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Explosive Growth of Militias

TurtleDude said:
If they don't engage in violence so what? I don't believe in prior restraint. And if they want to rise up and rebel, that will solve the problem and allow us to rid the country of a bunch of left wing whackos who probably support the dem party anyway
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Interesting. So we really shouldn't be pursuing suspected terrorists at all. We should just wait for them to blow something up and then react to the devastation?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with making me feel better and more to do with the fact that I destroyed your argument.
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you doubt wrong.

In fact, I was not trying to make someone like you feel better. If you are so inclined to believe a spokepersons word from such a group as total fact, then I feel sorry for you.

It amazes me how quickly you objected to someone doubting the SPLC statement by jumping on the statement of they may have an agenda (hidden or otherewise). Some of what they say may be valid, some of it is suspect, (imo). Yet you provide no proof of to the SPLC claim other than their spokeperson said it.

IMO the SPLC is a left wing biased group.

"Commentator Don Feder, in an article that appeared in Front Page magazine, wrote:
"What makes the Southern Poverty Law Center particularly odious is its habit of taking legitimate conservatives and jumbling them with genuine hate groups (the Klan, Aryan Nation, skinheads, etc.), to make it appear that there’s a logical relationship between say opposing affirmative action and lynching, or demands for an end to government services for illegal aliens and attacks on dark-skinned immigrants. The late novelist/philosopher Ayn Rand called this “the broad-brush smear.”2

In 1990, Morris Dees himself received an award named for an advocate of communism. Called the Roger Baldwin Award, this dubious honor is conferred by the left-wing American Civil Liberties Union, which Baldwin founded.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
How many militia men do you know? :lamo


"he election of President Barack Obama in 2008 triggered an explosion in the number of militias and so-called patriot groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported in its annual tally of such anti-government organizations."


Read it carefully, this liberal "think tank" has an agenda. Who are these "patriot groups" and what non biased observation would opine that in a report? This group like to attach "racism" to whatever it can. cheapening the real issue of racism.

Name them.
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So in other words you have no evidence?
 
AdamT said:
Interesting. So we really shouldn't be pursuing suspected terrorists at all. We should just wait for them to blow something up and then react to the devastation?
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Remember, Terrorists are from foreign countries.

If you blow up an abortion clinic, you're a Christian.

Or if you murder women and children by bombing a building in Oklahoma City, you're a far-right Patriot watering the tree of Liberty.
 
Honestly, if these guys want to play militia or dooms day prepper, or candy land, or monopoly, or whatever.

That is fine as long as they aren't bothering other people.
 
It is not just the SPLC

Anti-government hate militias on the rise - CNN
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QlTu0bpnAUoLyJN5w&sig2=wYvkeekIaoAs1COOOQxUJw
menu
Militia Groups

There are plenty of "lists" just google it.
There are also "left-wing" groups that are being watched by the FBI (as well as right-wing). There are various kinds of domestic terrorism (eco, animal rights, civil rights etc..)

When dems are in the white house we see a rise in right wing groups and the opposite is true for when the GOP is in the white house. There have been plenty of left wing groups in history that have made news. SDS, weather Underground, Black Panthers, MOVE, SLA etc...

There are extremists on both sides of the spectrum. There is also activity that goes on that we do not hear about because the general public has lost interest and unless there is bloodshed, we do not hear about it. The FBI and ATF have gotten pretty good at tracking and putting a stop to things before they happen (which is kind of scary).
 
AdamT said:
Interesting. So we really shouldn't be pursuing suspected terrorists at all. We should just wait for them to blow something up and then react to the devastation?
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What, specifically, makes them "suspected terrorists"?
 
megaprogman said:
Honestly, if these guys want to play militia or dooms day prepper, or candy land, or monopoly, or whatever.

That is fine as long as they aren't bothering other people.
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The problem is, they max out their credit cards buying up guns, then they have to sell off a few to pay the rent. That's how guns cross from grey to black market--unregulated "private" sales.


