Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

beerftw · Mar 15, 2012

Gladiator said:
"The New York Times, citing an unidentified senior US official, said the soldier had been flown to Kuwait. CNN also reported the sergeant had been taken there.

"Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s office was understood to have accepted that the soldier be tried in a US court, provided the process was transparent and open to media."

As US soldier who killed 16 Afghans is flown away, Panetta calls for restraint – The Express Tribune

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the military is not very know for hiding court martials for crimes already exposed to the public,those unknown to the public is a different story.

its what he deserves,he can basically claim insanity but court martials are conducted by a panel of high ranking government civilians and officers,and dont have to follow use court laws,but rather military laws.

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

beerftw said:
no one cares about bin laden,hes dead,and im sure what we killed was his lokkalike because no man suffers extreme kidney failure and live over a decade getting better with the years,in a country with no good hospitals.

You miss the point that we are bankrupting the country on endless optional wars. Many are concerned we have a spending problem that is out of control.

Not you though, huh?

Stormageddon · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
What do you think our decade long war is going to do to prevent the same conditions to occur once we leave?

What conditions prevented the Nazi's regaining power? We will continue to have a military presence in Afghanistan even after we officially end actual combat operations.

And what about the al Qaeda in other countries around the world? Are we going to have decade long wars in each of those countries as well?

Which countries are openly harboring AQ and doing absolutely nothing to combat them?

What was the decade long war with Iraq, the one country without al Qaeda, all about???

You're right, Saddam Hussein had absolutely nothing to do with international terrorism whatsoever. :roll:

Bin Laden said they would defeat America, not on the battlefield, but by draining our financial resources fighting endless war. It appears there are some that are determined to prove his prediction correct.

It appears that OBL is dead doesn't it?

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Stormageddon said:
What conditions prevented the Nazi's regaining power? We will continue to have a military presence in Afghanistan even after we officially end actual combat operations.

Just like we did in Iraq? Who do you suggest pays for it, or do we just put add to the National debt with the rest of the war debt?

Which countries are openly harboring AQ and doing absolutely nothing to combat them?

I provided the link above, check it out.

You're right, Saddam Hussein had absolutely nothing to do with international terrorism whatsoever.

Both the Pentagon and the CIA determined there was no Saddam/al Qaeda link. But we are to take your word over the findings of the Pentagon and the CIA?:lamo

It appears that OBL is dead doesn't it?

Yes, and it didn't take a decade long war against Pakistan to accomplish, did it?

Stormageddon · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
Just like we did in Iraq?

Are you saying that we don't have a military presence in Iraq?

Who do you suggest pays for it, or do we just put add to the National debt with the rest of the war debt?

lol we still have a military presence in Germany and Japan and South Korea and Britain etc. military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan will be no different and will not strain our economy.

I provided the link above, check it out.

You did no such thing sir, no government on the planet is openly harboring AQ.

Both the Pentagon and the CIA determined there was no Saddam/al Qaeda link. But we are to take your word over the findings of the Pentagon and the CIA?:lamo

I said "terrorism" not specifically AQ, however, apparently you haven't read the Pentagon's DOCEX report.

Yes, and it didn't take a decade long war against Pakistan to accomplish, did it?

It certainly did take human intelligence to capture him that we never would have had had it not been for the war in Afghanistan; furthermore, he would have never left Afghanistan in the first place had it not been for the war nor would his death have done anything to destroy the upper echelons of AQ leadership or the training camps operating in Afghanistan.

Oh and FYI sport you have once again ridiculously shifted your goals posts, at first you were denying that it was the Taliban who caused the majority of civilian deaths in Afghanistan, to then asserting that the Taliban were not responsible for the war to begin with because no Afghans were involved with the actual execution of the attack, and apparently now your argument is that even though it is the Taliban and AQ killing the civilians not the Coalition, and even though it is the Taliban and AQ who were the aggressors in this war not the Coalition, that the war was just unnecessary because nothing will be gained in the long run as if you have some magic ball, my argument is not based on predictions of what the future might bring it is based on the fact that without the war the Taliban and AQ would still be in power and without their actions 0 civilians would have died in this war because it is THEY not us who started it.

Grant · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
You miss the point that we are bankrupting the country on endless optional wars. Many are concerned we have a spending problem that is out of control.

Not you though, huh?

The US will continue to go deeper in debt, and lose more good people, unless they drop this "hearts and minds" thing and just bomb the crap out of anyone who attacks them, specifically targeting the leadership of any country which allows terrorists within their borders.

A good sized bomb should have been dropped on the Saudis long ago, and the same holds true with Iran. It saves a lot of lives in the long run.

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Grant said:
The US will continue to go deeper in debt, and lose more good people, unless they drop this "hearts and minds" thing and just bomb the crap out of anyone who attacks them, specifically targeting the leadership of any country which allows terrorists within their borders.

I guess you missed it somewhere along the way, but neither Afghanistan nor Iraq attacked the US.

A good sized bomb should have been dropped on the Saudis long ago, and the same holds true with Iran. It saves a lot of lives in the long run.

Why sure, further bankrupt the country and drive gas prices to $15 a gal - Good plan you've got there!!! :roll:

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Stormageddon said:
Are you saying that we don't have a military presence in Iraq?

All US Troops were withdrawn from Iraq by the end of last year, as demanded by Iraq.

lol we still have a military presence in Germany and Japan and South Korea and Britain etc. military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan will be no different and will not strain our economy.

You are living in McCain's mind. Yes, McCain wanted to keep military bases in Iraq till their oil runs out. That's why we elected the other guy.

You did no such thing sir, no government on the planet is openly harboring AQ.

Al-Qaeda around the world

I said "terrorism" not specifically AQ, however, apparently you haven't read the Pentagon's DOCEX report.

Post Persian Gulf war Iraq did not have the capacity to be military threat to the US or its neighbors.

Some have just let their fears and imaginations run away with them in their support of US hegemony in the middle east.

It is still a mystery to me where that kind of fear comes from in the most powerful country on the planet.

Gladiator · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
Post Persian Gulf war Iraq did not have the capacity to be military threat to the US or its neighbors.

.

Saddam Hussein was creating problems for Israel by paying the families of Palestinian suicide bombers $25,000.00, each. Syria was paying $10,000.00. Suicide bombers were making life in Israel, less pleasant. Some 200 suicide vests were found in Iraq in about 2002, during the second US invasion. Many in the US consider themselves part of the community of Western Nations, including Europe and Israel. This connection, of all Western nations, may be difficiult for American Indians to embrace.

Certainly there are cheaper ways to disrupt our enemies, rather than by nation re-building. It is in the interests of seeing our enemies, as our future friends, that gives many in America, and in the West, the heart to spend more than the minimum needed for disruption.

Many can laugh at the expectations of Dick Cheney to be welcomed into Iraq with flowers thrown in the path of the invading US troops. But the US put forth a lot of sacrifice to try to make Iraq a politcially viable country. For effort, the US deserves the friendhip of the Iraqis. Similarly, many in the US are trying to earn the friendship of the Afghans, through nation-building. The process is expensive, and progresses in fits and starts. With Two Steps Backwards, etc.

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Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Gladiator said:
Saddam Hussein was creating problems for Israel by paying the families of Palestinian suicide bombers $25,000.00, each. Syria was paying $10,000.00. Suicide bombers were making life in Israel, less pleasant. Some 200 suicide vests were found in Iraq in about 2002, during the second US invasion. Many in the US consider themselves part of the community of Western Nations, including Europe and Israel. This connection, of all Western nations, may be difficiult for American Indians to embrace.

The money was to aid families that suffered losses. We give money to Israel and they bombed Iraq, an act of war. We ourselves have given support to Saddam to attack Iran. We give lots of money to the Saudis and they attacked us on 9/11, and most of the suicide bombers in Iraq were Saudi. So what's your point? Do as we say, not as we do?

Certainly there are cheaper ways to disrupt our enemies, rather than by nation re-building.

Yeah, by not invading and occupying countries that are of no military threat to us.

Many can laugh at the expectations of Dick Cheney to be welcomed into Iraq with flowers thrown in the path of the invading US troops. But the US put forth a lot of sacrifice to try to make Iraq a politcially viable country.

Like we made the US a politically viable country for the native Americans?

For effort, the US deserves the friendhip of the Iraqis.

Funny that the Iraqis didn't see it that way when they kicked our ass out of their country, despite our having built big military bases there.

Similarly, many in the US are trying to earn the friendship of the Afghans, through nation-building. The process is expensive, and progresses in fits and starts. With Two Steps Backwards, etc.

And how's that going after more than a decade?

Karzai Says Afghans Would Back Pakistan in Clash With U.S. ...

j-mac · Mar 15, 2012

Peter King said:
Don't put words into my mouth. Wether or not he was wearing his uniform is of no importance to me. He could have been cross-dressing or been dressed in a g-string, it is not his clothes that determine if a person is a murderer but his actions. Going into a town and gunning 9 children down and a few more people is murder no matter who, how, what, where and because of what.

A killing spree is just as much murder as any other murder. And being insane is a legal term to describe why a murderer has done what he has done, it does not alter his status as murderer.

If you feel someone like that is in need of rehabilitation that is your issue, I think he needs to pay for his crimes, if he was a murderer that did so because he was insane he needs to first serve a prison sentence and then needs to be remanded until he no longer poses a threat to the population. I could care less if that means he has to be locked up until he is dead or that he can with treatment be seen as cured.

The investigation of this incident isn't even complete and you are ready to make him pay....Who made you judge, and jury?

j-mac

justabubba · Mar 15, 2012

j-mac said:
The investigation of this incident isn't even complete and you are ready to make him pay....Who made you judge, and jury?

j-mac

my understanding is that by showing up in these forums and acknowledging an understanding and acceptance of the rules is all that is needed to express an opinion - as he did

now if you are able to show me where he has an ability to influence the outcome of this case, then i will apologize for intruding

Oberon · Mar 15, 2012

j-mac said:
The investigation of this incident isn't even complete and you are ready to make him pay....Who made you judge, and jury?

j-mac

Indeed. Based on available info, he should at worst receive a medical discharge and a pension from what I've read about him so far. It was clearly a stress induced temporary insanity at best, and possibly a permanent disorder, yet to be determined.

At least Obama didn't throw him under the bus, which is surprising, re he will be tried here in the U.S. as opposed to being thrown to the Islamo-vermin in Afghanistan. Well, at least he hasn't yet, anyway.

As for the scum who are shooting American soldiers over this and the Quran burning, they should be hunted down and shot. We can then see if their families like the same sort of 'justice' their murdering vermin relatives indulged in.

j-mac · Mar 15, 2012

justabubba said:
my understanding is that by showing up in these forums and acknowledging an understanding and acceptance of the rules is all that is needed to express an opinion - as he did

Who said anything about him offering his opinion? That's fine....but can we at least complete the investigation before we say let's string him up?

j-mac

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Oberon said:
Indeed. Based on available info, he should at worst receive a medical discharge and a pension from what I've read about him so far. It was clearly a stress induced temporary insanity at best, and possibly a permanent disorder, yet to be determined.

Not that I think there is a chance in hell of that happening, but it would certainly bring about a quick end to our war in Afghanistan!

We would be kicked out Afghanistan just like were were kicked out of Iraq!

RDS · Mar 15, 2012

j-mac said:
The investigation of this incident isn't even complete and you are ready to make him pay....Who made you judge, and jury?

j-mac

He is guilty until proven innocent.

Grant · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
I guess you missed it somewhere along the way, but neither Afghanistan nor Iraq attacked the US.

The Taleban protected those who did, Iraq for other reasons.

Why sure, further bankrupt the country and drive gas prices to $15 a gal - Good plan you've got there!!! :roll:

Bomb the leadership and them just go in and take it. America could have taken control of all the Iraqi oil, as they should have, and oil prices would have come down.

Is this $15 a gallon scenario of your related to your ANWAR predictions of 21 cents?

j-mac · Mar 15, 2012

RDS said:
He is guilty until proven innocent.

Seems so in this blotto Obama world these days.

j-mac

Oberon · Mar 15, 2012

Catawba said:
Not that I think there is a chance in hell of that happening

Yeah, I'm pretty sure OBama and the Pentagon want a sacrifice for the lynch mobs gathering as we speak.

but it would certainly bring about a quick end to our war in Afghanistan!

And a major bloodbath will follow our withdrawal. This would happen regardless of any recent incidents, it's just the way it works over there.

We would be kicked out Afghanistan just like were were kicked out of Iraq!

We still have forces in Iraq; they may be private contractors, I'm not sure. Again, it's also a bloodbath that will run for a long time. Those cultures revel in them.

RabidAlpaca · Mar 15, 2012

j-mac said:
Seems so in this blotto Obama world these days.

j-mac

The hell? Since when was the right to a fair trial a modern, or even an obama concept? Obama has gone out of his way to sign the NDAA, which removed this right from American citizens.

j-mac · Mar 15, 2012

RabidAlpaca said:
The hell? Since when was the right to a fair trial a modern, or even an obama concept? Obama has gone out of his way to sign the NDAA, which removed this right from American citizens.

Exactly...I was addressing a poster that all but had the troop in question, strung up, and awaiting the jeers of the likes of him....

j-mac

RabidAlpaca · Mar 15, 2012

j-mac said:
Exactly...I was addressing a poster that all but had the troop in question, strung up, and awaiting the jeers of the likes of him....

j-mac

Lol, I always come in the conversation late, I thought he had said "innocent until proven guilty" not the other way around. Sorry about that.

j-mac · Mar 15, 2012

RabidAlpaca said:
Lol, I always come in the conversation late, I thought he had said "innocent until proven guilty" not the other way around. Sorry about that.

That's cool, easy to do sometimes....

j-mac

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Grant said:
The Taleban protected those who did, Iraq for other reasons.

You mean like we supported Saddam when he was attacking Iran?

Bomb the leadership and them just go in and take it. America could have taken control of all the Iraqi oil, as they should have, and oil prices would have come down.

It would have been a truer picture of our motivation but would have been too obvious for the rest of the world to abide.

Is this $15 a gallon scenario of your related to your ANWAR predictions of 21 cents?

No it is the scenario of your wish to bomb the hell out of the middle east.

Catawba · Mar 15, 2012

Oberon said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure OBama and the Pentagon want a sacrifice for the lynch mobs gathering as we speak.

No, I don't think Obama is stupid enough to set Afghanistan on fire.

And a major bloodbath will follow our withdrawal. This would happen regardless of any recent incidents, it's just the way it works over there.

That happens every time we insert ourselves in a civil war. Look at Vietnam and Iraq.

We still have forces in Iraq; they may be private contractors, I'm not sure. Again, it's also a bloodbath that will run for a long time. Those cultures revel in them.

There are no US troops in Iraq as McCain had planned. Civil wars always result in bloodshed. Have you forgotten how bloody our own civil war was?

Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

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