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Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

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buck

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Milwuakee teachers unions - putting the recall efforts above what's beneficial to the students and the school:

Gov. Scott Walker said Wednesday that unions were trying to sabotage his efforts at government reform because leaders of four unions urged the Milwaukee teachers union not to support possible legislation to allow financial concessions just before the June recall.
Leaders of the Madison Teachers Inc. union were among those who wrote a letter dated Tuesday saying that the legislation would harm union members and the effort to recall Walker.
"Allowing Governor Walker to make such a claim just before the recall election will prove detrimental to recalling him and, therefore, will only enhance his ability to further harm all Wisconsin public employees," said the letter, signed by MTI executive director John Matthews and president Peggy Coyne, among others.
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Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms
 
MaggieD said:
Honestly? They aren't trying to sabotage government reforms. They're trying to sabotage Walker.
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Sabotaging the schools in their attempt to sabotage Walker.
 
buck said:
Sabotaging the schools in their attempt to sabotage Walker.
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I'm unclear here, is sabotage the proper word? Would oppose be more accurate? If not, what acts specifically equal sabotage?
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm unclear here, is sabotage the proper word? Would oppose be more accurate? If not, what acts specifically equal sabotage?
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The union heads are telling the local union to intentionally hurt the schools so they will have to layoff teachers in order to get back at Walker and make the recall efforts more likely to succeed. I view that as sabotaging the schools and reforms in order to hurt Walker. If you want to call that action something different and your only argument is semantics, so be it.
 
It's propaganda. The most common form of propaganda with teachers' unions is to say that whatever action they do that isn't what the government wants is done to "hurt the students" or "hurt the schools". It's a good way to turn the gullible members of the public against such unions while not having to actually address whatever arguments the unions bring up in any intellectually substantial way.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's propaganda. The most common form of propaganda with teachers' unions is to say that whatever action they do that isn't what the government wants is done to "hurt the students" or "hurt the schools". It's a good way to turn the gullible members of the public against such unions while not having to actually address whatever arguments the unions bring up in any intellectually substantial way.
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You've gotta laugh, right? Republicans crying, "think of the CHILDREN!!" while Republican governors and legislators across the country and slashing school spending to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations.
 
buck said:
The union heads are telling the local union to intentionally hurt the schools so they will have to layoff teachers in order to get back at Walker and make the recall efforts more likely to succeed. I view that as sabotaging the schools and reforms in order to hurt Walker. If you want to call that action something different and your only argument is semantics, so be it.
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First, that's the kind of accusation that really needs hard proof. Second, hurt how?

But, no, words have meaning. IF they are doing what you claim, sabotage would be the right the word. Otherwise, just opposing him would not be sabotage. But your link only makes mention of one actual letter:

Leaders of the Madison Teachers Inc. union were among those who wrote a letter dated Tuesday saying that the legislation would harm union members and the effort to recall Walker.

"Allowing Governor Walker to make such a claim just before the recall election will prove detrimental to recalling him and, therefore, will only enhance his ability to further harm all Wisconsin public employees," said the letter, signed by MTI executive director John Matthews and president Peggy Coyne, among others.

Read more: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms


Wouldn't it be prudent to expect Walker to present evidence, or is it enough that he make a claim?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's propaganda. The most common form of propaganda with teachers' unions is to say that whatever action they do that isn't what the government wants is done to "hurt the students" or "hurt the schools". It's a good way to turn the gullible members of the public against such unions while not having to actually address whatever arguments the unions bring up in any intellectually substantial way.
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The union's argument is that they don't like what Walker did and feel they need to act out by not agreeing to contribute to their pensions or healthcare. Teachers will probably be fired, but at least they get to make their point and make the recall a bit more likely.

The good news is that once the teacher's current contract expires, they will have to make the contributions and the teachers can be rehired. There is hardly any chance the legislation will be overturned before then - despite Falk's agreement with the unions.
 
You've got to give credit to Walker: I've never seen bigger balls on a squirrel. He cut over a billion dollars from schools and local governments to pay for over a billion dollars in tax cuts that primarily benefit the rich and corporations, and he's going to cry foul over the teachers' union's action? :lol:
 
the Republican governor in my state is "sabotaging" schools by cutting funding by over $300 million dollars.

plenty of dough still available for professional sports team owners, however.

them durned teacher / firefighter yoonyuns, i tells ya.
 
AdamT said:
You've got to give credit to Walker: I've never seen bigger balls on a squirrel. He cut over a billion dollars from schools and local governments to pay for over a billion dollars in tax cuts that primarily benefit the rich and corporations, and he's going to cry foul over the teachers' union's action? :lol:
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Tax payers in WI had enough of the high property tax and other taxes. I don't blame them, living in Illinois, I get it. I see what my taxes are and where that tax money gets funneled to. Allowing a business to keep more of their profits and allowing me to keep more of my salary - im a fan of both.
 
Helix said:
the Republican governor in my state is "sabotaging" schools by cutting funding by over $300 million dollars.
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When K-12 spending makes up half a state's budget and the state is in deficit, I don't see how cuts to education wouldn't have to be part of the balancing effort.

Unless you really expect them to raise taxes by almost 2 bil. Shrug. Looks like we'll just have ot disagree on that.
 
buck said:
Milwuakee teachers unions - putting the recall efforts above what's beneficial to the students and the school:

Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms
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You come after the union, they come after you. He tried to break them, now they're trying to break him. See where I'm going?

The teachers' union is looking out for teachers. That's their job. They made the funding concessions that were needed, but Walker tried to take it a step further. If they make concessions now, yes it hurts their political position. I guess bringing electoral politics into things like elections outrages you for some reason.
 
rocket88 said:
You come after the union, they come after you. He tried to break them, now they're trying to break him. See where I'm going?

The teachers' union is looking out for teachers. That's their job. They made the funding concessions that were needed, but Walker tried to take it a step further. If they make concessions now, yes it hurts their political position. I guess bringing electoral politics into things like elections outrages you for some reason.
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I get that when people are given free things for a while, they will get mad when someone tries to take those free things away. That's human nature. But no, it really doens't surprise me that the unions and teachers are putting themselves before the schools and the students. i suspect that this letter will hurt their political position with the WI voters. Guess we'll see.
 
buck said:
I get that when people are given free things for a while, they will get mad when someone tries to take those free things away. That's human nature. But no, it really doens't surprise me that the unions and teachers are putting themselves before the schools and the students. i suspect that this letter will hurt their political position with the WI voters. Guess we'll see.
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you don't seem to understand that nothing was FREE, the teachers work for their pay and their benefits.
 
liblady said:
you don't seem to understand that nothing was FREE, the teachers work for their pay and their benefits.
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Actually, they were being given their pension and benefits free of any charge or contribution. They will have, essentially, the same benefits, but will now have to contribute a bit.

I really don't care to get into the argument of wether they were overpaid. I'll say they were and i'll have a bunch of studies to show. You'll say they weren't and will have a bunch of union backed and affiliated studies to show.
 
buck said:
Actually, they were being given their pension and benefits free of any charge or contribution.
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NO, they were not given their pensions and benefits for free. They were part of their total compensation package. Just like if you get health insurance from your employer, it isn't free. Your employer is reducing your take home pay in order to pay for his or her portion of your insurance.
 
buck said:
Actually, they were being given their pension and benefits free of any charge or contribution. They will have, essentially, the same benefits, but will now have to contribute a bit.

I really don't care to get into the argument of wether they were overpaid. I'll say they were and i'll have a bunch of studies to show. You'll say they weren't and will have a bunch of union backed and affiliated studies to show.
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nope. wrong. benefits and pensions are negotiated as part of a salary PACKAGE, period. they work for those benefits, so stop with the "free" bs.
 
Unions attempt to thwart efforts to reduce pay/benefits/working conditions of their members. News at 11.
 
buck said:
Actually, they were being given their pension and benefits free of any charge or contribution. They will have, essentially, the same benefits, but will now have to contribute a bit.

I really don't care to get into the argument of wether they were overpaid. I'll say they were and i'll have a bunch of studies to show. You'll say they weren't and will have a bunch of union backed and affiliated studies to show.
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What part of compensation are you not getting?
 
AdamT said:
You've gotta laugh, right? Republicans crying, "think of the CHILDREN!!" while Republican governors and legislators across the country and slashing school spending to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations.
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While Democrats pump up their election coffers with union money, instead of worrying about that the kids are learning their worried about the survival of teachers unions.
 
American said:
While Democrats pump up their election coffers with union money, instead of worrying about that the kids are learning their worried about the survival of teachers unions.
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You'd be hard pressed to show those cutting education and proposing things like NCLB care very much about children. Too many republicans and their political nntertainer brothern have demonized teachers and such enough to make this more heated than it should be. If you really want something productive, stop calling everyone the enemy.
 
Boo Radley said:
What part of compensation are you not getting?
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While it's part of compensation, they were making no monetary contributions. It was mostly publicly funded, hence free to the employee.
 
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