"I know a guy who will take those extra guns offa you, Hoss." (and sell them to drug dealers or home invaders or some crazy f-er who just wants to shoot up the place...)
 
hazlnut said:
The problem is, they max out their credit cards buying up guns, then they have to sell off a few to pay the rent. That's how guns cross from grey to black market--unregulated "private" sales.


"I know a guy who will take those extra guns offa you, Hoss." (and sell them to drug dealers or home invaders or some crazy f-er who just wants to shoot up the place...)
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Honestly, a few hundred more guns on the streets at this point doesn't matter. I wish I didn't happen, but you are probably addressing .0001% of the issue through militias. Money can be better spent so it is not sufficient justification in my eyes. There is simply no ROI there.

Now if one of these groups actually did damage to people, property, or whatever, then shut them down with whatever force is deemed appropriate.
 
lizzie said:
They're pretty well known for employing the use of fear tactics. Last time I check on their site, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, they had the rebel flag listed in the hate symbol pics.
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That's the one. Good luck in finding an unbiased source of their information.
 
Harshaw said:
What, specifically, makes them "suspected terrorists"?
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There are thousands of words of this ****, but here are the last few paragraphs on one of the websites that was cited to me to demonstrate that these are just "legitimate civilian militias".

And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery.

If it is to be the former, I will meet you at the new Yorktown. If it is to be the latter, I will meet you at Masada. But I will not be a slave. And I know that whether we succeed or fail, if we should fall along the way our graves will one day be visited by other free Americans, thanking us that we did not forget that, with the help of Almighty God, in the hands of a free man a handgun CAN defeat a tyrant's army..

http://texasmilitia.info/
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That's just from the first link that was cited to show how legitimate these folks are. You can do the rest of the research on your own time.
 
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AdamT said:
There are thousands of words of this ****, but here are the last few paragraphs on one of the websites that was cited to me to demonstrate that these are just "legitimate civilian militias".

That's just from the first link that was cited to show how legitimate these folks are. You can do the rest of the research on your own time.
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That doesn't say anything which isn't reflected in the Declaration of Independence.

Thin gruel. But even if it weren't, that's only one.

And no, it's YOUR research to do, because YOU made the claim. Aren't you a graduate of law school? Don't know you know that the prosecution has to make the case? This is a simple logical principle.
 
Harshaw said:
That doesn't say anything which isn't reflected in the Declaration of Independence.

Thin gruel. But even if it weren't, that's only one.

And no, it's YOUR research to do, because YOU made the claim. Aren't you a graduate of law school? Don't know you know that the prosecution has to make the case? This is a simple logical principle.
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The Declaration of Independence is about as relevant to the imagined actions of President Obama as are the inscriptions on the Tomb of Hammurabi.

As to who made what claim, you made four or five posts defending the militias before I even set foot in the thread.

Making threats against government officials is a serious felony.
 
AdamT said:
The Declaration of Independence is about as relevant to the imagined actions of President Obama as are the inscriptions on the Tomb of Hammurabi.
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Yeah, and the TX militia didn't mention President Obama.


As to who made what claim, you made four or five posts defending the militias before I even set foot in the thread.
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You claimed they were "suspected terrorists." It's up to you to show why.


Making threats against government officials is a serious felony.
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:roll: Where's the "threat"? It's about as much of a threat as the motto of the state of New Hampshire, 'coz it says the same thing.
 
Alright, let's go to the SECOND link that was provided to me to establish that citizen militias are legitimate. Here are the first few paragraphs on their website:

Congress lady Gabrielle Gifford was shot and hit in the head by a shooter or shooters along with a federal Judge who was killed We of the 31st Field Forces Alpha Unit Medical condemned this action in the strongest
terms available No legitimate operating Militia had anything to do with This

We may not agree or like certain things we may wind up seeing some kind of internal conflict but we do not start things nor do we shoot at or kill unarmed people ,we are not in the habit of hurting people like this. Our hearts go out to the families of the dead and injured.

