• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Excon said:
He wasn't shot because of the way he dressed.
He was shot because he was in the process of attacking Zimmerman.

And just for the record so we can knock off this hoodie bs.
Zimmerman was observing Trayvon before he put his hood on.
Click to expand...

Even if we concede the point that Travyon attacked Zimmerman, killing should be a last resort. Part of my job at my hotel is security, a guy of equal size and weight attacked me two nights ago and I would never, ever have had to shoot him. The police were on their way and he was restrained until they got there.

The facts were Zimmerman should not have confronted Travyon in the first place, Trayvon presented no immediate danger to anyones property or persons.

He was specifically told not to follow Trayvon. And he did.

This whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had not attempted to play Rambo.
 
ric27 said:
Lets try to be truthful....critical, not hypocritical

Would that have happened to you or would this have happened to Martin aka @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA if either of you were wearing a suit and tie?

If you dress and act in a manner that is associated with a certain subculture, then you're going to be assumed to be a member of said subculture and treated accordingly
Click to expand...

So when somebody, who is not a police officer confronts me, and was stalking me I would have no rights to defend myself from said aggressive actions?

Do you really think Zimmerman, who got out of his car and chased Trayvon on foot was just going to walk away when he caught up to Trayvon and say

Excuse me, but can I ask what you are doing, or would he have tried to restrain him, after all he is the neighbor hood watch, and had a gun for self protection.

Barring further evidence, I expect that Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon, which started the fight, which Zimmerman was losing, at which point he shot Trayvon
 
Jetboogieman said:
Even if we concede the point that Travyon attacked Zimmerman, killing should be a last resort.
Click to expand...
Apparently it was.
Zimmerman was calling out for help. No one came. He then used his firearm, and now Trayvon is dead.
Seems to me it was last resort and not because it was the last thing to occur.

Jetboogieman said:
Part of my job at my hotel is security, a guy of equal size and weight attacked me two nights ago and I would never, ever have had to shoot him. The police were on their way and he was restrained until they got there.
Click to expand...
Anecdotal and has nothing to do with this case.

Jetboogieman said:
The facts were Zimmerman should not have confronted Travyon in the first place, Trayvon presented no immediate danger to anyones property or persons.
Click to expand...
Your narrative is not supported by the known facts.
Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first.


Jetboogieman said:
He was specifically told not to follow Trayvon. And he did.
Click to expand...
No he was not. He was given a suggestion that he was not obligated to follow.
And after losing him, he was on his way back to his truck when he was attacked from behind.
That means he was no longer following him at that point, as was suggested.

Jetboogieman said:
This whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had not attempted to play Rambo.
Click to expand...
Hyperbole.
He wasn't playing "Rambo". And the fact that it was him crying for help before using deadly force says he wasn't playing Rambo.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I would never, ever have had to shoot him.
Click to expand...

This point is critical.....

You commenting from the comfort of your computer and Zim was making a decision in a compressed time frame while being pounded by Martin


You can *what if all day long* situations to death and you have to decide long in advance at what point you are willing to use deadly force and stick to that. There are simply too many variables to any situation to have someone authoritatively say *this is the right thing to do*.


I don't want to sound too harsh about this, but the situation will tell you what the right thing to do is, and you will only know what that is when it's happening in real time
 
taxigirl said:
4. What about the issue of violence, is there another way this could have been solve? Why is it OK that this ended in violence
Click to expand...

In general terms NO...

As long as something is illegal and people want it, there will be violence and the destruction of society surrounding it.​
 
Excon said:
He wasn't shot because of the way he dressed.
He was shot because he was in the process of attacking Zimmerman.

And just for the record so we can knock off this hoodie bs.
Zimmerman was observing Trayvon before he put his hood on.
Click to expand...

He was shot while defending himself from Zimmerman.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Even if we concede the point that Travyon attacked Zimmerman, killing should be a last resort. Part of my job at my hotel is security, a guy of equal size and weight attacked me two nights ago and I would never, ever have had to shoot him. The police were on their way and he was restrained until they got there.

The facts were Zimmerman should not have confronted Travyon in the first place, Trayvon presented no immediate danger to anyones property or persons.

He was specifically told not to follow Trayvon. And he did.

This whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had not attempted to play Rambo.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Observe, and Report has nothing to do with detain, and fight, and fire.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Absolutely. Observe, and Report has nothing to do with detain, and fight, and fire.


j-mac
Click to expand...


Does Jet live in England?
 
ric27 said:
Are you 100% sure about this?

Be truthful
Click to expand...

Are you sure he wasn't? I pretty much think this is the case:

"I think it’s pretty clear now – based on the information we do have – that this Zimmerman guy was a self-important hot-headed and completely unprepared and unqualified cop wannabe who was way over-impressed with his own value to the neighborhood as a guardian of their safety. He also seems to carry a prejudice against young black males wearing hoodies … a prejudice that ended in tragedy..."
 
j-mac said:
Absolutely. Observe, and Report has nothing to do with detain, and fight, and fire.


j-mac
Click to expand...

Well, the responsibility for trained civilians is to ALWAYS carry so that they can protect themselves and their families. Police cant be everywhere. They ususally show up just after a crime has been committed.

