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Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

So freedom of speech means a person can talk about ANYTHING they want EXCEPT religion, which is criminal and you go to jail for?

You are confident that is what the "Founding Fathers" meant in freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Talk about religion except on your own property and you go to prison - otherwise say whatever you want.

Of course that isn't what they meant, and only a fool would believe they did.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Seeing as how I am not intolerate of peoples faiths it wouldnt bother me. I know this because I ahve been downtown and approached about various religions and political causes and I don't get offended by it.

Also you do know that people who preach the Koran dont have to be radicals right?

Good point, if the preacher had been preaching Islam, I wonder would the police have arrested him?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

The legal precedent for what this man did has been set. Many groups and individuals have protested on public property in California and been allowed to stay. This man did not corner anyone, he didn't block traffic, he didn't impede on anyone's ability to get their driver's license, and he was more than enough distance away from the DMV. The DMV is a state run entity. He was on state property. If he wanted to, he could have popped a tent right there on the grounds as long as he didn't interfere with normal business being conducted. This is a matter of a particular cop who didn't like what was happening so he decided to stop it. IMO, the cop should be disciplined (not fired or anything, just a warning) and the man should be absolved.

"Every person may freely speak, write and publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of this right. A law may not restrain or abridge liberty of speech or press."
—Article I, Section 2 of the California Constitution


Date: 1971
Location: Los Angeles, CAlif.

At issue: After Paul Robert Cohen walked through a courthouse with "F*** the Draft" emblazoned on his jacket, the Superior Court of Los Angeles County convicted him of disturbing the peace. Cohen charged the court with violating his First Amendment rights.

Result: The U.S. Supreme Court overturned Cohen’s conviction, rejecting the notion that a voice may be muzzled to protect a "captive audience." "We cannot indulge in the facile assumption that one can forbid particular words without a substantial risk of suppressing ideas in the process," wrote the Court. "Surely the state has no right to cleanse public debate to the point where it is grammatically palatable to the most squeamish among us."


Date: 1996
Location: San Diego, Calif.

At Issue: When Republican National Convention organizers insisted that protestors be relegated to a distant site across a set of trolley tracks that was partially obscured by a vacant building, the ACLU of San Diego and the National Organization for Women argued that the real intent was to stifle the protestors' message and impact.

Result: In one of the nation's first "free speech zone" cases, the district court ruled that protestors must be able to be seen and heard, rejecting the convention managers' claims that they were primarily interested in establishing a drop-off area for disabled delegates.

Location | ACLU of Northern California
 
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Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

no, he was preaching.

how would YOU feel if some Muslim-radical came to you while you were waiting on line for the DMV and starting preaching the Koran?
I wouldn't want them arrested.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Because the same rules that prevent him from doing what he did would also prevent him from going on about a cause to save the whales. It isn't the content of what he was saying that he was arrested for. It was his disruptive behavior towards a group of people who had no practical means to avoid what he was saying, in a non-public forum. If he had gone over to the street corner and spoke from there, he would have been fine. If he had been talking about Scientology, environmental crusades, how much he loves American Idol, or pretty much anything that wasn't suggesting a commercial transaction, he would still have been arrested. If he had been doing this outside of a mall, where people didn't have to stop and listen to him, he would have been fine.

That's how the law works in this instance. His choice of subject matter was not relevant to his arrest.

Prove that reading a book is "disruptive behavior". Your point that the people there "had no practical means to avoid what he was saying" has nothing to do with anything. What law are you going to use on that one?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

the folks were not assembled on the government property as his audience
they were there for other purposes
which causes them to have been a captive audience

the fellow was reading. had he been reading to himself, nothing would have been said
it was when he began reading aloud that the proselytizing began

So no one can read aloud on govt property now? Show me the law.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Yea. So if your for this then i guess your for the OWS protests right? Both didnt have the right to get arrested? Is that what you are saying?

OWS people were not arrested for speaking. There have been muggings, robberies, rapes, public defecation, etc. That's why people got arrested, not for speaking or reading a book.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

no, he was preaching.

how would YOU feel if some Muslim-radical came to you while you were waiting on line for the DMV and starting preaching the Koran?

He was reading. It's your OPINION he was preaching.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

The legal precedent for what this man did has been set. Many groups and individuals have protested on public property in California and been allowed to stay. This man did not corner anyone, he didn't block traffic, he didn't impede on anyone's ability to get their driver's license, and he was more than enough distance away from the DMV. The DMV is a state run entity. He was on state property. If he wanted to, he could have popped a tent right there on the grounds as long as he didn't interfere with normal business being conducted. This is a matter of a particular cop who didn't like what was happening so he decided to stop it. IMO, the cop should be disciplined (not fired or anything, just a warning) and the man should be absolved.

"Every person may freely speak, write and publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of this right. A law may not restrain or abridge liberty of speech or press."
—Article I, Section 2 of the California Constitution


Date: 1971
Location: Los Angeles, CAlif.

