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Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

The freedom to express one's religion is routinely infringed, your rights can not trump another's, wrapping obnoxious behavior up in religion still doesn't work.

Parking lots are funny places, like sidewalks they have public assess but are the responsibility of the property owner. A lot depends on the local ordinances. Not some big bad nanny state but local folks, business owners much worshiped in 'conservative' circles as the Job Creators who don't like, want or need disturbances. Don't blame liberals or Obama for the disturbing the peace ordinances, it is quite conservative business men who routinely support such laws.

Then again many 'conservatives' were quite insistent a Muslim Cultural Center shouldn't be located so close to Ground Zero. It might be more a case of which religion or maybe more on target, a good rock to throw when railing against big brother, the nanny state, socialists destroying Gawd, and the tripe that gets flung at such times...

"Obnoxious behavior" isn't a legal term. Over 70% of the citizens of NYC don't want the "cultural center" built on that location. Try again.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

so, you can preach the Gospel to folks stuck on a long line infront of the DMV, but you CAN'T build a Muslim cultural center & mosque 2.5 blocks away from Ground Zero?

the hypocrisy is adorable.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

so, you can preach the Gospel to folks stuck on a long line infront of the DMV, but you CAN'T build a Muslim cultural center & mosque 2.5 blocks away from Ground Zero?

the hypocrisy is adorable.

No one was "stuck". They didn't become invalids when they got in line.

What did the framers of the Constitution mean when they wrote...."or prohibit the free exercise thereof".
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

No one was "stuck". They didn't become invalids when they got in line.

What did the framers of the Constitution mean when they wrote...."or prohibit the free exercise thereof".

it means Muslims can build a mosque & cultural center 2.5 blocks away from GZ, as long as it doesn't impede upon the rights of others.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

You keep changing your story.
I havent changed it once. If you go back and read you would find that out. Either that or you are just incredibly ignorant....

You sound confused today.
I sound fine...

I have no idea what your original position is and I suspect you don't either.
I have a perfect position. I have stated it several times....

You have yet to answer my original question.. Nor has anyone on here...
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

so, you can preach the Gospel to folks stuck on a long line infront of the DMV, but you CAN'T build a Muslim cultural center & mosque 2.5 blocks away from Ground Zero?

the hypocrisy is adorable.

So where do you think the line should be drawn? Is it the fact that he was reading from a book, or is it a problem because the book was the bible? Would it be ok if he had memorized the passage and was reciting it from memory, thus not reading from any book, which is apparently not reading at all but "preaching"? If he had been reading from charolettes web would it be ok? you have to show a distinction here between allowable and not. Or are you saying that no one should ever be allowed to read anything in public. You dont like reading, is that it? Should we burn all the book?
 
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Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

No that's not necessarily true. If this was in a strip mall or shared location with specific plots, the parking lot may be in the ownership of the actual land owner who sub-divided the area, or it may be part of the public domain.

Then if it's rented, the DMV doesn't own it.

Right, and actually if it is DMV property I'd agree with you because that's the government.

Rented space in a strip mall would be the private property of the owner, not public property.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

So where do you think the line should be drawn? Is it the fact that he was reading from a book, or is it a problem because the book was the bible? Would it be ok if he had memorized the passage and was reciting it from memory, thus not reading from any book, which is apparently not reading at all but "preaching"? If he had been reading from charolettes web would it be ok? you have to show a distinction here between allowable and not. Or are you saying that no one should ever be allowed to read anything in public. You dont like reading, is that it? Should we burn all the book?

Where was he though when he read it. What's allowable on private property falls under the jurisdiction of the owner. If in this case that owner is not the State of California, whoever that land owner is can decide which books are and are not acceptable on their property.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

No one was "stuck". They didn't become invalids when they got in line.

What did the framers of the Constitution mean when they wrote...."or prohibit the free exercise thereof".

You're focusing on the wrong part. The government can't elevate one religion above another, which is what it would be doing if it allowed people to use the DMV for attempting to convert others.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

if he was in the parking lot, that's one thing.

if he was on the sidewalk infront of the DMV, that's different.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

"Obnoxious behavior" isn't a legal term. Over 70% of the citizens of NYC don't want the "cultural center" built on that location. Try again.

No, but private property of a business is private property. They can ban preaching on their property if they want to.

It all comes down to who owns that property. If the State owns it, then it's a First Amendment case. If the State rents it from an owner, that owner can say "No Preaching."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Right, and actually if it is DMV property I'd agree with you because that's the government.

Rented space in a strip mall would be the private property of the owner, not public property.

Free speech still applies to private property. If he was asked to leave and refused he could be arrested for tresspassing but NOT for reading from the bible. Even a parking lot which may be privatly owned is still public domain unless posted otherwise.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Where was he though when he read it. What's allowable on private property falls under the jurisdiction of the owner. If in this case that owner is not the State of California, whoever that land owner is can decide which books are and are not acceptable on their property.

No he cannot.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

"Obnoxious behavior" isn't a legal term. Over 70% of the citizens of NYC don't want the "cultural center" built on that location. Try again.

luckily for our Republic, the Constitution trumps the views expressed in a Fox News poll.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

You're focusing on the wrong part. The government can't elevate one religion above another, which is what it would be doing if it allowed people to use the DMV for attempting to convert others.

