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Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

I completely agree. If a soldier suffers from PTSD, returns home, and starts beating on his wife, the psychological trauma might be an explanation for his behavior, but it's still morally wrong. I think it's fine to judge, as long as you also make an attempt to understand.

I also think some understanding needs to be given to the differences between what is essentially a war zone and what is civilian life. If this was a random soldier posing with some dead guy in the middle of Richmond I imagine my, and others, views would be different. A bit of understanding of the realities of the situation play into it too.
 
The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.
 
I am forever shocked and amazed how in the wake of 9/11, or the Iraq war, or other such things we have people streaming onto the television and forums and places like this telling us how we have to "understand" how they feel, to "sympathize" with what they've gone through, and "see it through their eyes" rather than just having the gutteral reaction of "**** them, kill'em all". However, when it comes to our soldiers...any attempt what so ever to "understand" or "sympathize" or "see things through their eyes" is "excusing" and "justifying" them it seems.

When it comes to terrorism/violence/I-P and other such issues, I always try to make a very fine distinction between what I believe is understandable vs. what I think is justified.
 
I'm not outraged at the photos. I understand the stress that causes these kinds of things to be done. But given the fact that these photos have a history of being posted on the internet -- or passed along to someone else who does -- these soldiers are too stupid to be soldiers. Send them home with a dishonorable discharge immediately. Make announcements to every deployed soldier that they're going to get a dishonorable discharge. And then do it forthwith.
 
The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.

For reference, this incident occurred in 2010.

I personally believe the military has tried to do plenty when it comes to mental care and deployment tempo, although of course things can always be improved.
 
The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.

:roll: yeah, we need to stop killing terrorists :roll:
 
I'm not outraged at the photos. I understand the stress that causes these kinds of things to be done. But given the fact that these photos have a history of being posted on the internet -- or passed along to someone else who does -- these soldiers are too stupid to be soldiers. Send them home with a dishonorable discharge immediately. Make announcements to every deployed soldier that they're going to get a dishonorable discharge. And then do it forthwith.


yeah...let's ruin the rest of their lives over a stupid mistake that, when it really comes down to it, didn't hurt anyone.
 
I'm sorry, but the whole "You've never been in combat so you can't judge" thing is stupid. If that were the case, men should never be able to judge against abortion as they have never known what it's like to be pregnant.

You can judge anything you want, you're just doing it from ignorance.
 
yeah...let's ruin the rest of their lives over a stupid mistake that, when it really comes down to it, didn't hurt anyone.

Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?
 
Once again, there's a difference between explaining and understanding behavior, and excusing or condoning it.

When the story of the Marines pissing on dead Taliban came out, I thought morally it was dead wrong. With this? I wouldn't go so far to say that it's wrong, but it is kinda messed up. That is me exercising my moral judgment, and I don't believe this kind of behavior is condonable (sp?) or excusable or justifiable if we're to talk about troops behaving honorably.

HOWEVER...while I don't think what these guys did was right, it's also important to understand why brutalization and dehumanization happens in war. It is important to understand the psychological conditions under which this behavior takes place, and to understand why exactly it happens. That is not excusing or condoning the behavior - it is attempting to understand it.

And it should be noted that at worst, these guys desecrated already dead bodies. They didn't hide behind civilians, turn children into suicide bombers, or torture anyone.
 
And it should be noted that at worst, these guys desecrated already dead bodies. They didn't hide behind civilians, turn children into suicide bombers, or torture anyone.

To be fair, I don't think we should judge our troops by the standards of the enemy, because we are better than them and are supposed to hold the moral high ground. Our troops, at least according to the public's and their own stated expectations, are supposed to behave in a moral, disciplined, and professional manner.

It's kinda like a Lakers fan being content with a 2nd round playoff exit because the Lakers are still better than the Wizards. Totally different set of standards.
 
Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?

In actuality, it didn't. It was wrong, in poor taste, etc etc. But weigh it against what happens on the other side. If this is the worst of behavior that ten years of war produces on our side of the fence, then we've succeed in taking the high road.
 
To be fair, I don't think we should judge our troops by the standards of the enemy, because we are better than them and are supposed to hold the moral high ground. Our troops, at least according to the public's and their own stated expectations, are supposed to behave in a moral, disciplined, and professional manner.