At issue: After Paul Robert Cohen walked through a courthouse with "F*** the Draft" emblazoned on his jacket, the Superior Court of Los Angeles County convicted him of disturbing the peace. Cohen charged the court with violating his First Amendment rights.

Result: The U.S. Supreme Court overturned Cohen’s conviction, rejecting the notion that a voice may be muzzled to protect a "captive audience." "We cannot indulge in the facile assumption that one can forbid particular words without a substantial risk of suppressing ideas in the process," wrote the Court. "Surely the state has no right to cleanse public debate to the point where it is grammatically palatable to the most squeamish among us."


Date: 1996
Location: San Diego, Calif.

At Issue: When Republican National Convention organizers insisted that protestors be relegated to a distant site across a set of trolley tracks that was partially obscured by a vacant building, the ACLU of San Diego and the National Organization for Women argued that the real intent was to stifle the protestors' message and impact.

Result: In one of the nation's first "free speech zone" cases, the district court ruled that protestors must be able to be seen and heard, rejecting the convention managers' claims that they were primarily interested in establishing a drop-off area for disabled delegates.

Location | ACLU of Northern California

You are required to have a permit to do anything there and he did not. That is why he was arrested. It had nothing to do with stopping what he was saying or restricting what he was saying.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

You are required to have a permit to do anything there and he did not. That is why he was arrested. It had nothing to do with stopping what he was saying or restricting what he was saying.

They took his free speech right away.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

You are required to have a permit to do anything there and he did not. That is why he was arrested. It had nothing to do with stopping what he was saying or restricting what he was saying.

You don't need a permit to read aloud from a book on govt property. It happens every day. Bogus.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

#1. the thread title is dishonest. he wasn't arrested for reading the Bible. He was arrested for preaching the Bible to a captive audience on govt. property.

#2. such activity can be viewed as a demonstration or protest. you need a permit for such thing.

They weren't captive and he didn't need a permit. A permit is not required for free speech and everyone knows it. A there is no such thing as the "free speech permit." A permit is required for gatherings of groups of people as a matter of assuring public safety issues don't arise or are addressed.

He didn't have single-person protest permit??? You're getting to be quite LOL!!!
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Good point, if the preacher had been preaching Islam, I wonder would the police have arrested him?

Huh . . . . that'd be a no. :2razz:
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

They took his free speech right away.

LOL!!!!! Not only did he not have his "protestor permit," he also didn't have his "being on the sidewalk permit."

It is always interesting to see people who see themselves as "liberal" (I don't see them as liberal) becoming absolutely anti-individual civil and human rights in total control-freak ways towards people or ideas they don't like - while if 5,000 rush into the Wisconsin state capital screaming in representative faces they howl police brutality if a video shows that they were told to step back.

I don't remember those protestors have "demonstration permits" and "being in the capital permits."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

It is not a breach of the establishment clause so long as the government gives people of all faiths the same courtesy.

So there were other people who wanted to read the bible at the DMV?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

so long as they are not violating law.

which btw crapping on police cars and littering are not forms of free speech.

So was this man violating the law? Because he was on private property....
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

They took his free speech right away.

Because he did not have a permit. They said if he goes back with a permit, he can continue reading from the Bible.

You don't need a permit to read aloud from a book on govt property. It happens every day. Bogus.

You may not like that you need a permit, but according to the police department you do need one.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

no, he was preaching.

how would YOU feel if some Muslim-radical came to you while you were waiting on line for the DMV and starting preaching the Koran?

I wouldn't like it. According to you complaining to one of the officers would be the wrong thing to do. To you, the right thing to do would be to slug him in the face and then beat his head into the concrete because he was stalking and intimidating me - he having started the whole thing as it his fault, plus I could have seen him as dangerous and he should have know I might become violent for which he knowingly put himself in harms way. All of it his fault.

The only reason I can figure you picked a Muslim reading the Quran rather than a Christian reading the Bible is because you hate Muslims and figure everyone here does too?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Because he did not have a permit. They said if he goes back with a permit, he can continue reading from the Bible.



You may not like that you need a permit, but according to the police department you do need one.

Really? Link please.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Of course, he did this to get arrested and to bring publicity to the "War on Christianity." They should have let him preach until his desperation for attention brought him to do something else against the law.

It's a little heavy handed police action, but if it was private property, the owners do not have to allow him to preach there. I don't know how it is in California, but things like the DMV are often located in strip malls among the retail establishments, and the State pays rent to the owner. Owner says no, you have no right to preach there. Conservatives should understand that since it's about property rights.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Liberal hypocrisy example #2,356.

If this were two guys making out, an OWS protestor, or a PETA demonstrator, they'd be exericising free speech.

But a guy read a Bible. Hang him.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

He was with two other people from his Church.

So the DMV called the cops about this guy who, ITO, was "holding church" in the parking lot? The cops arrest him because he didn't have a permit to hold church in the parking lot, yes? All this "church holding" was based on him reading the bible and 2 of his parishioners being there, right? Was the guy waylaying any body to attend this "so called chruch"?

I don't know about anyone else, but this has got to be the dumbest thing I've heard this week.
 
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