• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in California

you've had a homicidal killer put a gun in your face, when you were 19 years old and unarmed??????

Yes..... When i was 16-17 in fact, and I behaved the same way.





Never again.
 
Last edited:
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Yes..... When i was 16-17 in fact, and I behaved the same way.....

and that's why you have no right to judge.

nevermind the incredible lack of sympathy you have for these poor victims.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Oh, now we have the pile-ons.

COMMENT ON THE FREAKIN' THREAD OR GO AWAY, DAMN IT.

I cannot believe that after over a year on this board anyone would think I'd post this thread as bait. Or to exploit dead students, for God's sake. You few make me sick. Especially Redress.

You provided no insight on the story other than suggesting that congress should look into it. If people wish to comment on the motives of your request, the legitimacy of the request, or the idea of such a request in relation to the action that occured then they are discussing the topic YOU presented in the OP. YOU chose to be exploitative and attempt to capitalize on the deaths of others to push your own political issues with the Trayvon Martin case, and if people disagree with doing such a thing or using this horrific incident to do such, YOU have to deal with it just like anyone else that makes a disgusting political point has to deal with people disagreeing with them about it
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Ok, what can be done about this situation....

No rule will keep someone from going nuts and shooting someone. Last time I checked, it was illegal to walk into any school in the country and shoot students/teachers/principal. Rules do not appear to have stopped them

On the flip side.....Arming teachers/students is just putting a band-aid on all the moral failures of our country. Maybe we should concentrate on not needing the guns anymore. Do we really want to send the message to our kids that you have to have a gun to be safe, even at school?

Teachers and students have the right to a safe environment in which to learn, in this case I think it is up to the state to provide it.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Hell Hound-
I am not too worried about expressing my views on gun rights,control and carry. I have noticed that when people maintain an even strain all goes well. You said you went to war? Where and what unit? We might know some of the same swinging richards...

Ockham-
I agree a forlorn hope is better than no hope but quite frankly CCW is more for the peace of mind of the carrier than the world at large. What I was addressing is the typical wag sitting there saying, "If I was there with my GUN, that sh*t woulda been over pretty damn quick, I tell ya what!" I used to work at a Tactical School and the quick exercise to show what stress does to marksmanship had me convinced most barns and their sides would be safe. Not being mean, just frank.

Muciti-
I went back and read your post claiming shootings. You need to go back and check your 'facts'. You cite TOTAL deaths as shooting deaths. I picked the highest one, the 2009-2010 school year as an example. There were 7 not 11 shooting deaths.

A 15yo pregnant girl was shot and killed at a bus stop, so it was counted, a 36yo also also suspected of raping her, his adopted sister, was held for the crime.

16yo was shot walking home from school, gangs are suspected.

16yo shot by a human resource officer after the student stabbed him.

16yo honors student was caught in the crossfire of rival gangs after the homecoming game.

Woman shot at bus stop infront of her kids by her boyfriend, he later shot himself.

School police officer shoots a 28yo near an alternative school while attempting to break up a fight

43 ya woman shot and killed near an elementary school playground after she refused to put down her meat cleaver. She had apparently had been cutting herself with it.

So there are your 7 not 11 shooting deaths, the others were 3 stabbings and one fighting.

Of the 4 on actual school property only one was not the authorities either under attack or breaking up an attack. Only the honor student shot in a gang bang shootout out in the parking lot of the football stadium comes close to similar to the VT or Oakland shootings.

I love facts, but like my weapons, I like them to be accurate. :peace
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

You provided no insight on the story other than suggesting that congress should look into it. If people wish to comment on the motives of your request, the legitimacy of the request, or the idea of such a request in relation to the action that occured then they are discussing the topic YOU presented in the OP. YOU chose to be exploitative and attempt to capitalize on the deaths of others to push your own political issues with the Trayvon Martin case, and if people disagree with doing such a thing or using this horrific incident to do such, YOU have to deal with it just like anyone else that makes a disgusting political point has to deal with people disagreeing with them about it

I made no political point. Zyphlin, much LESS a disgusting one. You're guilty of resurrecting something that was buried. Good for you Nice job!!