It's kinda like a Lakers fan being content with a 2nd round playoff exit because the Lakers are still better than the Wizards. Totally different set of standards.

And also to be fair, this was nothing in comparison to what they do. We are better then them. The guys that are guilty of this idiocy are better than them, even now.
 
Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?

you've never seen me say that ROE saves american lives. those same people who say that are also the ones who piss and moan over pics of dead bodies. the only lives that ROE save are the enemy's, they are so damn restrictive that you basically have to wait until one of your guys gets shot before you can engage the enemy and even then only if you have a perfectly clear shot at them and they aren't in a mosque and there is no possibility for collateral damage and it's between 5 and 7 o'clock on a tuesday evening in a month ending in R.
 
I agree, they should all be dishonorably discharged from the military, as should those who pissed on the dead bodies.

Panetta said it best when he said this is not who we are.

They should be punished (even demoted), counseled and allowed to return to duty.
 
They should be punished (even demoted), counseled and allowed to return to duty.


What rates a dishonorable discharge in your book?
 
What rates a dishonorable discharge in your book?

It's not my book you need to worry about. It's the UCMJ. What they did was stupid antics following a firefight. They did not commit war crimes, they did not slaughter civilians, rape, pillage or murder. They at worst disobeyed standing orders, a crime usually warranting reduction in grade and perhaps some confinement and a fine.
 
I'm just sick of it continuing to pop up: it happend in 2010 - we're just now hearing about it . . . I stopped having negative emotional reactions (or well - just any sort of reaction) quite some time ago.

We have some stupid people who do dumb things and get caught. Who doesn't!
 
It's not my book you need to worry about. It's the UCMJ. What they did was stupid antics following a firefight. They did not commit war crimes, they did not slaughter civilians, rape, pillage or murder. They at worst disobeyed standing orders, a crime usually warranting reduction in grade and perhaps some confinement and a fine.

Here was what Vet Voice stated about the Marines who pissed on the corpses:

"these actions violate the General Order 1 ban on corpse desecration. So these Marines are looking at the possibility of a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years under Article 92, UCMJ."

VetVoice:: Marines Investigating Corpse Desecration
 
i'm not bothered by pics of dead enemies like this.... not in the least.... it's not like they are humans anyways.( dehumanization of the enemy is imperative)
civilians who have never been faced with such an environment simply do not understand, in any meaningful way, what it's like to dehumanize.. it's an abstract notion to them ( which is something combat vets tend to forget).

when your days in boots are over, you'll have to come to grips with such things, and you have to be able to look at people though an entirely different prism.
you'll no longer be able to dehumanize, nor should you...... but while in boots, yeah.. you aren't dealing with humans at all, you are dealing with, at best, meat bags with guns that are trying their level best to kill you.

so yeah.. take your pictures with your dead targets, I don't mind... but be mindful that there are a whole bunch of people who will not and cannot understand it, and keep those pictures to yourself or other warrior who do understand.
 
Here was what Vet Voice stated about the Marines who pissed on the corpses:

"these actions violate the General Order 1 ban on corpse desecration. So these Marines are looking at the possibility of a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years under Article 92, UCMJ."

VetVoice:: Marines Investigating Corpse Desecration

Article 92 is failure to obey an order. Not all provisions in general orders or regulations can be enforced under Article 92(1). Regulations which only supply general guide-lines or advice for conducting military functions may not be enforceable under Article 92.
 
Without reading all 8 pages of posts, all I can say is this:

If there was ever proof that the USofA needs to get out of these countries ASAP it's stuff like this that should put the final nail in that coffin.

Bring everybody home. Now. Get our people out of there. No matter where "there" may be. Bring them all home. Now.
 
When you're a soldier you're held to a higher standard. However it's understandable when soldiers do these things. All lot of these people these soldiers are fighting have killed their comrades, their loved ones, or innocents. They really are like trash, and so it's understandable to treat them like it no matter what the higher-ups in clean uniforms think.
 
Article 92 is failure to obey an order. Not all provisions in general orders or regulations can be enforced under Article 92(1). Regulations which only supply general guide-lines or advice for conducting military functions may not be enforceable under Article 92.

Vet Voice obviously believes that failure to obey General Order !, Ban on desecration of corpses, would be enforced under Article 92.
 
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