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Trayvon Martin school suspension linked to pot(edited)

Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Oh? What violent facts about Zimmerman are there - please link to them....

he beat a cop, beat his ex-girlfriend, and had a restraining order placed on him.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

he beat a cop, beat his ex-girlfriend, and had a restraining order placed on him.


None of which proves that in THIS CASE, Zimmerman was the aggressor. And no, following someone that is suspicious looking or acting is not aggressive.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Trayvon Martin: Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman broke Neighborhood Watch gun rules - chicagotribune.com
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Its not absurd at all. I was responding to someone claiming if Zimmerman had done nothing, it a truism that nothing would have happened. The unknown is known. He can fatasize of utopia alternatives so then I can fantasize of dystopian alternatives.

But you can "if, if, if" your way to infinity. IF a child grows up, and IF he makes some bad choices, and IF he falls under the questionable teaching of some guys idea of the Koran, then MAYBE he becomes the next Osama bin Laden.

That doesn't mean you give his mother a medal for having an abortion instead.

IF Trayvon Martin was a criminal and IF he was up to no good, then MAYBE Zimmerman was right to think that he was suspicious. He was still wrong to go after him. It is possible to murder a criminal.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

None of which proves that in THIS CASE, Zimmerman was the aggressor. And no, following someone that is suspicious looking or acting is not aggressive.

Ah, so the character assassination of Treyvon is okay? The moment someone brings up bad **** about Zimmerman's past, all bets are off.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Trayvon Martin: Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman broke Neighborhood Watch gun rules - chicagotribune.com

Noone said Zimmerman was smart, however, those rules are not LEGALLY binding.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

None of which proves that in THIS CASE, Zimmerman was the aggressor. And no, following someone that is suspicious looking or acting is not aggressive.

sure it is.

if yuo follow someone in a car and then on foot, that person can justificably fear for his safety..and defend himself with violence, if you approach him.

if you follow me in your car and on foot in Florida, and then approach me, I have the legal right to deck you. In Florida..that is.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Ah, so the character assassination of Treyvon is okay? The moment someone brings up bad **** about Zimmerman's past, all bets are off.

Seriously, show me where I have done that or condoned ANY character assasination of either Zimmerman or Trayvon.

So you're of the mindset if someone does something wrong, it's ok for you to?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Seriously, show me where I have done that or condoned ANY character assasination of either Zimmerman or Trayvon.

So you're of the mindset if someone does something wrong, it's ok for you to?

I haven't seen you condone it, nor have I seen you go against it. And no, I'm not. My response was for the Zimmerman apologists who, for whatever reason, have been attacking a dead kid's past because they don't want to admit that Zimmerman did something wrong here and should face the consequences of his actions.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

if you follow me in your car and on foot in Florida, and then approach me, I have the legal right to deck you. In Florida..that is.

ahh , but there you have it. You don't have the proof as fact that Trayvon didn't approach Zimmerman and assualt him, like Zimmerman claimed.

If you approach someone, they also have the right to defend themselves.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

I haven't seen you condone it, nor have I seen you go against it. And no, I'm not. My response was for the Zimmerman apologists who, for whatever reason, have been attacking a dead kid's past because they don't want to admit that Zimmerman did something wrong here and should face the consequences of his actions.

You quoted my post and then said that, so obviously I took it as you are speaking to me.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Trayvon had no juvenile record. Yes, he had a school suspension.

George had some incidences with the law on domestic violence and a squirmish with a law officer in which he was charged.

None of this really is relevant to this case.

The facts we have are ....

George continued to pursue an unarmed skinny kid heading home from a store with nothing but skittles. In fact, George himself reports to the dispatcher he is following the kid ... the kid looks at him and then runs away. George actually describes this in his call and then claims "they always get away". George knew an officer was arriving on the scene.

Cell phone records from the gf back up the time and the gf reports basically the same story George reported ... that Trayvon notices george following and runs away.

Within a few minutes Trayvon has a fatal injury and George is observed STANDING on Trayvon and makes no attmept to call for medical aid.

Questions ... the lawyer reports that George self describes his injuries.

Are there any documentation of such injuries? We know Trayvon had a fatal injury. Where is the medical report of George's injuries?
George weighed almost twice as much and was following an unarmed minor despite breaking the neighborhood watch rules and disobeying the direction of the 911 dispatcher.

Traybon will have a drug and ETOH test from his autopsy.

Did police do a drug and ETOH test on the man who followed and shot Traybon?


The first witness to the scene reported she saw no scuffle (just heard a kid crying) and found George with his foot on top of the kid. She said police spoke to her for a few minutes and in her mind seemed to readily accept George's version. At that point they never contacted her again.