When someone says, **** you and **** you and **** ya'll, that's over the top. The fact that you don't recognize this? That's you're problem. Get off my case, Zyphlin. It's over. It's done.
 
Last edited:
Hell Hound-
I am not too worried about expressing my views on gun rights,control and carry. I have noticed that when people maintain an even strain all goes well. You said you went to war? Where and what unit? We might know some of the same swinging richards...

Ockham-
I agree a forlorn hope is better than no hope but quite frankly CCW is more for the peace of mind of the carrier than the world at large. What I was addressing is the typical wag sitting there saying, "If I was there with my GUN, that sh*t woulda been over pretty damn quick, I tell ya what!" I used to work at a Tactical School and the quick exercise to show what stress does to marksmanship had me convinced most barns and their sides would be safe. Not being mean, just frank.

Muciti-
I went back and read your post claiming shootings. You need to go back and check your 'facts'. You cite TOTAL deaths as shooting deaths. I picked the highest one, the 2009-2010 school year as an example. There were 7 not 11 shooting deaths.

A 15yo pregnant girl was shot and killed at a bus stop, so it was counted, a 36yo also also suspected of raping her, his adopted sister, was held for the crime.

16yo was shot walking home from school, gangs are suspected.

16yo shot by a human resource officer after the student stabbed him.

16yo honors student was caught in the crossfire of rival gangs after the homecoming game.

Woman shot at bus stop infront of her kids by her boyfriend, he later shot himself.

School police officer shoots a 28yo near an alternative school while attempting to break up a fight

43 ya woman shot and killed near an elementary school playground after she refused to put down her meat cleaver. She had apparently had been cutting herself with it.

So there are your 7 not 11 shooting deaths, the others were 3 stabbings and one fighting.

Of the 4 on actual school property only one was not the authorities either under attack or breaking up an attack. Only the honor student shot in a gang bang shootout out in the parking lot of the football stadium comes close to similar to the VT or Oakland shootings.

I love facts, but like my weapons, I like them to be accurate. :peace



I am a gulf war vet was in the balkans and am a former pmc well before we were called pmc's. I no longer give my unit out as a now banned poster caused me a nusiance in the past...

if you have questions about my service even d school mods i tangle with would probably confirm.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Good thing you guys are above using a ****ing tragedy to score cheap ****ing political points. It's good to know there are no depths some people will not ****ing stoop to. Keep up the good work.

You mean it's not time for even more gun control laws?
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

This is not the wild wild west movies. We are also not talking about a tactical murderer here, using military training, cover and movement to kill people. Of the little interviews I've seen in the news reports, the guy stood straight up and it was reported "calmly shot at targets". Granted, you have a point that under stress, shooting a handgun for those not used to doing such a thing in a life & death environment does effect accuracy. Yet, I'd certainly be willing to have a small chance to stop a deranged shooter in a school vs. no chance.

You are correct, the other poster's comments are devoid of tactical awareness or training in this issue
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

You mean it's not time for even more gun control laws?

If I were for more gun laws(I am not), I think I would time it a little better.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

You're playing a game of gotcha', Redress. Frankly, that sucks. Comment on the post or move along. I'm defending myself from a RIDICULOUS attack by YOU. I would have thought you would be above that.

I'll repeat: Where is Congress on this issue? Where are the hearings? School shootings/mass murder that's become epidemic is surely as important as any other hearings they could hold.

Oh, and by the way, Redress, in case you've forgotten, Congress is made up of, wait!for!it!, Dems and Reps. Partisan my lily white ass.

They'll be along soon enough. Wait until the Martin shooting runs out of gas; which will probably happen sooner than expected, so they can crawl all over this.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

If I were for more gun laws(I am not), I think I would time it a little better.

When would be a better time?

I'm with Maggie on this one; we never see you complain when a Libbo posts something like this. Why is that?
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Hell Hound-
just trying to get a handle on the level of combat experience you have. your shorthand for your duties and such are too truncated for me. I have a low IQ, I was 11B... ;)

Ockham-
Never heard the term tactical murderer before, learn something new everyday. What most people forget is in this situation the gunman has his weapon out and up, the CCW has to draw from under the concealing clothes and present on target before the gunman watching you can react. It is a forlorn hope. Now perhaps you envision the situation as you are in another room and have time to present before stepping out into the hallway, but even that is a tough gunfight unless your room is behind him and you are very quiet, the hostages don't eyeball you hard enough to get his attention, etc.

You don't want to spring out like on TV but pie the door.

Next is what most civilians shy away from, you have to stand up straight, square up on the badguy and place the front sight on his chest and squeeze, lather rinse repeat. Tactics are simple and brutal, you literally stand your ground and engage in as calm a manner as you can manage knowing damn well you are going to get shot. It isn't a video game, it's front and center halt the threat even if you go down too.

All the springing around, diving and rolling is for Hollywood. If you think it is a different way your kidding yourself.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

I appreciate what your trying to show here, however, the first link is in virginia. That is not congress.
I just read it. Definitely from the US House. It is in reference to the Virginia Tech shootings.

Maybe. I would love to someone examine that possibility. But I suspect it's more complicated than that.
I think it would be interesting to look at as well. Apart from a race standpoint, the pressure some youth are placed under to compete/succeed has to play some role, I'm sure. We live in a culture where failure and being 2nd best generally isn't acceptable (which isn't a bad thing for those emotionally capable of handling it). The pre-post adolescent years are very emotionally trying times for young people and the stress some might be placed under may be too much for them to comprehend or deal with without the intellectual wherewithal to know what is happening to them. From a personal example, I know that my two high school aged nieces feel far much more pressure to get good grades, wear the right clothes, be good at sports, stay involved, altogether reach for the top than I did when I was in high school AND the pressure started much earlier in school than for me. Schools seem to get far more cutthroat competitive every year to me and there isn't one entity you can blame for it...nowadays schools, parents, classmates, etc. all have an equal role, imo. You can never underestimate the influence of peers, though. Especially from 14-21. Hell I'm in my late 20s and still let the influence of others affect me at times and I don't even realize it.

It is fair to ask the question as to why it is so prominate here. I doubt it has anything to do with no guns on campus as many of those places don't have guns on campus either.
There are obvious differences between the cultures and social attitudes of the majority of European countries and the United States that I believe answer the question. I don't know the proper solution anymore than anyone else here but I do not think it is false to claim that this type of violence and American culture today share some a link.
 
Last edited:
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

When would be a better time?

I'm with Maggie on this one; we never see you complain when a Libbo posts something like this. Why is that?

We never see you complain when a "Repub" posts something like this. Why is that?
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

We raise a nation of sheep, complete cowards, who when the wolf comes, instead of fighting shows them thier necks in submission. Then when wolves do what wolves do, what do we do? We find ways to keep sheep from figuring out how to defend themselves....

This shooter apparently said "line up, I am going to kill you all"....shot these people then left, reloaded and came back, this all took place over 5 minutes. once again, we see people lining up for the slaughter and it makes me sick. I feel for these kids I do. But did any of them say "holy ****! that dood just shot 1,2,3,4...." then decide to fight?

OVER 5 MINUTES! how many people would you see shot in a classroom before you did whatever you could to save your life and those around you... We are breeding the fight and self preservation out of our society, and the bodycount will only go up.....


(this post won't go over well, Just watch).

Reverend, I've seen you make posts like this before. You didn't know what you were talking about then and you don't now. This has nothing to do with creating a nation of cowards. It has to do with the psychology of how people react in situations of terror. Firstly, the time element is irrelevant. I myself, many years ago, did a study, that demonstrated that in situations of high stress, an individual cannot accurately gauge how long time is passing. Secondly, in situations of significant terror, like this one, people will react in one of three ways: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. The situation is irrelevant to this reaction. It is hardwired into the individual. Can it be altered? Somewhat, but not completely. In this situation, when you combine the terror of the situation, the inability to gauge time, and the likelihood, based on the response, that these folks "froze" because that's how they react, there was NOTHING cowardly about what occurred. It was a tragedy. Please stop blaming the victim.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Reverend, I've seen you make posts like this before. You didn't know what you were talking about then and you don't now. This has nothing to do with creating a nation of cowards. It has to do with the psychology of how people react in situations of terror. Firstly, the time element is irrelevant. I myself, many years ago, did a study, that demonstrated that in situations of high stress, an individual cannot accurately gauge how long time is passing. Secondly, in situations of significant terror, like this one, people will react in one of three ways: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. The situation is irrelevant to this reaction. It is hardwired into the individual. Can it be altered? Somewhat, but not completely. In this situation, when you combine the terror of the situation, the inability to gauge time, and the likelihood, based on the response, that these folks "froze" because that's how they react, there was NOTHING cowardly about what occurred. It was a tragedy. Please stop blaming the victim.



"freeze" is simply a manifestation of "flight".... that said, let me ask you a question. How long does the adrenal response that is fight or flight last?


Much of what you say is correct regarding time passing, etc, however, it's irrelevant to my point. What you are incorrect about is it being only slightly alterable. I've made a life of "altering" this for people....


One last thing... We see examples of "Flight", and "freeze", where was the "fight"? You said "one of three ways", I only saw two.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

There are obvious differences between the cultures and social attitudes of the majority of European countries and the United States that I believe answer the question. I don't know the proper solution anymore than anyone else here but I do not think it is false to claim that this type of violence and American culture today share some a link.

I don't either. I has to be part of the discussion.

I will also say this, we do have students from this country who are under a lot of pressure to succeed. More are looking for the easy "C," to be sure. But those under pressure sometimes thrive, and sometimes crack. What I would like to see is the desire to learn and accomplish, but with the wisdom and self confidence to know that failure helps us grow. It is how we handle failure that defines us. Fearing it seems wrong headed. We should embrace it without surrendering to it.
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Hell Hound-
you have my attention, again I ask you just what have you done in the way of combat and apparently some sort of training for it.

I would put freeze as a separate survival instinct. Many animals, prey and predator use freeze. Soldiers on patrol use freeze.

The 'nation of cowards' stuff sounds like a late night rant at the VFW bar. The nation simply is as it always has been, a nation of non warriors, and even warriors have their moment of doubt and pain.

I'm sure if you had been there the perp never stood a chance, if I had been there I doubt I'd have done much but died a little closer to the guy than the others. but to think a mixed bag of medical students would have instantly produced a lion is the stuff silly teen action movies are made of.

I know yo at least think you are Action Jackson but tuck it back in. Roger that?
 
Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

Hell Hound-
you have my attention, again I ask you just what have you done in the way of combat and apparently some sort of training for it.

1C4x1, I no longer get specific given incidents that have happened online regarding such. Feel free to ask around if you have your doubts about me.

I would put freeze as a separate survival instinct. Many animals, prey and predator use freeze. Soldiers on patrol use freeze.

The 'nation of cowards' stuff sounds like a late night rant at the VFW bar. The nation simply is as it always has been, a nation of non warriors, and even warriors have their moment of doubt and pain.

I'm sure if you had been there the perp never stood a chance, if I had been there I doubt I'd have done much but died a little closer to the guy than the others. but to think a mixed bag of medical students would have instantly produced a lion is the stuff silly teen action movies are made of.

I know yo at least think you are Action Jackson but tuck it back in. Roger that?


Nah, these days the Good Reverend is a F.ormer A.ction G.uy, I just try and teach so that those "moments of doubt and pain" are minimized. as far as my chances? Maybe I end up dead, maybe not. The Good Reverend though, won't die on his knees. :pimpdaddy:



Oh btw, regarding your scenario to ockham, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight. :prof
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom