reason why our country exists thanks to the blockade they held on our shores during the revolutionary war. Don't know why they get such a bad rap from us.

I think they also vote with the U.S. in the UN more often than any other country.

Syria is a former French protectorate, so they feel some responsibility in the area, and also Lebanon. Until around 1967 they were the main military ally of Israel, and France supplies more volunteers to the region than any other country as well. It's a very pro-active country and society, even if not always to the U.S.'s liking.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

For your information, France has sent their own troops on several foreign missions, including special forces troops to help NATO in Afghanistan, a few thousand troops to keep the peace in Cote d'Ivoire, several thousand troops along the Israeli-Lebanon border to enforce the ceasefire, not to mention they and the British contributed heavily to the no-fly zone over Libya during the Libyan Civil War/Uprising with Rafale and Mirage fighters and numerous French Navy ships.

I know it's popular to play the "French are all cheese-eating surrender monkeys" card, but that stereotype doesn't exactly mesh with reality.

It stems from the days when the French were more than happy to turn their country over to the Germans and to help them round up whatever Jews they could find. There were far more collaborators with the Nazis than there were resistance fighters, almost all of whom were Communist Maquis.

They are very tough when dealing with Greenpeace, however.

As General Patton famously said, "I'd rather have the German Army in front of me than the French Army behind me".
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

It stems from the days when the French were more than happy to turn their country over to the Germans and to help them round up whatever Jews they could find. There were far more collaborators with the Nazis than there were resistance fighters, almost all of whom were Communist Maquis.

They are very tough when dealing with Greenpeace, however.

As General Patton famously said, "I'd rather have the German Army in front of me than the French Army behind me".

Tell me when youre ready to hand your kid a rifle in the suburbs of whatever town you live in and have him fire out of a window to elite urban warfare troopers who have been training to raid your cities for years...

living is nicer.

vive la france... =\
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

About the French. Yes, they are a petulent lot. Of late not very dependable, if you ever do business with or through France. I do. They are hard to depend on without also having a plan for if they have a labor hissy fit. They are inefficiant as hell. And have more pompous jackasses per capita than anyone.

I don't have vast experience with French businesses but I've worked under French managers in Silly Con Valley companies and they were excellent managers and 'people' persons, and never had any problems with the French telecom industry and electro-optics people in their tech industries; I must have just been lucky.

However. The French were an enormous help in our Revolutionary War. Not just with their fleet, but also boots-on-the-ground. As to their courage and commitment, and losses, in military campaigns, their losses in WWI were staggering. Beyond anything America can possibly relate to in any war. They are also a country eternally fouled by bad politics, and as in both WW's, bad officers.

Their production miracle in WW I rivaled the Soviet miracle in WW II, though, naturally, on a smaller scale.

All countries are plagued by bad politics and bad officers; it's the overall system that matters, i.e. how quickly those can be corrected in emergencies.

While they have certainly stood tall in the past, at this point in their history, they are shifting to being a bit noodle-spined. They are about to vote back in a socialist, and become whining liberals once again, expecting the gubmit teat to not run dry. Friggin Germans are going to dis-own them again. ;)

Ebb and flow. American industries are just as dependent. France has more small business entrepreneurs per capita than the U.S. does, so I'm not worried about their 'socialist' policies much; they've been around a long time, and will probably survive the U.S. as a country.
 
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Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Ebb and flow. American industries are just as dependent. France has more small business entrepreneurs per capita than the U.S. does, so I'm not worried about their 'socialist' policies much; they've been around a long time, and will probably survive the U.S. as a country.

Although true, there's a reason. French policies make it difficult to grow businesses. As a result small businesses remain small and largely uncompetitive. This is why France isn't exactly a power house economy, and typically has a very high unemployment rate. Of course there are other factors too, but they all tie in.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Tell me when youre ready to hand your kid a rifle in the suburbs of whatever town you live in and have him fire out of a window to elite urban warfare troopers who have been training to raid your cities for years...

living is nicer.

vive la france... =\

Vichy France. Marshall Petain. Ready to turn their Navy over to Hitler after the fall of France until the British sunk it. That pompous ass De Gaulle, who the allies didn't trust enough to provide any information on strategy because they knew he was a self-serving son of a bitch who cared about De Gaulle first and formost.

