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Explosive Growth of Militias

by the logic of some folks here, the Black Panthers and FALN, were good ol' American partriotic militia groups. fightin' fer freedom..and stuff.

:)

Indeed, that's why Bill Ayers is such a hero to the Right.
 
Wait, the Revolutionary War was about gun control? You learn something every day.... :roll:



You're either being disingenuous or you need to study history a bit more. At least one of the earliest actual battles was fought because the British forces were moving to seize a militia armory and confiscate the weapons and powder stored there.

The war was not about gun control, but the oppressors' first overt move was an attempt to remove effective military arms from the citizenry.
 
Wait, the Revolutionary War was about gun control? You learn something every day.... :roll:

Rise! Rise! Rise my friend from the shackles of ignorance!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_Alarm

The removal of gunpowder, though false alarm was thought of as a trigger to the revolutionary war.


The Good Reverend has delivered you from darkness into the light. Praise him! Praise him! For he is good! :pimpdaddy:
 
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You're either being disingenuous or you need to study history a bit more. At least one of the earliest actual battles was fought because the British forces were moving to seize a militia armory and confiscate the weapons and powder stored there.

The war was not about gun control, but the oppressors' first overt move was an attempt to remove effective military arms from the citizenry.

is the Crown seizing our guns, even ONCE mentioned in the many reasons to revolt, that were given in the Declaration of Independence?
 
...The removal of gunpowder, though false alarm was thought of as a trigger to the revolutionary war....

And yet, not ONE mention of gun rights in the Declaration of Independence:

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions
 
Wait, the Revolutionary War was about gun control? You learn something every day.... :roll:

Here's a brief synopsis for you from historyworld.net:

Lexington and Concord: AD 1775

The target of General Gage's supposedly secret foray is a store of weapons held at Concord, twenty miles northwest of Boston. But the secret leaks out. When a force of 700 redcoats moves from the city, a horseman gallops from Boston to warn the local Patriots of their approach.

Popular tradition has long identified the horseman as the distinguished Huguenot silversmith Paul Revere. The tradition may well be correct. Revere, one of the 'Indians' taking part in the Tea Party of 1773, often rides with urgent messages from Boston's Committee of Public Safety.










On April 19 the redcoats reach Lexington, on the road to Concord. They find some seventy-five minutemen (the local name for volunteers ready to mobilize at a moment's notice) waiting to oppose their passage. It is not known who fires the first shot - later immortalized by Ralph Waldo Emerson as 'the shot heard round the world'. But after a brief engagement eight minutemen are dead and ten wounded.

The British contingent marches on to Concord, only to find that all the weapons have been removed. Meanwhile the Massachusetts militia has assembled in force. The redcoats suffer heavily from snipers on the journey back to Boston. The American Revolution, also known as the War of American Independence, has begun.


Read more: THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
 
and here we have the Libertarian version of the American War for Independence.

;)

Hey man- my own views are those of the founding fathers. That puts me in pretty damn good company.
 
Rise! Rise! Rise my friend from the shackles of ignorance!

Powder Alarm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The removal of gunpowder, though false alarm was thought of as a trigger to the revolutionary war.


The Good Reverend has delivered you from darkness into the light. Praise him! Praise him! For he is good! :pimpdaddy:

Haha! That's like saying the Libyan war was about gun control because we first went in took out their ammo dumps. :lol:
 
I don't think the epitome of patriot was attacking the government when the nation was founded.

Really? And exactly how did the US become an independent nation? Could not of been people who considered themselves Patriots that attacked the existing British government, could it? Our Founding Fathers very much believed in violent revolution to over-throw unjust rule, if they hadn't, we would all still be British citizens not Americans. These people who are idolized as the epitome of Patriotism in America were in fact rebels against the then existing government.

The founding fathers also recognised the possiblity that tyranny and an unjust government may once again arise and included the right to keep and bear arms as a means of stopping it. The rise of militias to return to America a just and constitutional government if the government seized enough power to start deny fundimental rights, siezing properties and many other similar things that were happening in America at the time of the revolution is exactly what they envisioned and made allowances for. And of course, any government, so accused, would deny these claims of unconstitionality and being unjust and would indeed claim that those militias were acting illegally and not in accordance with the constitution.

Are these groups right in their exertion that the government has now become unconstitional and unjust? Just like in 1776, each and every citizen will have to make that determination on their own, chose their side and live with the consequences of their choice.

While I may not support violent actions against the government, I can forsee a time when it may indeed become necessary. If violence were to escalate into a new revolution in the near future, I would definitely have to chose the side opposing Obama and the Democrats agendas, but until that time I can still work for a peaceful settlement of the differences. While many of these groups may be "nuts", not every point they bring up is inaccurate or wrong. Partisanship has been growing in this country for more than a decade. We have been becoming more and more divided and whether today or in the future, at some point, these divisions are going to break out into violence. I am not overly concerned about the radical fringe groups, I am more concerned with just how wide that "fringe" is becoming. Just how wide, consider this, Texas Governor Rick Perry made a quip about Texas re-establishing it's independence, he won by a landslide in his re-election bid and the subject of Texas indepence once relegated to a few "nut jobs" became a common and regular subject of conversation. Is there enough effort so far to actually see a break, probably not, but then I wouldn't bet anything on it either.

What these groups lack and what prevents them from being a real danger is the lack of coherent leadership with a widely accepted agenda. Without that leadership and plan, they are nothing but widely dispersed small groups that have a limited ability to cause real harm. The potential harm, at least economically, that these groups are currently capable of doing would not equal in a decade what enviro-terriost cost us in a year. Funny how the article doesn't bring those nut jobs up or the amount of damage they cause every year. But then again, I guess if you are supporting the Democrats, burning houses and apartments being build, destroying forestry equipment and throwing paint or blood on people wearing furs or leather is justifiable and not dangerous or damaging.
 
I'm not sure what the debate really is. Some people get together and call themselves a "militia." So what? We could call debatepolitics.com a "militia" and it wouldn't mean anything but a word. "Militia" as defined in the Constitution refers to independent volunteer military groups serving the government in time of war. Nothing else.

Gun clubs calling themselves "militias" has nothing to do with the Constitution. It's just a word.
 
and here we have the Libertarian version of the American War for Independence.

;)

Apparently, you do not know what sparked Lexington and Concord, and the very "shot heard 'round the world."
 
You're either being disingenuous or you need to study history a bit more. At least one of the earliest actual battles was fought because the British forces were moving to seize a militia armory and confiscate the weapons and powder stored there.

The war was not about gun control, but the oppressors' first overt move was an attempt to remove effective military arms from the citizenry.

It's what sparked the actual war, yes.
 
Hey man- my own views are those of the founding fathers. That puts me in pretty damn good company.

Not mention that if you were to classify the founders today, you'd put them in the libertarian camp, so the "libertarian version" of the Revolution is kind of a redundancy in terms.

(Unless you choose to look at it from the British point of view, of course.)
 
A militia does not have to be an arm of the government.
Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), stated:
Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right. What is more, in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention “the people,” the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset. This contrasts markedly with the phrase “the militia” in the prefatory clause. As we will describe below, the “militia” in colonial America consisted of a subset of “the people”— those who were male, able bodied, and within a certain age range. Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people”
n Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.
 
so, if a bunch of skinhead racists get together, arm themselves, and vow to fight for the freedom of white Americans, they too..are a subset of The Militia?

huh.....
 
so, if a bunch of skinhead racists get together, arm themselves, and vow to fight for the freedom of white Americans, they too..are a subset of The Militia?

huh.....

That's right, because Bubba and Timmy running around the woods in their little soldier outfits are JUST like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison! :2rofll:
 
so, if a bunch of skinhead racists get together, arm themselves, and vow to fight for the freedom of white Americans, they too..are a subset of The Militia?

huh.....

in the SCOTUS opinion they should be organized. Skinhead racists are allowed to associate just as much as anyone else. Just because we don't approve of their agenda does not mean we should take their rights away. Only people who agree with you should be allowed free speech, the right to bear arms, religious freedoms, the right to vote and the right to associate / assemble? What if you are wrong, what if you can be persuaded? For example: the abortion issue. It seems to be coming to a point where someone is going to have to make a nasty decision and pretty much half the people are going to be upset. I see very good points being made on both sides of the argument and I see people being persuaded into changing parts of their beliefs. Now, I 'm not saying racists are right, but in order for us to be able to claim that we are right, we have to allow everyone to be right.
 
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