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Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

ric27 said:
Look like a hood, dress like a hood...

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's probably a freakin' duck.

Cops have called this the Duck rule for a looooonnng time

If one doesn't want to be treated like a gangster, don't portray yourself like one
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and if one doesn't want to be treated like a vigilante cop wannabee-then don't disregard what the 9-1-1 dispatcher tells one to do


This guy Zimmerman oozes wannabee cop splooge. And that is bothersome to me
 
Thunder said:
so because he wore his hood, he deserved to get blown away?
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sure just like a girl in a leather miniskirt deserves to get raped.
 
According to the only eye-witness account, Zimmerman was on the ground, being beaten by Trayvon, yelling "Help" (on the audio), when he pulled the gun and fired one shot.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Nice made up story line you got. So after having called the cops, and knowing that they were going to show up at any minute, Zimmerman decides to assault Trayvon. Or because Zimmerman, while on community watch, has the gaul to ask Trayvon what he is doing in Zimmerman's neighborhood, that rates assault ?

Facts are stubbon things, ain't they ;)
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How about this


Zimmerman did initiate contact, do you agree with that, Zimmerman did get out of his car

If so, how do you think Zimmerman approached Trayvon,

Do you think he politely asked what he was doing in the neighborhood, or demanded that information

How do you think Trayvon would respond, that he went into a violent rage and jumped Zimmerman, or told Zimmerman to f off

If it was the second, how do you think Zimmerman would have responded, would he have meekly let Trayvon walk away or would he have grabbed Trayvon and tried to prevent him from leaving

If it was the second, is not grabbing someone an assualt on that person, would Trayvon not have been justified in defending himself against that assault.

If Zimmerman did grab Trayvon and was losing a fight that he started would he have been justified in shooting Trayvon, or if Trayvon had a gun would he have been justified in shooting Zimmerman becuase of the assualt.

Self defense works both ways, if Zimmerman did grab Trayvon, if Trayvon did have gun would he have been justified in shooting Zimmerman
 
Eighty Deuce said:
According to the only eye-witness account, Zimmerman was on the ground, being beaten by Trayvon, yelling "Help" (on the audio), when he pulled the gun and fired one shot.
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So losing a fight you started is justification to shoo them
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
What would you do if I asked you what you were doing in my neighborghood,

You would and I would as well tell me to f off and walk away. Given my cop wannabe personality I would grab you to stop you from leaving. That is assualt, Trayvon would be justified in beating Zimmermans butt. Of course Zimmerman had a gun and shot Trayvon, preventing Trayvon from being able to say that Zimmerman assaulted him, so now a pycho gets to tell his`` story``.

Facts truely are a stubborn thing
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You are making **** up again. If you have evidence that Zimmerman physically assaulted Travon first, please link it. The current evidence says otherwise.

Zimmerman might be a friggin idiot. But right now all evidence supports that thug wannabee Trayvon physically assaulted cop wannabe Zimmerman. And that Zimmerman acted in legal self defense.

You've posted your unsupported fairy tale twice, btw. Please not again. How about some evidence this time.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
You are making **** up again. If you have evidence that Zimmerman physically assaulted Travon first, please link it. The current evidence says otherwise.

Zimmerman might be a friggin idiot. But right now all evidence supports that thug wannabee Trayvon physically assaulted cop wannabe Zimmerman. And that Zimmerman acted in legal self defense.

You've posted your unsupported fairy tale twice, btw. Please not again. How about some evidence this time.
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What evidence supports the case that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman

that Zimmerman was on the losing end of a physical fight.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
What evidence supports the case that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman

that Zimmerman was on the losing end of a physical fight.
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Here you go:

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

My point to you would be is where is your evidence that supports what I see as pure conjecture from you ?

The only side that I have taken here is presenting the evidence available to us. Current photos. Current evidence as reported by the press. The problem is that the majority of the media has ignored evidence contrary to Trayvon.

Zimmerman may be one giant idiot who was more provocative than is wise. But stupidity is not a crime. Assault is. And is always the case, single mistakes are usually minor. When we link them together, as with Zimmerman getting out of his car for whatever reason, and Trayvon clearly helping to elevate the issue, we have a tragedy.

Present evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon, who then was only defending himself, and you got something.
 
TurtleDude said:
and if one doesn't want to be treated like a vigilante cop wannabee-then don't disregard what the 9-1-1 dispatcher tells one to do

This guy Zimmerman oozes wannabee cop splooge. And that is bothersome to me
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wanna-be cops, with guns, who attack cops, attack women, don't get to become a cop, call 911 obsessively, and follow "perps" and talk to themselves about how "these assholes always get away", and "****ing punks", really trouble me too.

its kinda scary.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Here you go:

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman....
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its interesting how a Fox affiliate, would LIE about their own damn report.

no where in the report, does it say that the witness saw Martin attack Zimmerman.

it only says that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, who started the altercation is NOT mentioned.

but hey, its Fox.
 
Thunder said:
what makes you sooo sure, we are aware of the all the evidence?
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I have never said, or even implied, such. I present it only as what we got so far, and welcome more evidence.

I do ask folks to see if this current info, which others have brought out in other threads as well, is what is also presented by the media as "current".
 
Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting
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How does that changed what I said?

I agree that a struggle took place, it is my opinion that Zimmerman initiated that struggle, not Trayvon. And in my world losing a fight that you start is not justification for shooting someone. If it is, nerd of the world rejoice, start all the fights you want, and shoot the person when you start losing the fight


Eighty Deuce said:
Here you go:

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

My point to you would be is where is your evidence that supports what I see as pure conjecture from you ?

The only side that I have taken here is presenting the evidence available to us. Current photos. Current evidence as reported by the press. The problem is that the majority of the media has ignored evidence contrary to Trayvon.

Zimmerman may be one giant idiot who was more provocative than is wise. But stupidity is not a crime. Assault is. And is always the case, single mistakes are usually minor. When we link them together, as with Zimmerman getting out of his car for whatever reason, and Trayvon clearly helping to elevate the issue, we have a tragedy.

Present evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon, who then was only defending himself, and you got something.
Click to expand...
 
Thunder said:
its interesting how a Fox affiliate, would LIE about their own damn report.

no where in the report, does it say that the witness saw Martin attack Zimmerman.

it only says that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, who started the altercation is NOT mentioned.

but hey, its Fox.
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LOL ....... so it does not count because its "Fox".

Its the evidence we got. OBTW, if you are on the ground, being beaten, you can defend yourself .............. and its legal. Provide evidence that Zimmerman first assaulted Trayvon, and maybe you make a case for manslaughter. But you don't have such evidence. WTF is the problem with honoring the evidence we have until we get more ? If it even exists ? Whaqt you and others have argued is to ignore the current evidence.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
How does that changed what I said?

I agree that a struggle took place, it is my opinion that Zimmerman initiated that struggle, not Trayvon. And in my world losing a fight that you start is not justification for shooting someone. If it is, nerd of the world rejoice, start all the fights you want, and shoot the person when you start losing the fight
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But the Law does not go by conjecture. I am not debating the court of public opinion. I don't give a **** about that.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
LOL ....... so it does not count because its "Fox".

Its the evidence we got. OBTW, if you are on the ground, being beaten, you can defend yourself .............. and its legal. Provide evidence that Zimmerman first assaulted Trayvon, and maybe you make a case for manslaughter. But you don't have such evidence. WTF is the problem with honoring the evidence we have until we get more ? If it even exists ? Whaqt you and others have argued is to ignore the current evidence.
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the headline says that the witness claims that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

the article, says no such thing.

the headline, is a lie.
 
TurtleDude said:
and if one doesn't want to be treated like a vigilante cop wannabee-then don't disregard what the 9-1-1 dispatcher tells one to do
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I got news for ya. We had a couple of dispatchers make screw ups and confirm warrants that were not valid. Agency wound up paying the lotto winners some big money

Call types are wrong, bad about getting important info, etc. or just forget to tell that a domestic suspect was armed with a handgun. Its plain lucky that some of the worst freaking ones haven't cost a cop their life at some point.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
But the Law does not go by conjecture. I am not debating the court of public opinion. I don't give a **** about that.
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Niether am I

The article does not state who started the struggle, just that Zimmerman was on the losing end of it
 
Thunder said:
its interesting how a Fox affiliate, would LIE about their own damn report.

no where in the report, does it say that the witness saw Martin attack Zimmerman.

it only says that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, who started the altercation is NOT mentioned.

but hey, its Fox.
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False. The eyewitness account is that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, hitting him, while Zimmerman cried for help. There is corroboration of this. Further, the eyewitness who reports this was on the phone with the police while it happened, while he reported Martin on top of Zimmerman, and the gunshot. The police arrived one minute later.

Your argument is that maybe Zimmerman took the first swing. Maybe he did. But there is no evidence of such, and frankly, as Zimmerman knew the cops were coming, as he called them, is a logic fail.

I likely will not be wasting any more time replying to you. I got my exercise in, and your arguments are very poor IMMHO.

Cheers.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Niether am I

The article does not state who started the struggle, just that Zimmerman was on the losing end of it
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Last reply. Yes, you did conjecture that Zimmerman was the first to assault. Produce evidence, and it won't be conjecture. But you did not.

Like it or not, if you are on the ground, being assaulted, you can use deadly force in many parts of the country to defend yourself. Even libs.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
False. The eyewitness account is that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, hitting him, while Zimmerman cried for help. There is corroboration of this. Further, the eyewitness who reports this was on the phone with the police while it happened, while he reported Martin on top of Zimmerman, and the gunshot. The police arrived one minute later.

Your argument is that maybe Zimmerman took the first swing. Maybe he did. But there is no evidence of such, and frankly, as Zimmerman knew the cops were coming, as he called them, is a logic fail.

I likely will not be wasting any more time replying to you. I got my exercise in, and your arguments are very poor IMMHO.

Cheers.
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So losing a fight you start is justification for shooting someone

yes or no

If Zimmerman did take the first swing is not what Trayvon did self defense, would Trayvon not have been justified in shooting Zimmerman at that moment in time as self defense
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So losing a fight you start is justification for shooting someone

yes or no

If Zimmerman did take the first swing is not what Trayvon did self defense, would Trayvon not have been justified in shooting Zimmerman at that moment in time as self defense
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Produce evidence.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Last reply. Yes, you did conjecture that Zimmerman was the first to assault. Produce evidence, and it won't be conjecture. But you did not.

Like it or not, if you are on the ground, being assaulted, you can use deadly force in many parts of the country to defend yourself. Even libs.
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Right and which is why I feel that if Trayvon had a gun and shot Zimmerman it would have been in self defense
 
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