If Trayvon had been of legal age and had a legal concealed weapon ... would he have been supported by the NRA if scared of the big guy following and harassing him he had just shot him and stood on his body?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

ahh , but there you have it. You don't have the proof as fact that Trayvon didn't approach Zimmerman and assualt him, like Zimmerman claimed.

If you approach someone, they also have the right to defend themselves.

its a FACT that Zimmerman followed Martin.

this fact alone, gives Martin the right to Stand His Ground.

however, we do not know if Martin approached Zimmerman. That is only an unsubstantiated claim.

based on this, the only person who clearly has SYG on his side, is Martin.

why? because we KNOW for a FACT, that Zimmerman was following him in his car & on foot.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

The girlfriend's recount of her call with Martin is that it was Martin who confronted Zimmerman. There is zero evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.

Zimmerman said Martin looked suspicious because he was acting oddly in his view and acting like he was on drugs. The claim that Zimmerman believed Martin suspicious for wearing a hoodie is just something media personalities made up.

I would like a society where people looked out for each other and each other's property. Zimmerman kept his gun concealed (also known by the girlfriend's statement about what Martin said on the phone). I have NO problem with adults (qualified, skilled) carrying firearms. None. I have no problem with ANYONE calling police on someone they see as acting suspicious and if that person runs after learning the police are being called watching where that person went with police on the way is correct and desired conduct in my opinion.


Personally, I think all neighborhood crime watch should be armed and trained accordingly.

But that doesn't describe Zimmerman's actions. A person who is qualified to carry firearms doesn't go out looking for trouble. It's not like Zimmerman got out of his car to smoke a cigarette or get some fresh air. He did it with the intent of pursuing Martin.

I'm good with armed neighborhood watch IF those people are properly trained. This case does not describe someone who was properly trained.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

its a FACT that Zimmerman followed Martin.

this fact alone, gives Martin the right to Stand His Ground.

No, it isn't.


however, we do not know if Martin approached Zimmerman. That is only an unsubstantiated claim.

Now, you're finally getting it. We don't know for sure.

And no if I just follow someone that doesn't give them the right to attack me on that alone.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Oh? What violent facts about Zimmerman are there - please link to them.
Sure

Trayvon Martin’s shooter had a domestic violence altercation in 2005 - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

See the OP links :roll:
You can't use pot as a reference point towards violent behavior. The two aren't related.

I'm sorry you're ignorant of the law. There's nothing I can do other than point it out over and over to you. Please educate yourself on Character Witnesses in the U.S. legal system.
How does the possibility of Martin smoking pot relate to this situation? I wonder if him sneaking a swig of beer when he was 15 also related to him being violent?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...


Yep, he has violence in his past given the domestic disturbance. Here's what I didn't see... I didn't see in the article where Zimmerman pulled a gun, knife or weapon. I didn't see Zimmerman beat the hell out of his fiance. That lends to severity - there was a domestic dispute and it sounds like both were violent towards each other.

Anything else? Zimmerman pull a gun on anyone? Police reports of drugs? Bar fights? Arrests?


A domestic certainly shows Zimmerman could become violent - towards women. I was hoping for more.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Yup, attacking the victim with irrelevancies. Keep up the quality work. Here, let me give you a hint: the victim's character is not an issue, his actions that night are. He could be a gang banging, date raping, purse snatching asshole, and if he did nothing wrong on the night he was killed, then the only thing that matters is that he did nothing wrong the night he was killed.

That's not quite true. His past actions can be used to evaluate the likelihood of his actions on the night in question . . . if not in court, then most certainly, in an investigation.

Within a few minutes Trayvon has a fatal injury and George is observed STANDING on Trayvon and makes no attmept to call for medical aid.

Will you PULLLEEZE stop saying Zimmerman was seen standing on Trayvon. That is not true. You think it is? Where's the link?


P.S. I don't ever remember seeing a thread as active as this: 14 Members and 9 Guests. Maybe I just never noticed before....?
 
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Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

I haven't seen you condone it, nor have I seen you go against it. And no, I'm not. My response was for the Zimmerman apologists who, for whatever reason, have been attacking a dead kid's past because they don't want to admit that Zimmerman did something wrong here and should face the consequences of his actions.

What exactly in your mind *in legal terms* is
Zimmerman did something wrong here

Please elaborate
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

its a FACT that Zimmerman followed Martin.

this fact alone, gives Martin the right to Stand His Ground.

however, we do not know if Martin approached Zimmerman. That is only an unsubstantiated claim.

based on this, the only person who clearly has SYG on his side, is Martin.

why? because we KNOW for a FACT, that Zimmerman was following him in his car & on foot.


We do not yet know, but it appears that Zim had stopped following him after being told to by the dispatcher that it wasn't necessary. Basically, it is an unsbstaniated claim that Zim was following Martin at the time Martin allegedly approached.
 
Agreed. But what are they learned from? I disagree with you that political correctness is a process of unlearning those lies. These stereotypical responses are not lies. They are founded in hard, cold fact. Those who are "indoctrinated," as you say, are bigots. There's a difference between being vigilant against stereotypes and bigotry. Big.

If I see three black young men advancing rapidly toward me at night...looking left and right and back as they approach...one with a teardrop tat on his face, one with his hand in his pocket and something sticking out from there...I'm going to be scared ****less. Mine would be a stereotypical response. And it just might keep me alive.

THANK YOU for that.

Being politically correct in real life does get people hurt, particularly women. Not wanting to be offensive or rude, women will hesitate to run, decide NOT proceed to her car in a parking lot but instead towards other people, NOT get ahead of the curve if a date is becoming increasingly pushy and forceful - and a whole list of other ways. Being politically or socially correct, or not wanting to seem afraid, can get a person robbed, assaulted, raped or killed.

But there is ANOTHER stereotype I urge against. That a man has less rights to self defense than a woman does.

I think if Zimmerman was a woman, attitudes would be different. TOO MANY people think if there is a MAN in the house, then no reason to lock the door or that there is no danger as long as a MAN is along. That men just fist fight and the good guy always wins like in the movies if there is an attack - and that assuming the attacker doesn't pull a knife or - as in the case of Martin (in my opinion) - when the assailant or other guy has "won" he doesn't just proceed to stomp on your neck, stick his fingers into the man's eyes permanently blinding him, stomping on his throat, choking him to death, kicking his ribs into his lungs etc, etc.

MEN also have a right to defend against attack or a realistic sense that one is imminent and not have to rely on "I'm a man" thus being disarmed. My childhood and then adult past was very, very tough and it made me tough and a psychologists would say a phobic need to remain so, to never have reason to fear a man. If someone saw me charging down on the angrily and that my motive, they have a gun and shoot fast - because their are few men I couldn't do any amount of damage or injury I wanted to.

What I would to see is people allowed guns in public, but ONLY IF they have gone through REAL training and testing. On law. On weapons. And correct responses. And a bit of psychological inquiry too. WITH THAT I'd like to see quasi citizen cops. Police usually only arrive after assaults, robberies, rapes and murder.

But back to your point, if you're white and see some black guy (doesn't have to be 3) coming towards you and you sense danger for whatever reason, it is foolish to convince yourself that you can't reacte negatively and defensively for fear of seeming like a racist. Or via versa or whatever. Most people who are assaulted (not all) had a sense of danger before it happened - and disregarded it or under reacted to it. Don't. It only takes one time to ruin the rest of your life. There are 6 BILLION people on this planet. It absolutely doesn't matter what someone you don't even know thinks about you. Look out for yourself. Look out for others.
Men, just because you're a guy doesn't mean you aren't in danger. And women, just because you're with your man doesn't mean you have a trained body guard with you.

The quicker you put up your guard and reacte to a sense of danger, the higher likelihood that NO ONE is hurt. Then you never know what didn't happen.

On the other hand, if you MUST pick, pick trying to prove you're innocent rather than you or your family trying to seek justice against whoever made you his victim. No guilty verdict, even no death penalty, not once, ever undid one iota of what the assailant did to the victim.

Sorry for the soap box speechifying.
 
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Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

You can't use pot as a reference point towards violent behavior. The two aren't related.
Sure they're related. Bugulary tools, past history of drugs use both coincide with Zimmermans statements that Martin looked suspicious and may be on drugs. Lends to credibility.

How does the possibility of Martin smoking pot relate to this situation?
It's being suspended 3 times since Feb, having bugulary tools, pot pipe with bag & residue as well as allegedly, taking a swing at a bus driver. As I've already stated, that lends credibility to Zimmermans statements to the police. If Martin has no past history of drugs, suspensions or alleged violence; was an A student honor roll and never got in trouble in his life, that would tend to cast doubt on Zimmerman's statements.

I wonder if him sneaking a swig of beer when he was 15 also related to him being violent?
Certainly it wouldn't... unless he was caught swigging beer at school as was suspended for it 3 times... you see?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

We do not yet know, but it appears that Zim had stopped following him after being told to by the dispatcher that it wasn't necessary.....

no, it appears that Zim lost Martin. But he was still searching for him.
 
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