No fatal shot from Zim and its quite possible, Martin sends Zim to coma or afterlife.
 
ric27 said:
Well, the responsibility for trained civilians is to ALWAYS carry so that they can protect themselves and their families. Police cant be everywhere. They ususally show up just after a crime has been committed.

No fatal shot from Zim and its quite possible, Martin sends Zim to coma or afterlife.
Click to expand...

And if Trayvon was defending himself that would be justified would it not
 
ric27 said:
Lets try to be truthful....critical, not hypocritical

Would that have happened to you or would this have happened to Martin aka @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA if either of you were wearing a suit and tie?

If you dress and act in a manner that is associated with a certain subculture, then you're going to be assumed to be a member of said subculture and treated accordingly
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. You don't have the right to be jury, judge, and executioner.

There is a local Hell's Angel club in my city. If I chased a Hell's Angel on foot down an alley in my pickup and foolishly thought to get out and come after him with a gun and finally shot him dead. Guess what I am going to prison. I could clamor about his colors on his back and all the awful tattoos on his arm but I would be toast.

Really no need to argue this over and over. On April 10th the grand jury is going to make a decision. They will be presented with all the facts and you will just all have to wait and see. If this guy doesn't go to prison I would be shocked. Time will tell.
 
ric27 said:
In general terms NO...

As long as something is illegal and people want it, there will be violence and the destruction of society surrounding it.​
Click to expand...

I do not understand.... I asked if this incident could have ended without violence, are you saying there was something illegal about it or are you saying that there will be violence as long as something (anything) is illegal because they black market of that something will support it?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
And if Trayvon was defending himself that would be justified would it not
Click to expand...
Of course it would.
But why do you chose to engage in supposition when the evidence does not support it?
 
Thunder said:
how often do YOU call 911?
Click to expand...

He called 911 approximate once a week, which is extremely low for someone actively involved in neighborhood crime watch, particularly in a high crime neigbhorhood with over 400 such calls a year. This would not count times police acted without a 911 call.

So now you're claim has been reduced to claiming that Zimmerman is a murder because he called 911 too many times in your opinion?

I have NO doubt if this had happened and Zimmerman had not called 911, you'd be RAGING! "he should have called 911! That he didn't call 911 proves he's a racist murder!"
 
ric27 said:
Well, the responsibility for trained civilians is to ALWAYS carry so that they can protect themselves and their families. Police cant be everywhere. They ususally show up just after a crime has been committed.

No fatal shot from Zim and its quite possible, Martin sends Zim to coma or afterlife.
Click to expand...

Ok, But I am a CWP holder, and in that situation I don't believe I would have killed Martin, but then again, I wouldn't have pursued him after the 911 operator said I didn't have to.

j-mac
 
Excon said:
Of course it would.
But why do you chose to engage in supposition when the evidence does not support it?
Click to expand...

You mean the evidence that show

Zimmerman was following Trayvon

that Zimmerman got out of his car to follow Trayvon

That Zimmerman in following Trayvon got close enough that verbal communication was possible

What is not clear is who initiated physical contact
 
Excon said:
Of course it would.
But why do you chose to engage in supposition when the evidence does not support it?
Click to expand...

With two eye-witnesses stating it was Zimmerman ONLY on the ground and that he was still being assaulted ELIMINATES the wanted-theory of Latino Zimmerman haters that Martin was defending himself. He was not defending himself. He was felony aggravated assaulting Zimmerman - unless those 2 eye-witnesses - at least one of which is African-American - are lying.

Do you think they hate the eye-witnesses as much as they hate Zimmerman?
 
joko104 said:
With two eye-witnesses stating it was Zimmerman ONLY on the ground and that he was still being assaulted ELIMINATES the wanted-theory of Latino Zimmerman haters that Martin was defending himself. He was not defending himself. He was felony aggravated assaulting Zimmerman - unless those 2 eye-witnesses - at least one of which is African-American - are lying.

Do you think they hate the eye-witnesses as much as they hate Zimmerman?
Click to expand...


Why are you trying so hard to make this a racial thing?


j-mac
 
joko104 said:
With two eye-witnesses stating it was Zimmerman ONLY on the ground and that he was still being assaulted ELIMINATES the wanted-theory of Latino Zimmerman haters that Martin was defending himself. He was not defending himself. He was felony aggravated assaulting Zimmerman - unless those 2 eye-witnesses - at least one of which is African-American - are lying.

Do you think they hate the eye-witnesses as much as they hate Zimmerman?
Click to expand...
Joko104

I joined this forum because I was upset that no one was listening to the factual evidence that you were providing.
A lot of the members are now aware of it through your efforts.
And I would be liking alot more of your posts but for one thing, IMHO you are making this even more racial than the other side.
More so than it already is.
If you want to have a discussion of the evident bias that is seen by many, shouldn't you start a topic for that and just stick with the basic evidence and not engage in hyperbole?
Just asking.
 
Last edited:
j-mac said:
Ok, But I am a CWP holder, and in that situation I don't believe I would have killed Martin, but then again, I wouldn't have pursued him after the 911 operator said I didn't have to.

j-mac
Click to expand...

Your common sense guides, you....but specifically on the assault issue, Martin hitting Zim on the ground *repeatedly*

Zim presumes Martin wants to kill him *WHO WOULDN'T*. Zim did not have the luxury of time to inquire further or to assume otherwise
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom