FDNY ordered to hire minorities

[Neomalthusian]

Judges orders millions paid in NYC firefighter bias case - CNN.com

(CNN) -- A U.S. district judge ordered New York City to pay $128 million in to firefighters who allege the city used an entrance exam that deliberately sought to keep African-Americans and Latino Americans off the force. The judge also ordered the FDNY to hire 293 black and Latino applicants.

"It has been in the city's power to prevent or remedy the need for damages proceedings for a decade, and it has not done so," U.S. District Judge Nicholas G. Garufis said in his ruling on the class action lawsuit. He called it the "consequences of the city's decision to ignore clear violations of federal law."

*sigh​

 

[Republic Now!]

I'd like to see this entrance exam.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

The lawsuit alleged that the exams had little to do with firefighting and instead focused on cognitive and reading skills. Because of the hereditary nature of the fire department, white candidates were recruited and supported throughout the application process by family or neighborhood contacts and whites consistently passed while minority candidates failed.

I don't get it - are whites born more cognitively advanced or something?
Pray tell: if this is the case then why are there so many stupid ones living in my state! Did they all flee to New York?

Here: some sample questions used for test-prep:
25-question practice examination

• 1. At the scene of an over-turned semi-tractor trailer, the following materials were identified. One container of Sodium, two cases of gunpowder, two drums of Carbide, two cylinders of Hydrogen Cyanide, two cylinders of Nitrogen Dioxide, three cases of fireworks, three boxes of small arms ammunition, and five cases of dynamite. Each of the containers were identified with a separate color code/label. The color/label code that appeared most was which of the following:
  
  A) White (Poison A) B) Orange (Explosive C) C) Orange D) Red/white/blue
  

TYPE 1: EMERGENCY EVACUATION This type of evacuation procedure is used in such instances as the potential collapse of a structure and hazardous material incidents. All personnel inside the involved area will, without question, immediately evacuate the involved building or area, leaving all equipment in place. All personnel will immediately report back to their assigned apparatus or area designate by the Incident Commander

16. The most potentially serious mistake has been made if the Fire Alarm Office fails to notify which of the following:

• 
  A) The Fire Prevention Hazardous Materials Specialists that a cargo van spilled 50 gallons of toxic hazardous chemicals onto the road.
  
  B) The Environmental Protection Agency that a van overturned and leaked 3 gallons of used motor oil onto the roadside.
  
  C) The Fire Prevention Hazardous Materials Specialists that a truck overturned and spilled 8 gallons of distilled vodka onto the road.
  D) The affected wastewater treatment plant that a car carrying 30 gallons of gasoline overturned on a back alley.
  

I don't know: seems to me - if these questions are like the ones on the NYC test: that if you don't know what the most potentially serious mistake has been made if the Fire Alarm Office fails to notify of said event . . . .then maybe you're not going to fair very well when it comes time to actually respond and handle these situations.

If they truly are claiming that they are 'uneducated enough' then they should confront their public school system which has failed to educate them adequately. Or maybe be willing to consider what they could do (like study, perhaps) to learn the language and context of these issues.

 

[Harshaw]

If you cannot pass that test, then you should not be a firefighter. The public safety is in the balance.

 

[barbarian_style]

I don't get it - are whites born more cognitively advanced or something?
Pray tell: if this is the case then why are there so many stupid ones living in my state! Did they all flee to New York?

Sorry, we needed to send them somewhere and NY had no laws on being stupid.

 

[barbarian_style]

I'd like to see this entrance exam.

The FDNY Entrance Exam Is Designed to Weed Out 8-Year-Olds

 

[Republic Now!]

The FDNY Entrance Exam Is Designed to Weed Out 8-Year-Olds

Firefighters have responded to an apartment for an emergency water leak and are now standing in front of the door to the apartment. Which one of the following actions should the firefighters take first to gain entry into the apartment?

A) Knock loudly on the door and then try the doorknob.
B) Cut a hole in the door with a portable saw.
C) Strike one of the door hinges with the back of an axe.
D) Locate the fire escape and climb into the apartment through a window.

:lol:

I'm gonna go with B.

 

[Connery]

This is the central issue to the case, "whether the skills measured by the FDNY’s written exam have any relationship to skills necessary to be a good firefighter – the EEOC and DOJ have concluded that they do not. CCR contends that there is no reason the City should be using this test to hire firefighters and that continuing to use it is against the law." The court believed it did not. I agree with the court's holding as these tests have little to do with the job.

The court found:

The City has failed to demonstrate a sufficient relationship between the tasks of a firefighter and the abilities it intended to test on Exams 7029 and 2043. It has failed to take measures to ensure the reliability of those examinations; it has failed to take steps to ensure that that the reading level of the examinations was appropriate; it has failed to test for various recognized important abilities of a firefighter; it has failed to test for abilities needed upon entry into the Academy, rather than abilities to be learned on the job; it has failed to retain
testing professionals to devise the examination questions; and it has failed to demonstrate that the examinations it administered actually tested the abilities it intended to test. Compounding these
failings, the City has imposed arbitrary pass/fail scores, unrelated to the qualifications for the job of entry-level firefighter, and has constructed eligibility lists based on distinctions in test scores
that are unrelated to corresponding differences in the qualifications of firefighter candidates. Following the Second Circuit’s holding in Guardians, the court concludes that the City
improperly relied upon these poorly constructed examinations in the face of a disparate impact upon minority candidates.

http://ccrjustice.org/files/09.07.22_Garaufis Vulcans Opinion.pdf


Apparently something was not right with FDNY recruiting and testing methods. In 2011 "As part of a pilot program that was described in papers filed on Tuesday in Federal District Court in Brooklyn, members of the Vulcan Society, an organization of black firefighters that sued the city for discrimination, will be provided with a list of black applicants whose applications are incomplete, so that Vulcan members can visit their homes and encourage them to follow up." Further, " In 2011, the city launched a grassroots effort to recruit minority applicants. In total, 30,425 minority applicants have filed to take the test, representing 49.5% of the applicant pool. Female FDNY applicants have also surged, with 3,481 filing to take the test. The department currently has about three-dozen female firefighters."

 

[jimbo]

:lol:

I'm gonna go with B.

Firefighters have responded to an apartment for an emergency water leak and are now standing in front of the door to the apartment. Which one of the following actions should the firefighters take first to gain entry into the apartment?

A) Knock loudly on the door and then try the doorknob.
B) Cut a hole in the door with a portable saw.
C) Strike one of the door hinges with the back of an axe.
D) Locate the fire escape and climb into the apartment through a window.

I think it's C. If you are a firefighter, it's always good to whack something with your axe.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

As a firefighter, I'll say that passing a written exam is pretty damn important. Maybe some questions could be phrased better, but the statement that a written test has no bearing on whether or not someone should be a firefighter is completely wrong. Even if it does put emphasis on reading, firefighting involves a great deal of cognitive ability, because everyone has to be aware of their surroundings and think about what expertise and tools they need to do the job.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Also, I don't know about paid departments, but from the sound of it they are very much like volunteer departments in this regard. People who join the firefighting service tend to know people who already do it. My dad has been a firefighter for years; his neighbor convinced him to join. I joined with a friend. It sounds more like who did and did not join the department did so because of personal connections (not calling it nepotism, just greater familiarity with and support from people in the department) not racial lines.

 

[jimbo]

I don't see how a firefighters test could be devised that would favor one race over another unless blatant racial questions were asked. The only possible conclusion for me is that any test that compares the potential of a group of potential employees is considered racist and inherently biased.

 

[d0gbreath]

 

[justabubba]

Garaufis ruled previously that the Fire Department of New York discriminated against minorities in its entrance exam, saying black and Hispanic applicants had disproportionately failed the written examinations and those who passed were placed disproportionately lower down the hiring lists than whites.

[emphasis added by bubba]
Judge: NYC could owe over $128M in FDNY lawsuit - WSJ.com

 

[Thunder]

Jews make up 8% of NYC....yet much less than 8% of the FDNY.

how come there ain't no AA for Jews in the FDNY???????????

