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Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Court?

Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
No spin involved -- just economics 101.
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What has the health bill got to do with economics?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Grant said:
What has the health bill got to do with economics?
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It's a tax policy thing -- you wouldn't understand.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
It's a tax policy thing -- you wouldn't understand.
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Actually no one understands it because no one has read it.

The people who passed it never read it, the President never read it and it's unlikely the Supreme Court will read it.

But you support it, do you?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Grant said:
Actually no one understands it because no one has read it.

The people who passed it never read it, the President never read it and it's unlikely the Supreme Court will read it.

But you support it, do you?
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I hate to break this to you, but you could probably say the same thing about any non-trivial bill. The bills are read by staffers and the legislators are provided with summaries so they do in fact know what's in them.

But call me crazy -- I read War and Peace, Gravity's Rainbow, and Ulysses even though they're really long. I guess I never knew that there was a direct correlation between quality and page count.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
I hate to break this to you, but you could probably say the same thing about any non-trivial bill. The bills are read by staffers and the legislators are provided with summaries so they do in fact know what's in them.

But call me crazy -- I read War and Peace, Gravity's Rainbow, and Ulysses even though they're really long. I guess I never knew that there was a direct correlation between quality and page count.
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Right. So you don't know what's in it either.

Have the staffers let the American public in on the deal? Or do you support it just because you trust Barack Obama, Mr. Hopeychangey, that its all gotta be good?. You think he's read it?

Who authored it? Do you at least know that?

And even though Nancy Pelosi said "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it", you still don't know.

But no worries. You'll support it anyway, and so will all the other Kool Aid drinkers.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Grant said:
Right. So you don't know what's in it either.

Have the staffers let the American public in on the deal? Or do you support it just because you trust Barack Obama, Mr. Hopeychangey, that its all gotta be good?. You think he's read it?

Who authored it? Do you at least know that?

And even though Nancy Pelosi said "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it", you still don't know.

But no worries. You'll support it anyway, and so will all the other Kool Aid drinkers.
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I've read a lot of it, and certainly several detailed summaries. See, there's nothing at all preventing the American people from learning about the bill -- except for laziness and partisan bias. Did you want Ms. Pelosi to spoon feed it to you like a little baby? Is that how you think democracy works?

As far as who wrote it -- like all bills it was drafted by the congressional drafting service. Both houses of Congress have legislative drafting offices staffed with lawyers who are experts in their respective fields. And like all bills, you can bet that lobbyists drafted a lot of it.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
AdamT wrote:


j-mac wrote:


Yes, if something can be directly regulated it can be directly regulated. :shrug:

Congress has the power to create tax incentives for pretty much anything, which is what the "mandate" actually is: a tax incentive to buy insurance. It's no different than the tax incentive to buy solar panels or home mortgages or hybrid/electric cars.
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Oh, so now it is a tax....In other arguments it isn't....Look, if I don't own something, and you say that you want to regulate it, you can't regulate me unless I own it...Then you want to force me to buy it so you can regulate it? That is just not right.


j-mac
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

j-mac said:
Oh, so now it is a tax....In other arguments it isn't....Look, if I don't own something, and you say that you want to regulate it, you can't regulate me unless I own it...Then you want to force me to buy it so you can regulate it? That is just not right.


j-mac
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He's likely not concerned with what's right, only with what's fair.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

j-mac said:
Oh, so now it is a tax....In other arguments it isn't....Look, if I don't own something, and you say that you want to regulate it, you can't regulate me unless I own it...Then you want to force me to buy it so you can regulate it? That is just not right.

j-mac
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No, you're not getting it. You're being regulated either way.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
No, you're not getting it. You're being regulated either way.
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Well, then you can not regulate me if I don't own what you are regulating.

j-mac
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
I've read a lot of it, and certainly several detailed summaries. See, there's nothing at all preventing the American people from learning about the bill -- except for laziness and partisan bias. Did you want Ms. Pelosi to spoon feed it to you like a little baby? Is that how you think democracy works?

As far as who wrote it -- like all bills it was drafted by the congressional drafting service. Both houses of Congress have legislative drafting offices staffed with lawyers who are experts in their respective fields. And like all bills, you can bet that lobbyists drafted a lot of it.
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What I'm surprised we haven't seen is the summary provided to Congress. That would be telling -- kind of like Transparency 101.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

MaggieD said:
What I'm surprised we haven't seen is the summary provided to Congress. That would be telling -- kind of like Transparency 101.
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My understanding is that Apollo and The Tides Foundation wrote it (Soros). I'm still waiting for the open debate promised us on CSPAN...LOL
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Rapunzel52 said:
My understanding is that Apollo and The Tides Foundation wrote it (Soros). I'm still waiting for the open debate promised us on CSPAN...LOL
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Are there any cites to support your understanding?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Are there any cites to support your understanding?
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Nope, haven't got a dang thing. Just speculation by several. I don't know if we will ever really knew who wrote it, but I can betcha it weren't no conservative org.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Rapunzel52 said:
Nope, haven't got a dang thing. Just speculation by several. I don't know if we will ever really knew who wrote it, but I can betcha it weren't no conservative org.
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You can betcha that the guts of it were originally drafted by the conservative Heritage Foundation, and I do have a cites.

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

And of course it's no coincidence that Obamacare closely resembles the plan implemented by Mitt Romney -- the GOP frontrunner. Both plans were heavily influenced by MIT economist Jonathon Gruber (who said that they are "the same ****ing bill"). Jonathan Gruber (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
You can betcha that the guts of it were originally drafted by the conservative Heritage Foundation, and I do have a cites.

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

And of course it's no coincidence that Obamacare closely resembles the plan implemented by Mitt Romney -- the GOP frontrunner. Both plans were heavily influenced by MIT economist Jonathon Gruber (who said that they are "the same ****ing bill"). Jonathan Gruber (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Well I'm not in love with any of the Republican runners and they ain't conservative. I don't consider RINO'S as cons...sorry.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
You can betcha that the guts of it were originally drafted by the conservative Heritage Foundation, and I do have a cites.

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

And of course it's no coincidence that Obamacare closely resembles the plan implemented by Mitt Romney -- the GOP frontrunner. Both plans were heavily influenced by MIT economist Jonathon Gruber (who said that they are "the same ****ing bill"). Jonathan Gruber (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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From your own link:

UPDATE: John Goodman says: “Did the ideas behind ObamaCare originate at the Heritage Foundation? I would say ‘no.’ They originated with [Stanford economist] Alain Enthoven. But Heritage played a role.” I’ll have more on the history of the individual mandate in a future post.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Apollo, Tides, and Unions like SEIU openly bragged about writing the Stimulus, and Cap and Trade legislation, it wouldn't be surprising that these same players played a heavy role in Health Care as well. But, it is really going to be a moot point when the SCOTUS strikes down the law anyway.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Apollo, Tides, and Unions like SEIU openly bragged about writing the Stimulus, and Cap and Trade legislation, it wouldn't be surprising that these same players played a heavy role in Health Care as well. But, it is really going to be a moot point when the SCOTUS strikes down the law anyway.


j-mac
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Counting chickens

The difference between a democrat and a republican is who owes the favor, the politican or the business
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

xpiher said:
Counting chickens

The difference between a democrat and a republican is who owes the favor, the politican or the business
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Not at all...But as an educated guess, I would say that should HC fall in the SC, and gas prices continue to rise, along with dismal jobs reports then it would be nearly impossible for him to gain a second term.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Not at all...But as an educated guess, I would say that should HC fall in the SC, and gas prices continue to rise, along with dismal jobs reports then it would be nearly impossible for him to gain a second term.

j-mac
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I was taking about three SC striking down the entire law
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
No spin involved -- just economics 101.
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Yeah, sure. :roll:

AdamT said:
The bills are read by staffers and the legislators are provided with summaries so they do in fact know what's in them.
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Could you explain to us how the staffers read the bill and put forth a summary of the bill, that either was not completely written when they passed, it, or only finished 2 days before they passed it (depending on what you believe)?

2700+ pages read in two days and a good summary put together? Uh huh.

AdamT said:
See, there's nothing at all preventing the American people from learning about the bill -- except for laziness and partisan bias.
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What ever happened to that promise of having legislation available on line like a week before it get's voted on? Or does that qualify as a lie the president told that needs to go in the 'obama lies thread'?

Did you want Ms. Pelosi to spoon feed it to you like a little baby?
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LOL. The crazy woman that said they need to pass it to see what is in it, spoon feed what she doesn't even know? Man you are funny.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

xpiher said:
I was taking about three SC striking down the entire law
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OH, my bad. Well, I think on that front, chances are more than likely a 5-4 decision. Could be 6-3 then Obama would be done for sure.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
OH, my bad. Well, I think on that front, chances are more than likely a 5-4 decision. Could be 6-3 then Obama would be done for sure.


j-mac
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only the mandate will get shot down if anything is. And that can easily be a positive thing for Obama since he never wanted it.
 
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