• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Explosive Growth of Militias

The Southern Poverty Law Center... Give me a break.
 
AdamT said:
That's right, because Bubba and Timmy running around the woods in their little soldier outfits are JUST like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison! :2rofll:
Click to expand...




could be worse, they could be like biff and reginald, sitting on the playing soldier on thier xbox's. :shrug:
 
As a soldier who would be called up to assist local law enforcement in quelling riots or other civil unrest, I welcome the formation of organised militias. Think of the repor we could develop between the militia and law enforcement, between the militia and the Guard. Militia folks could get a firm grasp on their roll, where the lines of responsibility are, how to interact with law enforcement and the Guard, and most importantly that every bullet has a lawyer attached to it.

Organised militia can create an orientation program for unorganized militia, also.

Good working relationships between entities are always a good thing.
 
Last edited:
lizzie said:
I have a Muslim friend from Syria. He's highly educated and makes a good living. He owns a 1000 thousand acre ranch about 1/1/2 hours west of here. Three or four times a year, he takes about 20-30 of the guys at work out to his ranch, and they shoot all day. Shoot wild hogs, shoot rocks, shoot targets, drink beer, and there are lots of guns on the premisis. Should he be suspected of being a muslim extremist, because of this behavior, or must there be more evidence of his nature and intent? Afterall, he's *muslim-looking*, and he takes a bunch of guys out to shoot in the woods.
Click to expand...

Clearly it would take more than that to raise suspicion. For example, if they called the group "Militia Jihad" or somesuch, and had a web page with tons of inflammatory rhetoric suggesting that they might just go postal against the U.S. government should *they* determine that the government has taken some kind of action, or the courts have made some kind of decision, that *they,* in all their wisdom, deem inappropriate.
 
AdamT said:
Instead of focusing on the (mostly freakish) militias that were cited to me as being legitimate, perhaps I should try a wider search....

Nah, nothing to see here, folks. Move along. :roll:
Click to expand...

The research you provided noted eight violent militia members. Are you implying all militia are in some way connected to the radical ones?

That logic in turn would indicate Obama as potentially dangerous due to his long standing relationships with radicals Bill Ayres, Bernardine Dohrn, and Saul Alinsky, to name a few.
 
hazlnut said:
Racists hate that place, because they keep tabs on all the extreme groups.

Just saying'...
Click to expand...


they are pimps who scare paranoid lefties into giving them lots of money.
 
TurtleDude said:
they are pimps who scare paranoid lefties into giving them lots of money.
Click to expand...


Why do you say that? -- What's your source on stories about them that have shaped your opinion?

Also, many extreme leftist groups are investigated regularly by them.

So your comment on the surface seems like ignorant ranting.
 
hazlnut said:
Why do you say that? -- What's your source on stories about them that have shaped your opinion?

Also, many extreme leftist groups are investigated regularly by them.

So your comment on the surface seems like ignorant ranting.
Click to expand...

They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.

Morris Dees is a pimp pure and simple. he has become addicted to the limelight and has become mastered by his own mythology. Anyone who opposes Obamacare or the Obama administration apparently has racist motivations according to that turd. Any pro gun group is seen as some sort of sinister "militia"


here are some of the criticisms of Dees and the SPLC

Intolerance Identified - Morris Dees and The Southern Poverty Law Center - article on the SPLC, Morris Dees and hate crime

Oregon Firearms Federation
 
TurtleDude said:
They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.
Click to expand...

Hrrm whutz the hurkalurp am I reeding?
 
From Wiki
Dees has faced criticism that he uses too much of the Southern Poverty Law Center's fundraising intake as personal income - and even accusations that the SPLC exists mostly as a fundraising vehicle. A 2000 article by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, titled "The Church of Morris Dees", alleged that Dees kept the SPLC focused on fighting anti-minority groups like the KKK, instead of on issues like homelessness, mostly because of the greater fundraising potential of the former. The article also claimed that the SPLC "spends twice as much on fund-raising--$5.76 million last year--as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses."[16] In 2005, Washington Times editor Wesley Pruden called Dees "nothing more than a scam artist."[17] Stephen Bright, an Atlanta-based civil rights attorney, wrote in 2007 that Dees was "a con man and fraud", who "has taken advantage of naive, well-meaning people–some of moderate or low incomes–who believe his pitches and give to his $175-million operation."[18]
 
TurtleDude said:
they are pimps who scare paranoid lefties into giving them lots of money.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, because the SPLC also keeps tabs on black extremists groups and Islamic extremist groups. Won't see many Libbos starting threads about that, though.
 
TurtleDude said:
They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.

Morris Dees is a pimp pure and simple. he has become addicted to the limelight and has become mastered by his own mythology. Anyone who opposes Obamacare or the Obama administration apparently has racist motivations according to that turd. Any pro gun group is seen as some sort of sinister "militia"


here are some of the criticisms of Dees and the SPLC

Intolerance Identified - Morris Dees and The Southern Poverty Law Center - article on the SPLC, Morris Dees and hate crime

Oregon Firearms Federation
Click to expand...

I was looking for objective investigations into or stories about SPLC--and I think you knew that.

However, I glanced at both of your links and from the start they read like WND paranoia--designed to further gin up resentment toward the SPLC without really giving reasons other than "lefties"... A catch-all phrase for non-critical thinking individuals.

I have read things about the ACLU that disturb me. IMO, they're overzealously going after religious symbols, God in pledge, etc. But I haven't read anything negative about SPLC. They gather data on some pretty bad folks and write reports. They are invited by police departments to speak and share data. Why do you have a problem with that?