 

[jambalaya]

This is the central issue to the case, "whether the skills measured by the FDNY’s written exam have any relationship to skills necessary to be a good firefighter – the EEOC and DOJ have concluded that they do not. CCR contends that there is no reason the City should be using this test to hire firefighters and that continuing to use it is against the law." The court believed it did not. I agree with the court's holding as these tests have little to do with the job.

The court found:



http://ccrjustice.org/files/09.07.22_Garaufis Vulcans Opinion.pdf


Apparently something was not right with FDNY recruiting and testing methods. In 2011 "As part of a pilot program that was described in papers filed on Tuesday in Federal District Court in Brooklyn, members of the Vulcan Society, an organization of black firefighters that sued the city for discrimination, will be provided with a list of black applicants whose applications are incomplete, so that Vulcan members can visit their homes and encourage them to follow up." Further, " In 2011, the city launched a grassroots effort to recruit minority applicants. In total, 30,425 minority applicants have filed to take the test, representing 49.5% of the applicant pool. Female FDNY applicants have also surged, with 3,481 filing to take the test. The department currently has about three-dozen female firefighters."

It doesn't have ANY relationship to skills necessary to be a firefighter? Really? Statements like this make me very suspicious. I smell a judge that is making things up as he goes along. I think he saw that simply too many whites were getting the positions and concluded discrimination was going on and sought to find it.

 

[justabubba]

Jews make up 8% of NYC....yet much less than 8% of the FDNY.

how come there ain't no AA for Jews in the FDNY???????????

what percentage of the NYFD employees do the jews comprise?

 

[justabubba]

It doesn't have ANY relationship to skills necessary to be a firefighter? Really? Statements like this make me very suspicious. I smell a judge that is making things up as he goes along. I think he saw that simply too many whites were getting the positions and concluded discrimination was going on and sought to find it.

or he saw a group of good ole boys who were passing along job openings to their friends and family, using a test that the coached friends of the good ole boys would be expected to pass disproportionately

 

[Thunder]

or he saw a group of good ole boys who were passing along job openings to their friends and family, using a test that the coached friends of the good ole boys would be expected to pass disproportionately

baseless speculation.

if a company in Harlem has mostly black employees, and doesn't represent the racial & ethnic makeup of NYC, does that mean discrimination is taking place?

 

[justabubba]

baseless speculation.

if a company in Harlem has mostly black employees, and doesn't represent the racial & ethnic makeup of NYC, does that mean discrimination is taking place?

if a proportionate number of majority/white residents are taking the test and failing in disproportionate numbers, and the federal court finds that the qualifying test is rigged, yes, discrimination would then be indicated

 

[Thunder]

if a proportionate number of majority/white residents are taking the test and failing in disproportionate numbers, and the federal court finds that the qualifying test is rigged, yes, discrimination would then be indicated

there is no evidence of the test being rigged...unless you follow the "corrolation=causation" idea.

 

[jambalaya]

or he saw a group of good ole boys who were passing along job openings to their friends and family, using a test that the coached friends of the good ole boys would be expected to pass disproportionately

Maybe so. That should be the basis of his ruling then not the test.

 

[Thunder]

the tests in question, where being rigged is suspected: what percent of the test-takers were black? what percent of them failed...as compared to whites who failed?

what percent of the test-takers were Jews? what percent of them failed?

 

[MaggieD]

Judges orders millions paid in NYC firefighter bias case - CNN.com

*sigh​

So. The answer to the apparent fact that insiders within the NYFD excluded minorities by their testing procedures is to penalize an already burdened taxpayer with a $128 million award.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. Not. Legal penalties against the insiders who did this...not yet another crushing blow to taxpayers.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Jews make up 8% of NYC....yet much less than 8% of the FDNY.

how come there ain't no AA for Jews in the FDNY???????????

Yes - and as we all know Jews control the world with their minority of numbers yet dominance in every industry - so in all due actuality: Jews should be 100% of the force and everyone else should be a minority.

Or is it that Jews are setting buildings on fire and thus financially benefiting from the expense of efforts?

Either way: Jews dominate the world; we all know this. Common knowledge.

(just in case: no - I'm not being remotely serious)