French troops were reknowned during the Second World War for allowing the Americans and the British to do the heavy fighting. Patton had it just about right.
 
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Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Vichy France. Marshall Petain. Ready to turn their Navy over to Hitler after the fall of France until the British sunk it. That pompous ass De Gaulle, who the allies didn't trust enough to provide any information on strategy because they knew he was a self-serving son of a bitch who cared about De Gaulle first and formost.

French troops were reknowned during the Second World War for allowing the Americans and the British to do the heavy fighting. Patton had it just about right.

Americans and british didnt do heavy fighting... the soviets did...

i keep forgetting what planet some people are from.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Americans and british didnt do heavy fighting... the soviets did...

i keep forgetting what planet some people are from.

Says the guy with "Brony" as his icon.
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Says the guy with "Brony" as his icon.

yes, actually, the guy with a degree in russian and post soviet studies

The western front had the ability to negotiate state servitude to germany
The eastern Europe faced genocide, slavery, and cultural annihilation, and fought approximately %70 percent of the war by many estimates
The only comparable troop experience for Americans in the history of the us is the navy in the pacific doing WWII... as far as psychological trauma

ehh... you fight in a war?
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

France has had a backbone for a long time. They and Great Britain stood up to Hitler in 1939 when he invaded Poland -- and we didn't until Japan attacked us 2 years later. France has a proud military tradition that includes Napolean. It includes helping us gain our independence from Britain.

France stood up to Hitler, but their strategy (the Maginot Line) was flawed. That doesn't take anything away from how hard French soldiers fought to protect their country and later to regain it. They did get very well deserved help from the US, Britain, and other countries to retake their country. They do owe us some some gratitude, but we owe the same to them.

Recently the French played and extremely important role in the overthrow of Kaddaffi.

The stereotype of the French as cowards who immediately surrender is one of the most unfair stereotypes in the world.
 
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yes, actually, the guy with a degree in russian and post soviet studies

The western front had the ability to negotiate state servitude to germany
The eastern Europe faced genocide, slavery, and cultural annihilation, and fought approximately %70 percent of the war by many estimates
The only comparable troop experience for Americans in the history of the us is the navy in the pacific doing WWII... as far as psychological trauma

ehh... you fight in a war?

I'm going to start responding to your posts like you respond to others. Forgive me, I have to practice the incoherent and irrelevant commenting style which will have no relevance whatsoever to the subject at hand, the OP or in fact, any comment or information shared so far.


Brony ponies seem a bit colorful for creepy degree University graduates.

The average graduate seems to drink a lot of alcohol. Generally alcohol use in small amounts helps the heart and blood circulation, social interaction and in every war since WWI, social interaction has been lacking probably due to the lack of approximately 93% of leaders not speaking the same language.

Comparably, most leaders seem to have pets, and dogs have been part of wars since WWII, and FDR had a dog and was very fond of dogs, yet so did Hitler.

Ever eat a dog?
 
Re: France, suddenly has backbone

Americans and british didnt do heavy fighting... the soviets did...

i keep forgetting what planet some people are from.



he's right guys I mean normandy was just a day at the beach and what about monte cassino? Just another exuse for the yanks and Tommies to sit around and eat pasta, lazy
 
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Re: France, suddenly has backbone

That's not entirely accurate. The Arabs/Muslims are responsible for a lot of atrocities not only in Asia, but in Europe as well.

But not World War. It is true that the identification of the African black as a slave stemmed from Islam via the Arab Slave Trade (before the Atlantic Slave Trade). It is also true that the first colonizers were Arabs. But these matters affected local environment. Hundreds of millions of corpses around the globe in the 20th century came from two different parties that white people hosted (Japanese add/on). I don't mean to downplay religious terror out of Islam, but we have to keep a certain perspective with this. We should be thankful that Islam doesn't hold any true military power within it beause this is where we find major conflict. And true military belongs entirely to the Western world.
 
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