Do you have a comment on their data? Are they unfairly writing reports on perfectly harmless people?

I could see how you might argue that SPLC doesn't seem have any reports on extreme-left Anarchist groups. They do have reports on Black Separatists, Nation of Islam, Farrakhan, etc.

In the SPLC mission statement they say: Dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry.

I have no problem in a organization having a mission statement and sticking to it. In fact, I respect that. I would be open to discussing violent groups not listed by SPLC and whether or not those groups fall outside the mission statement. Meaning show me how the SPLC is ignoring a certain group.

Criteria:

1) The group has a history of violence and is active.

2) The group's philosophy would be considered by most to be racist and bigoted.

Show me a group ignored by SPLC that meets that criteria and we can discuss further.

Just to be clear, I don't associate any racist group with the mainstream right or left. I am disturbed when any mainstream party baulks on condemning extremist actions.

In the run up to the election, if GOP rallies get heated like 2008, and people shout out "kill him" or "muslim" when Obama is mentioned, I'll be interested to see if the GOP candidate has the class to handle it the way McCain did and try calm everyone down.


Lastly, you described the SPLC as 'pimps', could you elaborate?
 
TurtleDude said:
From Wiki
Dees has faced criticism that he uses too much of the Southern Poverty Law Center's fundraising intake as personal income - and even accusations that the SPLC exists mostly as a fundraising vehicle. A 2000 article by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, titled "The Church of Morris Dees", alleged that Dees kept the SPLC focused on fighting anti-minority groups like the KKK, instead of on issues like homelessness, mostly because of the greater fundraising potential of the former. The article also claimed that the SPLC "spends twice as much on fund-raising--$5.76 million last year--as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses."[16] In 2005, Washington Times editor Wesley Pruden called Dees "nothing more than a scam artist."[17] Stephen Bright, an Atlanta-based civil rights attorney, wrote in 2007 that Dees was "a con man and fraud", who "has taken advantage of naive, well-meaning people–some of moderate or low incomes–who believe his pitches and give to his $175-million operation."[18]
Click to expand...


Please don't forget to include a link so we can go back to the source and read the quote in context.

The first criticism accuses SPLC of following its stated mission. And, so... I'd have to see the entire Harper's magazine article to really understand what is being said re: fundraising.

Washington Times editor and 1 (one) civil rights attorney. No history or context of either person given.

I think you'll agree, it's all pretty weak so far.

You take what just about any group does out of context, and it could potentially seem negative, given the right spin.
 
apdst said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, because the SPLC also keeps tabs on black extremists groups and Islamic extremist groups. Won't see many Libbos starting threads about that, though.
Click to expand...


remind me of rich right wingers who give Morris Dees lots of money because of that. I bet you cannot
 
hazlnut said:
Please don't forget to include a link so we can go back to the source and read the quote in context.

The first criticism accuses SPLC of following its stated mission. And, so... I'd have to see the entire Harper's magazine article to really understand what is being said re: fundraising.

Washington Times editor and 1 (one) civil rights attorney. No history or context of either person given.

I think you'll agree, it's all pretty weak so far.

You take what just about any group does out of context, and it could potentially seem negative, given the right spin.
Click to expand...

My bad, I was under the assumption that most people on this board could type MORRIS DEES into a google search and find that easily

sorry
 
TurtleDude said:
My bad, I was under the assumption that most people on this board could type MORRIS DEES into a google search and find that easily

sorry
Click to expand...

Generally when sourcing something, you include a link. Wiki is fine, as long as the links to the sources are still active.

Feel free to address any points that I made in the 2 previous posts.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060281893 said:
The research you provided noted eight violent militia members. Are you implying all militia are in some way connected to the radical ones?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not implying that.

My research comprised something like a two-minute Google search, so I'm sure there's probably more to be found.
 
TurtleDude said:
They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.

Morris Dees is a pimp pure and simple. he has become addicted to the limelight and has become mastered by his own mythology. Anyone who opposes Obamacare or the Obama administration apparently has racist motivations according to that turd. Any pro gun group is seen as some sort of sinister "militia"


here are some of the criticisms of Dees and the SPLC

Intolerance Identified - Morris Dees and The Southern Poverty Law Center - article on the SPLC, Morris Dees and hate crime

Oregon Firearms Federation
Click to expand...

So you're saying they're a lot like the NRA?
 
AdamT said:
So you're saying they're a lot like the NRA?
Click to expand...



Nope not at all. THe NRA was rated by a major librarian association as having among the most factually accurate information.
 
TurtleDude said:
Nope not at all. THe NRA was rated by a major librarian association as having among the most factually accurate information.
Click to expand...

Was that the Reagan library association? :lol:

February 11, 2012

A top NRA official has gone on the record with his belief that if Obama is elected for a second term he plans to effectively end the 2nd amendment with an all out ban on guns.

NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said that Obama’s 1st term low key approach on gun rights was a conspiracy to ensure reelection for a second term where he plans a full destruction of Americans 2nd amendment rights.
Click to expand...
 
TurtleDude said:
Nope not at all. THe NRA was rated by a major librarian association as having among the most factually accurate information.
Click to expand...

"major librarian association"... ?? :lol::lol::lamo

Okay, I'll bite, link please...
 
Thunder said:
that's you talking, not I.

personally, I think we have a lot more to fear from right-wing militias & left-wing revolutionary groups, than from the government
Click to expand...

You say "a lot more". That implies we have "some" to fear from our government.

We should not fear our government at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom