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Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Court?

Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

ReverendHellh0und said:
You did not answer it, yo dodged it.

How many?
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No, I answered it. Again, you not liking the answer is not the same thing as me not answering. Why don't you try responding to what I actually wrote instead of pretending I didn't write it?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
The mandate isn't about health care; it's about health insurance.
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Well, if we are whining about who answered what, then maybe you can get to my question in 317.

But to address the portion I quoted above, we do not have "insurance" in this country anymore. What we have now are benefit plans that are subsidies of our lifestyles, and the question before us is whom is going to pay for that.


j-mac
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

j-mac said:
Well, if we are whining about who answered what, then maybe you can get to my question in 317.
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AdamT wrote:
So AGAIN ... I (and the Supreme Court) make the distinction between directly regulating interstate commerce (i.e. the health insurance market) and regulating things -- like home sales -- that might have an INDIRECT affect on interstate commerce.
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j-mac wrote:
Can you regulate either if they haven't been purchased?
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Yes, if something can be directly regulated it can be directly regulated. :shrug:

Congress has the power to create tax incentives for pretty much anything, which is what the "mandate" actually is: a tax incentive to buy insurance. It's no different than the tax incentive to buy solar panels or home mortgages or hybrid/electric cars.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Congress has the power to create tax incentives for pretty much anything, which is what the "mandate" actually is: a tax incentive to buy insurance. It's no different than the tax incentive to buy solar panels or home mortgages or hybrid/electric cars.
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I don't recall any 'tax incentives' that charge you money if you do not do something. Seems in general they give you a tax break if you do something.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Arbo said:
I don't recall any 'tax incentives' that charge you money if you do not do something. Seems in general they give you a tax break if you do something.
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Functionally there is no difference at all. Say, instead of having a $900 tax penalty, Congress had passed a $900 tax credit for buying insurance, with a commensurate reduction in the personal exemptions to keep it revenue neutral. What's the result? If you have insurance you come out even. If you don't have insurance you pay an extra $900 relative to those who do have insurance. Exactly the same result as having a $900 penalty.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Functionally there is no difference at all. Say, instead of having a $900 tax penalty, Congress had passed a $900 tax credit for buying insurance, with a commensurate reduction in the personal exemptions to keep it revenue neutral. What's the result? If you have insurance you come out even. If you don't have insurance you pay an extra $900 relative to those who do have insurance. Exactly the same result as having a $900 penalty.
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The same thing? Hmm. Last I checked I did not have to pay a penalty for not buying a hybrid car or solar panels for my house.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Arbo said:
The same thing? Hmm. Last I checked I did not have to pay a penalty for not buying a hybrid car or solar panels for my house.
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Well then you better check again, because if someone is getting a tax preference that you are not -- rest assured that you are paying for it, or will soon in the form of higher taxes and/or reduced services. Remember ... there is no free lunch.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Well then you better check again, because if someone is getting a tax preference that you are not -- rest assured that you are paying for it, or will soon in the form of higher taxes and/or reduced services. Remember ... there is no free lunch.
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Man you spin fast.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Arbo said:
Man you spin fast.[/QUOTEt

Those who support this health bill are forced to spin. Like the president himself, they certainly don't have knowledge on their side. What else can they do?
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Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Well then you better check again, because if someone is getting a tax preference that you are not -- rest assured that you are paying for it, or will soon in the form of higher taxes and/or reduced services. Remember ... there is no free lunch.
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And you agree with this? You think it's a good thing that things like the Chevy Volt get a 10K government subsidy PER UNIT?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

KevinKohler said:
And you agree with this? You think it's a good thing that things like the Chevy Volt get a 10K government subsidy PER UNIT?
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Der problem es dat no vun woot buy Herr Obama's Voltswagen mit owt der subsidy, und day vil not buy it anyway.

Voot you buy a used Voltswagen frum das President?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Functionally there is no difference at all. Say, instead of having a $900 tax penalty, Congress had passed a $900 tax credit for buying insurance, with a commensurate reduction in the personal exemptions to keep it revenue neutral. What's the result? If you have insurance you come out even. If you don't have insurance you pay an extra $900 relative to those who do have insurance. Exactly the same result as having a $900 penalty.
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I'm beginning to see where your logic is. However there is a fundamental issue.

When I shop at Lowe's, I get a 10% military discount. That is not a 10% penalty to you that is a discount to me. Can you imagine the outrage if Lowes get it the opposite way? Only military could get the price on the shelf, everyone else had to pay 10% more.

If the Congress had written it as a tax credit that was fiscally neutral, It may have been viewed differently. However writing it as a penalty changes the entire ballgame.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Grant said:
Hard to believe his claims that he went to a prestigious university and was allegedly taught something about constitutional law. Perhaps he should surrender his diploma for inspection, along with his birth certificate, his hospital records and his passport.
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The only reason Ubama studied Constitutional Law is to find ways around it, if that isn't clear by now, I don't know what is.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
1) I think that it would be irresponsible to overturn 75 years of precedent that was instrumental in the creation of the social safety net, desegration, and a host of other important policies, yes;

2) In ratifying the mandate the Court wouldn't be giving Congress any power that it doesn't already have.
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what you are saying is that crappy decisions that created 75 years of dishonest precedent are ok because they allowed congress to create stuff you like

that sort of attitude is why the country's going down the toilet
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
Well then you better check again, because if someone is getting a tax preference that you are not -- rest assured that you are paying for it, or will soon in the form of higher taxes and/or reduced services. Remember ... there is no free lunch.
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Yeah the top one percent are paying too much so everyone else can

1) pay too less to fund what the left wants

2) or can demand more government than they are willing to pay for
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

JasonI said:
Who's Ubama?
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It's the president of course. I spell his name like that because during the whole Osama killing, all the major networks including Fox, spelled Osama as Usama so as not to confuse the public between the president and Osama. I thought it was hysterical and have spelled Obama as Ubama ever since. As far as middle east spelling this is an acceptable spelling of his name.

Do you remember the Ted Kennedy video where he confused Osama and Obama??? OMG that was hysterical.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Rapunzel52 said:
It's the president of course. I spell his name like that because during the whole Osama killing, all the major networks including Fox, spelled Osama as Usama so as not to confuse the public between the president and Osama. I thought it was hysterical and have spelled Obama as Ubama ever since. As far as middle east spelling this is an acceptable spelling of his name.

Do you remember the Ted Kennedy video where he confused Osama and Obama??? OMG that was hysterical.
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Oh, do you live in the middle east?
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Rapunzel52 said:
It's the president of course. I spell his name like that because during the whole Osama killing, all the major networks including Fox, spelled Osama as Usama so as not to confuse the public between the president and Osama. I thought it was hysterical and have spelled Obama as Ubama ever since. As far as middle east spelling this is an acceptable spelling of his name.

Do you remember the Ted Kennedy video where he confused Osama and Obama??? OMG that was hysterical.
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So apparently you only watch Fox News? Because they are the only ones who spelled it "Usama". :lol:

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden killed in Pak - YouTube

Osama Bin Laden Dead: Inside the Top Secret Operation - YouTube

Osama bin Laden is dead, Obama Speech at White House - YouTube

OSAMA BIN LADEN REPORTED DEAD - YouTube
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
So apparently you only watch Fox News? Because they are the only ones who spelled it "Usama". :lol:

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden killed in Pak - YouTube

Osama Bin Laden Dead: Inside the Top Secret Operation - YouTube

Osama bin Laden is dead, Obama Speech at White House - YouTube

OSAMA BIN LADEN REPORTED DEAD - YouTube
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Not on live TV...they did not. I watched it on several channels, including CNN. If they changed it now, not my problem. Regardless he will always be Ubama to me.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Chiefgator said:
I'm beginning to see where your logic is. However there is a fundamental issue.

When I shop at Lowe's, I get a 10% military discount. That is not a 10% penalty to you that is a discount to me. Can you imagine the outrage if Lowes get it the opposite way? Only military could get the price on the shelf, everyone else had to pay 10% more.

If the Congress had written it as a tax credit that was fiscally neutral, It may have been viewed differently. However writing it as a penalty changes the entire ballgame.
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Well, the truth is that it IS a penalty to anyone who doesn't get the discount, because the store takes your discount into consideration when it sets prices. So in order to meet their target profit ratio they probably bump all their prices something like 0.25% in order to come out even on their 10% military discount.

There is actually a good reason to write the "mandate" as a penalty rather than a credit, even though though they are the same thing from an accounting perspective. The idea, in either case, is to encourage more people to buy insurance. Studies tell us that calling something a penalty, as opposed to a credit, is more effective in achieving the desired goal. In other words, if you tell someone they will get a $1,000 credit to do X they will be less likely to do it than they would be if you told them that they would have to pay a $1,000 penalty for NOT doing X (again -- even though it's the same thing from an accounting standpoint).

Of course in this case it may have had a bit too much of a psychological impact. ;)
 
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Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Arbo said:
Man you spin fast.
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No spin involved -- just economics 101.
 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

Rapunzel52 said:
Not on live TV...they did not. I watched it on several channels, including CNN. If they changed it now, not my problem. Regardless he will always be Ubama to me.
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The Youtube videos are simply recorded TV broadcasts. :roll:

 
Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

AdamT said:
The Youtube videos are simply recorded TV broadcasts. :roll:

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Some of those were local not national and I know I saw it on several channels and you do not have all the broadcasts on this.
 
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