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Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

Redress said:
This is not a failure of our military. This is a "**** happens" kinda thing. It's tragic, but the truth is these things will happen in war and nothing we do will change that.
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Point well taken. My phrasing basically conceded this as failure for our military, when it isn't. I stand corrected.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Yes, we do. And you know what? I'm really sick of this blindingly prideful mentality that people use to evaluate the US military. The man killed 16 CIVILIANS. Even if the toils of war made him snap, even if our military is doing the best it can and even if the United States is the objective "good guy" of the world, honorable people and nations apologize when they are wrong - they apologize when they or one of their citizens commit callous actions beyond the scope of combat while officially representing the country. It doesn't make us weak and it doesn't mean we are any less "good". In fact, it makes us better.
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When we are interacting with other cultures, it is imperative that we operate within those cultures. All of our Rules of Engagement are geared to do exactly that. If Afghani's (Taliban, too) see an apology as a sign of weakness, then an apology shouldn't be forthcoming. How much good did it do to apologize for burning the Korans? And what good does a mere apology do anyway?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I stand by my original comments that your original post was baseless and out of place. I also stand by the assertion that it's odd and questionable that you would chose to concentrate first and foremost on smearing other people based on actions that they haven't committed and ignoring the actual sad part of what has happened.


This isn't a failure of our military. This is the action of an individual that has destroyed the lives of many people. Saying that some anti-war people will be "happy" that some guy killed 16 civilians and destroyed many lives is a far cry from saying that some people "revel" in military failings. You're backtracking. Moreover, anti-war people are usually anti-war because they cannot stand it when things like this happen so it seems like you, as you often do, are twisting what people actually stand for in order to smear people you disagree with.
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Yeah, me saying that I stand by my original comment is me backtracking. :roll: I'm not smearing anyone. I made it clear that I think it's rare, but it is out there.

I would like to ask those anti-war people whom you reference if they only "cannot stand it when things like this happen" when it's someone wearing our uniform who does it? Where are the demands for apologies when it's our soldiers, citizens and allies who are targeted for violence?
 
X Factor said:
Yeah, me saying that I stand by my original comment is me backtracking. :roll: I'm not smearing anyone. I made it clear that I think it's rare, but it is out there.
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You are backtracking. You've come up with a completely different argument for me to address since you know that your original one is nonsense.

I would like to ask those anti-war people whom you reference if they only "cannot stand it when things like this happen" when it's someone wearing our uniform who does it? Where are the demands for apologies when it's our soldiers, citizens and allies who are targeted for violence?
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Give me a break. :roll:

Like I said, this isn't a failure of our military meaning that your argument about people "reveling" in our military failures is completely unrelated to your original argument. Your original comment remains out of place and illogical, particularly given the stance of anti-war people that war is bad because of the needless KILLING. And now since you've realized that your argument is illogical on so many levels, we get to the part of program (your program is always the same) where you deflect by asking "why don't they do X, Y and Z" random actions?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Being in a war is a mind bending experience, it brings out the best in some, the worst in others and now and then somebody just snaps. We owe no apology for one of our soldiers snapping during the process of trying to liberate Afghanistan from tyranny.
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Damn straight. Where was the apology for the colonel killed for us burning a ****ing book? **** those people. They kill us, we kill them. It's the game of life.

It's funny, when Afgan civilians kill US soldiers, that's no big deal, that's ok. But when US soldiers kill Afgan civilians (remember, Afghanistan has no military) an apology is required. I say lets get the **** out that **** hole.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Damn straight. Where was the apology for the colonel killed for us burning a ****ing book? **** those people. They kill us, we kill them. It's the game of life.

It's funny, when Afgan civilians kill US soldiers, that's no big deal, that's ok. But when US soldiers kill Afgan civilians (remember, Afghanistan has no military) an apology is required. I say lets get the **** out that **** hole.
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Afghanistan has a military...
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Being in a war is a mind bending experience, it brings out the best in some, the worst in others and now and then somebody just snaps. We owe no apology for one of our soldiers snapping during the process of trying to liberate Afghanistan from tyranny.
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So you are implicitly condoning the murder of civilians, or at least saying that it isn't a big deal. Nice to know.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Afghanistan has a military...
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Well, this is true, but only really because we trained them so we are on the same side. Not a military that is "against us" in this war.

