• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

Dont get me wrong BTW...the recent shootings criminal, horrific...and can should and absolutely will be punished. Just sayin...a group of people that routinely kill women for the crime of being seen in public with men...well...Im not sure they are exactly the arbiters of morality and positive social interactions.

I totally agree with you. I knew what you were saying. I just wanted to point out that their moral compass went to outrage at this...as it should have. However, I agree that they haven't always had great moral compasses.
 
Hey, anything to kill an infidel.
Right. As long as it is in the name of Allah. Hey...wait...do we know if the guy that went on the shooting spree recently converted? Cuz...if so...what...slap on the wrist...just actions in the name of fighting oppression?
 
Dont get me wrong BTW...the recent shootings are criminal, horrific...and can should and absolutely will be punished. Just sayin...a group of people that routinely kill women for the crime of being seen in public with men...well...Im not sure they are exactly the arbiters of morality and positive social interactions.

it doesn't matter right now. we should condemn the actions of the soldier and leave it at that. there is no point in referencing a culture we can't comprehend, and it makes no difference how they behave, that soldier committed a horrible crime.
 
Can we pull out of there already? I thought that mission is done, and historical evidence shows you cannot win positive control of that territory without unprecedented spending.
 
If a war is long enough, then there sure as hell is a reason.
Ever been there?

There are guys who have done six, seven, eight tours of duty without committing the acts that this guy has, not to mention the guy's comrades, some of whom I'm sure have been deployed just as much as he has without killing sixteen civilians. It is idiotic to attribute the cause of this incident to the number of deployments, seeing as this sergeant is an exception to the rule.
Yeah, and not every Soldiers experience is the same. We had one guy in my last unit that should have been chaptered out after he came back from his second deployment. The first one he got shot twice, and got blown up. During the middle of the second, he broke, and couldn't do it anymore. He should have been sent to mental health, but nope. They said the same thing to keep him in, that he was just faking it because there were guys that went on 3 or 4 tours. He shot himself in the head two months after coming back to the States.
 
Ever been there?

Nope. And I fail to see how this is relevant or addresses my point. The military finds warm bodies for its needs. Military necessity is a pretty damn good reason for why we have guys serving multiple tours. I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing, but there are indeed reasons for why we have guys serving so many tours.

Yeah, and not every Soldiers experience is the same. We had one guy in my last unit that should have been chaptered out after he came back from his second deployment. The first one he got shot twice, and got blown up. During the middle of the second, he broke, and couldn't do it anymore. He should have been sent to mental health, but nope. They said the same thing to keep him in, that he was just faking it because there were guys that went on 3 or 4 tours. He shot himself in the head two months after coming back to the States.

I never said war was fun or that it's cool that people serve multiple tours. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. I'm sure war can **** up your mind in multiple ways, but your argument was that the cause of this incident was because this guy served four tours. By that reasoning, all guys serving four tours or more would be going out and killing sixteen civilians and turning themselves in afterwards.
 
Last edited:
If a war is long enough, then there sure as hell is a reason. There are guys who have done six, seven, eight tours of duty without committing the acts that this guy has, not to mention the guy's comrades, some of whom I'm sure have been deployed just as much as he has without killing sixteen civilians. It is idiotic to attribute the cause of this incident to the number of deployments, seeing as this sergeant is an exception to the rule.
I agree it's idiotic to attribute his actions solely to deployment. If it were about deployment alone then every soldier deployed that many times would be doing these things. However, I don't think it's out of line to think that the number of deployments in addition to what he experienced on them might have contributed to his actions and potential psychotic break. It's also worth noting that not everything unethical military members do gets this amount of coverage. It's entirely possible that while things at this scale aren't happening frequently over there, callous things beyond the scope of combat are happening and are just not reported.
 
You need to convince the Afghans of this, not me! It is the Afghans that may retaliate and kill coalition forces, not me. It is the Afghans that can kick our ass out of their country, not me?

I'm not too worried. I figure that the average Afghani can see the obvious truth in my post, perhaps better than you've managed. Really, it's common sense. They see us prosecuting the criminal and notice a difference between the US and terrorists - even if you can't see it.
 
I'm not too worried. I figure that the average Afghani can see the obvious truth in my post, perhaps better than you've managed. Really, it's common sense. They see us prosecuting the criminal and notice a difference between the US and terrorists - even if you can't see it.

The average Afghani can't see your post because the average Afghani doesn't have internet access.
 
Last edited:
it doesn't matter right now. we should condemn the actions of the soldier and leave it at that. there is no point in referencing a culture we can't comprehend, and it makes no difference how they behave, that soldier committed a horrible crime.
Of course he did. Always said as much.
 
Why are we still there?
Because Bush didnt leave Obama an exit plan and strategy, nor did he have a prepositioned out agreement as they had in Iraq. They tried the 'surge'...now? I truly believe the reason we arent out is that Obama simply doesnt KNOW what to do. And really...he cant win. If we stay...more of the same. If we leave, republicans will rip him for 'retreating' or surrendering.

This ALL should have been resolved under Bush. People dont like specific dates...horse****. We should have committed to post war + 5-7 years tops and then turned everything over to them.
 
Because Bush didnt leave Obama an exit plan and strategy, nor did he have a prepositioned out agreement as they had in Iraq. They tried the 'surge'...now? I truly believe the reason we arent out is that Obama simply doesnt KNOW what to do. And really...he cant win. If we stay...more of the same. If we leave, republicans will rip him for 'retreating' or surrendering.

This ALL should have been resolved under Bush. People dont like specific dates...horse****. We should have committed to post war + 5-7 years tops and then turned everything over to them.

For Obama talking big and claiming "BOLD" solutions, he sure is hand wringing on Afghanistan. I think if he actually grew a set and proclaimed, "We killed Al Qaeda, we removed the Taliban from power, we will remove most of our troops from Afghanistan and keep bases open to continue to route Al Qaeda and Taliban resurgence" I think he'd get universal support.
 
Nope. And I fail to see how this is relevant or addresses my point.
It means you're another armchair admiral, with a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda's, sans any actual knowledge or experience of what's going on in real time.


I never said war was fun or that it's cool that people serve multiple tours. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. I'm sure war can **** up your mind in multiple ways, but your argument was that the cause of this incident was because this guy served four tours. By that reasoning, all guys serving four tours or more would be going out and killing sixteen civilians and turning themselves in afterwards.
No, my argument is that he needs to be examined, instead of being instantly judged and thrown to the wolves, because something was obviously wrong. I pointed at his multiple tours as a contributing factor in what appears, to me, to be some sort of psychological breakdown.
 
Last edited:
The average Afghani can't see your post because the average Afghani doesn't have internet access.

They can see the truth that is found in the post. That being, we do not glorify terrorists in our ranks - we prosecute them; we're different. You think the Taliban would prosecute their own for such things? They ordered such things. The difference will be obvious; it already is.
 
Last edited:
The average Afghani can't see your post because the average Afghani doesn't have internet access.

Even if they could the average afghani can't read. Of course...that's the average afghani male. If the female can read she gets the bad kind of stoned.
 
They aren't the ones turning their backs on their own like a lamb to the slaughter because it's the PC thing to do.

I don't know about you, but I don't call someone that kills women and children in their sleep, one of my own.
 
They can see the truth that is found in the post.

They have no media to examine all the evidence and decide for themselves. They are compelled to simply concur with whatever their elders tell them. Questioning an elder riscs execution. Even the rare few who have access to the rest of the world in some form are still compelled to say and act in certain ways so as to keep harm from befouling their families.
 
I don't know about you, but I don't call someone that kills women and children in their sleep, one of my own.


It's easy to distance yourself and claim no ties when things are difficult... it takes courage and honor to do it even when things are bad. I don't know the guy, he may be nutty as a fruitcake but he's still one of my own. He needs help and he must pay for his actions.
 
It's easy to distance yourself and claim no ties when things are difficult... it takes courage and honor to do it even when things are bad. I don't know the guy, he may be nutty as a fruitcake but he's still one of my own. He needs help and he must pay for his actions.

Help? A dogs death via bullet to the skull in the street is help enough. The poor thing! He hated Muslims and afghans so much he slaughtered families in their sleep with US military property. If he was killing Americans you'd want him deep fried. He's killing afghans and he is merely further on the slope that finds them less than human as you. The mufti should have his head on a stick.
 
It's easy to distance yourself and claim no ties when things are difficult... it takes courage and honor to do it even when things are bad. I don't know the guy, he may be nutty as a fruitcake but he's still one of my own. He needs help and he must pay for his actions.

There is no courage or honor in killing women and children in their sleep. Its just too bad that he will not be the only one to pay for his actions.
 
There is no courage or honor in killing women and children in their sleep. Its just too bad that he will not be the only one to pay for his actions.
Amen. If only the people that trip over themselves to excuse and justify the acts of terrorists were that plain spoken and direct instead of continually offering pathetic mealy mouthed excuses about how unfair life is and the occupation and its not all Muslims and blah blah blah...

'Like'...a thousand times 'like'. And of course you will be sure to jump in and condemn every terrorist act in the same manner...I have faith in you...so...like in advance...
 
Amen. If only the people that trip over themselves to excuse and justify the acts of terrorists were that plain spoken and direct instead of continually offering pathetic mealy mouthed excuses about how unfair life is and the occupation and its not all Muslims and blah blah blah...

'Like'...a thousand times 'like'. And of course you will be sure to jump in and condemn every terrorist act in the same manner...I have faith in you...so...like in advance...

I have never once condoned terrorism, no matter the flag under which it is done.

"Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore" - John Prine
 
Back
Top Bottom