Allowing a citizen to read from a book of ANY religion is not elevating or endorsing that religion. Remember those disclaimers that come on before a paid program? The products or views does not necessarily represent the views and oppinions of this station. Same thing.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

That doesn't have anything to do with this......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Well, I was taught that ......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."[/QUOTE] ..... means Congress can't establish a US religion, a la, the Church of America . . . and that Congress can't prohibt anyone from practicing there chosen religion.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Well, I was taught that ......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." ..... means Congress can't establish a US religion, a la, the Church of America . . . and that Congress can't prohibt anyone from practicing there chosen religion....

do you know what an establishment of religion is?

its any church, synagoge, mosque, or any religious institution whatsoever.

that means that govt. cannot pass any law that specifically shows any preferences for a religious institution, house of worship, or even a religion.
 
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Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

do you know what an establishment of religion is?

its any church, synagoge, mosque, or any religious institution whatsoever.

that means that govt. cannot pass any law that specifically shows any preferences for a religious institution, house of worship, or even a religion.



Free First Amendment and Constitution Day Education Materials

"Did you know that you have two Freedoms granted by the First Amendment regarding Religion?

"Pilgrims were called Separatists back in England because they wanted independence from the established Church of England. In 1620, they sailed the stormy Atlantic for 63 days on the tiny Mayflower, seeking freedom of religion in the New World.

The First Amendment contains two clauses about the Freedom of Religion. The first part is known as the Establishment Clause, and the second as the Free Exercise Clause.

The Establishment Clause prohibits the government from passing laws that will establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. The courts have interpreted the establishment clause to accomplish the separation of church and state.

The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the government from interfering with a person’s practice of his or her religion. However, religious actions and rituals can be limited by civil and federal laws.

Religious freedom is an absolute right, and includes the right to practice any religion of one’s choice, or no religion at all, and to do this without government control."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

This is a question. It is not an opinion.

As you all no doubt realize, one of my favorite short stories is Down the Digestive Tract and into the Cosmos with Mantra, Tantra and Specklebang ... which for those of you whose education is insufficiently rounded is about either an alien who takes acid and hallucinates that he is a human hallucinating that he is an alien or maybe about a human who is hallucinating that he is an alien who is hallucinating that he is a human. Not everybody likes this story what with language and drug use and all.

Suppose I walked up to a group at the DMV and began loudly reading this story to my captive audience. When I was asked to stop, I didn't. Do you think that I would be detained or would it be OK because this isn't a religious based story?

I did watch the video associated with this event. However, I'm aware the FOX has a bit of an axe to grind on this topic. So, I solicit the knowledge and wisdom of DP.

Now, my OPINION. I think this guy was being incredibly annoying and if I had been in line, trying to peacefully ponder the meaning of the universe, I would have been thrilled when the made him STFU.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

that means that govt. cannot pass any law that specifically shows any preferences for a religious institution, house of worship, or even a religion.

They havent done that. This is about the freedom of speech, no one is talking about a NEW law, this one is rather old. Allowing people to practice their rights, like freedom of speech AND freedom of religion AND freedom to gather, does not mean the government has now sponsored that group.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

do you know what an establishment of religion is?

its any church, synagoge, mosque, or any religious institution whatsoever.

that means that govt. cannot pass any law that specifically shows any preferences for a religious institution, house of worship, or even a religion.

And in this case it is not what happened.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

That's not always true though, sometimes you do have to have permits, etc.

I'm not saying this is that situation, but it's not always cut and dry just because it is public property.

There are sometimes rules and procedures that you have to go by and I'm not sure if that applies here or not.

Very true. I think the instances you speak of are large groups though. That I understand needing a permit for because it can shut down streets and people need the info so they can plan around it.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

I've read that this is not the first time this has happened with these individuals. Police apparently have warned these guys multiple times, which leads me to believe those who have said this guy wanted to get arrested are probably correct. To me, the arrest sounds like a protest in and of itself to bring to light the issue of reading the bible publicly. Regardless of the motivation and intent, the issue at hand is, did the police have a right to arrest the guy? I agree with soccerboy that if the parking lot is technically owned by the DMV, they can have him arrested for trespass - it's their land. A harder argument is if the DMV parking lot is owned by someone else or is considered public land. Even harder still would be to press the illegal protest charge, which I think wouldn't work which maybe why the charges were changed to trespassing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DMV isn't a private enterprise. In other words, the state paid for the land the DMV is on. The state isn't a money making enterprise either. They take money in from tax payers. This individual is a tax payer therefore the land he is on is public land ie tax payer bought. I don't know where this "DMV owned" crap is coming from. The DMV can't own anything.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

This is a question. It is not an opinion.

As you all no doubt realize, one of my favorite short stories is Down the Digestive Tract and into the Cosmos with Mantra, Tantra and Specklebang ... which for those of you whose education is insufficiently rounded is about either an alien who takes acid and hallucinates that he is a human hallucinating that he is an alien or maybe about a human who is hallucinating that he is an alien who is hallucinating that he is a human. Not everybody likes this story what with language and drug use and all.

Suppose I walked up to a group at the DMV and began loudly reading this story to my captive audience. When I was asked to stop, I didn't. Do you think that I would be detained or would it be OK because this isn't a religious based story?

I did watch the video associated with this event. However, I'm aware the FOX has a bit of an axe to grind on this topic. So, I solicit the knowledge and wisdom of DP.

Now, my OPINION. I think this guy was being incredibly annoying and if I had been in line, trying to peacefully ponder the meaning of the universe, I would have been thrilled when the made him STFU.

Read all you want. You can read till pigs fly or the cows come home. I don't care and would be just as offended at you getting arrested as this preacher.

See, I know how to tune people that I don't want to listen to out. Drives my wife crazy.
 
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