You are correct, I was not clear enough on that.

StillBallin75 said:
So you are implicitly condoning the murder of civilians, or at least saying that it isn't a big deal. Nice to know.
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If you had the slightest clue what the Vietkong (sp?) did to our soldiers in Vietnam, you'd laugh at this.
 
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Demanding an apology from a terrorist/enemy soldier is like demanding honesty from a politician...t'ain't gonna happen and it's stupid to expect it to happen. Jesus Christ people. :roll:
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Damn straight. Where was the apology for the colonel killed for us burning a ****ing book? **** those people. They kill us, we kill them. It's the game of life.

It's funny, when Afgan civilians kill US soldiers, that's no big deal, that's ok. But when US soldiers kill Afgan civilians (remember, Afghanistan has no military) an apology is required. I say lets get the **** out that **** hole.
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Their drill may be out of step, but Afghan army is ready for the fight - Telegraph

Afghanistan has a military.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Well, this is true, but only really because we trained them so we are on the same side. Not a military that is "against us" in this war.

You are correct, I was not clear enough on that.
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Yes, but we are still fighting an armed enemy, although not uniformed. This does not make it okay for us to kill non-combatants, or to treat all non-combatants as the enemy. Apart from being morally wrong, it also isn't going to make our situation there more tenable.

I do agree with you that it is high time for us to get the hell out of there.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
If you had the slightest clue what the Vietkong (sp?) did to our soldiers in Vietnam, you'd laugh at this.
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One cannot justify ones actions via the actions of others.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Actually, what's sad is that 16 civilians are dead and one US soldier who probably should have been in a psych ward just took their lives, destroyed their families, ruined his life, hurt his own family tremendously and may have put the lives of American soldiers in addition to the mission at risk. That is what is sad. Your comment is just baseless and out of place.
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Too bad the the Libs and the MSM didn't have the same sympathy during the aftermath of the Fort Hood shooting. They could care less about thoise victims and families. Their main concern was to downplay the fact that the shooter was a radical Muslim.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
Demanding an apology from a terrorist/enemy soldier is like demanding honesty from a politician...t'ain't gonna happen and it's stupid to expect it to happen. Jesus Christ people. :roll:
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Just asking for a little parity here. Why should our enemies expect an apology from us if it's so unreasonable for us to expect one from them?
 
StillBallin75 said:
I do agree with you that it is high time for us to get the hell out of there.
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It's frustrating to us when we hear people say we need to leave Afghanistan, because we ARE leaving. We've been leaving for over a year, "force reductions" are ongoing, and all ISAF forces will be completely out by the end of 2014.
 
X Factor said:
Just asking for a little parity here. Why should our enemies expect an apology from us if it's so unreasonable for us to expect one from them?
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I don't think anyone's sugesting apologising to the enemy, but to the innocent civilians who lost their loved ones. Do you believe that all Afghan civilians are the enemy? I suspect the shooter did.
 
Terrible incident. Not just a tragedy. No justification for it. Its time to reach an end game there.

Let me just say preemptively to all those who express sympathies and understanding for the terrorists there that kill in the name of Allah (because after all WE cause it all and how can you really blame them) that this individual should NOT be excused simply because he is in an un-winnable conflict with no direction and/or guidance and is frustrated, hurt, upset, angry at all of his compatriots that he has seen killed maimed and wounded by the people they are there to help. No amount of protests and killing over the burning of the Koran justifies this action. I know the outpouring of sympathy and understanding is coming as quickly as the excuse and justifications for actions by terrorists. They werent/arent appropriate for them and arent appropriate for this individuals.
 
If troops weren't where they shouldn't be and under such great stress this wouldn't have happened. Hmmm
 
Why is an apology such a big deal? When I bump into someone at the grocery store, I apologize. Sometimes all I get in return is a dirty look but so what? Why should civility be considered a bad thing?

The Bush initial response in Afghanistan was completely correct and very well handled. We should have left after that but Bush and the MIC were swooning with love so Bush even threw Iraq in on the deal and sent his friends kids to run the Iraqi services and they stuffed their pockets with billions. Money is addictive, you can't have too much money.

Our own Govwernment owes us an apology for a decade of needless destruction and the sacrifie of so many lives. Don't hold your breath waiting.
 
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