Recently a national commanders conference was held with a guy by the name of TIM TURNER who claims to be the president of the restored united states of America he has selected already his cabinet and governor for each state with out a vote from the American people the commanders confrence which took place in Kentuckey left a lot of Militia officers Pissed off at this guy for good measure Mr Turner is planning a preemptive strike to replace our current system of government which would be unconstitutional for him to do so .Calling himself president and the measures he has taken is nothing Short Of TREASON
No legitimate Militia will support such a disaster undertaking we Are defensive in nature we dont start wars or civil conflict .

...

I spoke with General Norm Olsen, founder of Michigan Militia, tonight over the telephone. He called me on the Tim Turner situation and agrees with me: this guy is: 1) up to no good, 2) very dangerous and needs to be stopped before something bad happens . Apparently, some of his guys had contact with Mr. Turner and had a lot of questions about him .

The General, now Commander of Alaska Militia, has asked me to remind everyone a few things. He told me I could give you guys the gist of our conversation using his name
in these simple truths.

1 "We are defensive in nature; we are reactive, not proactive in our Militia operations."
"We act when we are attacked, not before."

2. "Don't let this guy get you or your units into a disastrous political coup attempt."

3."They tried things with Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC and 911; now they may be trying to push a political coup."
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*cough*
 
AdamT said:
Alright, let's go to the SECOND link that was provided to me to establish that citizen militias are legitimate. Here are the first few paragraphs on their website:



*cough*
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I coughed, too, because if you're trying to disprove your own claim, you're doing a bang-up job. No, really.
 
Harshaw said:
Yeah, and the TX militia didn't mention President Obama.

You claimed they were "suspected terrorists." It's up to you to show why.

:roll: Where's the "threat"? It's about as much of a threat as the motto of the state of New Hampshire, 'coz it says the same thing.
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Actually, the Texas Militia website does make reference to "Obama's Hitler Youth Corps". But if you just search for "Obama" you might miss some stuff, like "socialist Obamination regime in Washington" which is apparently more anti-gun than "the Clintonistas" (despite the complete absence of any actual or proposed anti-gun regulations).
 
Harshaw said:
I coughed, too, because if you're trying to disprove your own claim, you're doing a bang-up job. No, really.
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Huh, how would you say that one militia claiming that another militia is committing treason argues against my claim that militias may be suspect?

:popcorn2:
 
AdamT said:
Actually, the Texas Militia website does make reference to "Obama's Hitler Youth Corps". But if you just search for "Obama" you might miss some stuff, like "socialist Obamination regime in Washington" which is apparently more anti-gun than "the Clintonistas" (despite the complete absence of any actual or proposed anti-gun regulations).
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Funny how you yourself seemed to have missed quite a bit at that link:

Militias are not in favor of having another revolution in America. We are for restoring a literal interpretation of the United States Constitution as the founding fathers intended with a strong emphasis on the bill of rights, states rights, and a limited federal government. Militias are not illegal. Militias are not anti-government. Militias are authorized by the US Constitution.
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Militias are for enforcing the US Constitution and recognizing it as the supreme law of the land superior to any international treaties and superior to any Untied Nations rulings. Militias are the last line of defense against tyranny and invasion. The Second Amendment is not about the right to keep firearms to go hunting. The Second Amendment is about the right of the people to keep and bear firearms to prevent a tyrannical government from infringing upon our God given rights and to ensure our ability to defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic.
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I can see how you missed it, though; it was only among the very first words on the site.
 
AdamT said:
Huh, how would you say that one militia claiming that another militia is committing treason argues against my claim that militias may be suspect?

:popcorn2:
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Uh, no, actually, it was two militias communicating with each other about a nutjob they wanted no part of.

If you're right, you shouldn't have to lie about it.
 
Harshaw said:
Funny how you yourself seemed to have missed quite a bit at that link:

I can see how you missed it, though; it was only among the very first words on the site.
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No, I didn't miss it at all. There's a lot of contradictory **** on their website. Were you actually expecting them to make explicit threats on a public web page? Basically what it all boils down to is that they're not going to "start anything" ... but if the government does something they disagree with ... well ... that's the GUBMINT startin' somethin'!!
 
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