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Another School Shooting

Krhazy said:
I haven't read through the whole thread. Do we know where this kid got the gun? Was it his parents'?
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Couldn't tell you. The news stated his family has a violent history, he was a loner, and targets were picked at random but haven't heard anything about how he obtained the weapon.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Couldn't tell you. The news stated his family has a violent history, he was a loner, and targets were picked at random but haven't heard anything about how he obtained the weapon.
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I really haven't seen much on the news about it at all. There were pix of a couple of the kids he shot, and they looked like your average white-bread plain goofball kids to me. I'm surprised we aren't hearing more details about it.
 
lizzie said:
I really haven't seen much on the news about it at all. There were pix of a couple of the kids he shot, and they looked like your average white-bread plain goofball kids to me. I'm surprised we aren't hearing more details about it.
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Yeah. There may not be much coming out of the shooter right now, he could be refusing to cooperate on things like how he got the weapon. Apparently there was no solid reason he picked the targets, but it is known that there were signs he was at least thinking about violence, I can't believe in this day and age a counselor wasn't alerted so as to be able to talk to him.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Before it became a PC problem, and actually just before my time in grade school coaches who witnessed a fight took the two to the gym, put them in boxing gloves, refereed the fight and insisted on a handshake when they were done. From what I understand old enemies more times than not became close friends under those corrective measures.
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I agree-I was the new kid at a cliquish private school and had the misfortune to come from the other prep school which was girls after 6th grade. but my class was the first coed one at that school in 7th grade but I transferred to the other school's all boys upper school and unlike guys ahead of me-I didn't have any other boys go with me-they stayed at the old school or went on to public schools. So from day one of my 7th grade year I was ridiculed by some (it didn't help that my old grade school had beaten these guys in football the year before) Plus I was slightly built with thick glasses. Fortunately my dad had been the Navy boxing champion and a golden gloves finalist. well one day one of the second string bullies picked a fight with me in the woodshop class run by the wrestling coach who was a fair man and didn't like seeing a kid picked on.


so he took us both to the nearby matt. he noted that the other kid started it and I had the choice of boxing or wrestling The other kid outweighed me by 30 pounds. So I said boxing

I nailed the kid with three quick jabs. The kid got mad and charged me and I caught him with an elbow under the eye. the coach grabbed him and tossed him into the corner and then told me to help the kid up and shake his hand (after the bag gloves-we didn't have full gloves-game off) The kid's eye looked pretty bad but he wasn't about to piss of a 230 pound 6-2 wrestling coach. I never had a problem with that guy again and while he went to another school a couple years later we were pretty good friends after that.

I also didn't get into any more fights after that until the summer of my junior year and that was a graduating senior who was basically the class asshole. I was a blackbelt by then and I am glad I didn't really hurt him-we now face off in court where I have had about 11 cases with him (won 9, settled one, and one is in late stages of summary judgment motions). we never had a problem again after they unwired his jaw
 
I found this by googling a couple of minutes ago. It sounds like the kid came from a highly dysfunctional family.

US school shooting: Ohio shooter picked victims at random, prosecutor says - The Times of India

excerpt:
A picture began to emerge of a troubled boy who lived with his grandfather, his legal guardian, after his dad, who had a history of domestic violence and served time in prison, was warned by police to stay away.

Court records, pored over by the local media, showed both his father and mother had been charged with domestic violence against each other between 1995 and 1997.

The father was later charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after holding a woman's head under running water and bashing it into a wall, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported, citing court records.
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Court records, pored over by the local media, showed both his father and mother had been charged with domestic violence against each other between 1995 and 1997.

The father was later charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after holding a woman's head under running water and bashing it into a wall, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported, citing court records.

Yeah, his problem were likely caused by the right to own guns.
 
TurtleDude said:
I agree-I was the new kid at a cliquish private school and had the misfortune to come from the other prep school which was girls after 6th grade. but my class was the first coed one at that school in 7th grade but I transferred to the other school's all boys upper school and unlike guys ahead of me-I didn't have any other boys go with me-they stayed at the old school or went on to public schools. So from day one of my 7th grade year I was ridiculed by some (it didn't help that my old grade school had beaten these guys in football the year before) Plus I was slightly built with thick glasses. Fortunately my dad had been the Navy boxing champion and a golden gloves finalist. well one day one of the second string bullies picked a fight with me in the woodshop class run by the wrestling coach who was a fair man and didn't like seeing a kid picked on.


so he took us both to the nearby matt. he noted that the other kid started it and I had the choice of boxing or wrestling The other kid outweighed me by 30 pounds. So I said boxing

I nailed the kid with three quick jabs. The kid got mad and charged me and I caught him with an elbow under the eye. the coach grabbed him and tossed him into the corner and then told me to help the kid up and shake his hand (after the bag gloves-we didn't have full gloves-game off) The kid's eye looked pretty bad but he wasn't about to piss of a 230 pound 6-2 wrestling coach. I never had a problem with that guy again and while he went to another school a couple years later we were pretty good friends after that.

I also didn't get into any more fights after that until the summer of my junior year and that was a graduating senior who was basically the class asshole. I was a blackbelt by then and I am glad I didn't really hurt him-we now face off in court where I have had about 11 cases with him (won 9, settled one, and one is in late stages of summary judgment motions). we never had a problem again after they unwired his jaw
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It almost always seems to work out between guys after a fight. Whether I won or got my ass kicked I get along fine with everyone I ever threw with.
 
1Perry said:
Court records, pored over by the local media, showed both his father and mother had been charged with domestic violence against each other between 1995 and 1997.

The father was later charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after holding a woman's head under running water and bashing it into a wall, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported, citing court records.

Yeah, his problem were likely caused by the right to own guns.
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The father seems like a world class prick and the mom seems to be pure trash.
 
TurtleDude said:
maybe executing the parents would be the proper justice
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Possibly TD, they sure didn't give a great chance to their son. They should at least get beat the **** out of in general population for a couple of years.
 
lizzie said:
Banning guns in this country would make crime even worse than it already is. If we had a highly homogenous population with strongly shared values, you might have a point, but gun control in this country would be a huge mistake.
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CaveatEmptor said:
Crime would only increase if you have yet another perpetual cycle involved in finding all firearms as "contraband". Law enforcement, in my mind, already has enough to handle and that they can't handle with the resources being devoted to discouraging certain non-violent activities or illegal substances that pose no harm unless misused, and that are often individualized in potential for harm.
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Goshin said:
This statement reveals such an utter and complete ignorance of the topic in question that to even respond would be preposterous. We'd have to spend days educating you on basic facts about US and guns before we could even begin to explain to you why you're so wrong.

I've done this a hundred times.... I'm not in the mood to play to utter ignorance tonight.
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LaMidRighter said:
I'm trying to figure out where this supposed "case" is to rest. And what foundation choice this alleged "case" rests on, I think it's somewhere between quicksand and tapioca pudding.
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At least I am not alone here.

Why America Needs to Ban Handguns

Obsessed with its search for "common sense" gun control and ever fearful of being perceived as radical, most of the American gun control movement has given up on trying to ban handguns. This has helped create the notion that support for a ban is absent or marginal. However, polling data taken over the past 20 years have consistently shown that more than 30 percent of the public favor a handgun ban with this support ranging at times between 40 percent and 45 percent (even hitting 50 percent in one 1999 poll).41 Nonetheless, many in the gun control movement insist on ignoring the existence of this significant bloc of American voters.
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VPC - Unsafe in Any Hands: Why America Needs to Ban Handguns
 
Goshin said:
They still did that once in a while when I was in school. Should have done it more often.

Young males need an outlet for their aggression, and a chance to respond to bullying and verbal abuse.
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You should wait and see what happens when us broads don't get a chance to get that aggression out. :nahnah:
 
Pinkie said:
I don't understand. In my day, the worst I worries about were knives. What happens to make a HS student into a mass murderer?
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In every other case, some form of SSRI type drug was being prescribed to the offender (except where military records were not made available.)

The comparison would be something between crystal meth and speed in terms of how it affects your brain.

Though, I'm not anything of an expert I got 25 cents that says he was on some sort of Ritalin or Prozac type of drug.
 
BmanMcfly said:
In every other case, some form of SSRI type drug was being prescribed to the offender (except where military records were not made available.)

The comparison would be something between crystal meth and speed in terms of how it affects your brain.

Though, I'm not anything of an expert I got 25 cents that says he was on some sort of Ritalin or Prozac type of drug.
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Prior to the debut of Prozac in 1987 (the first SSRI) what caused mutli-victim shootings? I'm not saying this kid wasn't on anything, but you must have missed the point earlier that young folk have been committing mutli-victim shootings for as long as guns have been around. In the United States you can probably go back further if you have the right records but July 26, 1764 seems to be the outside limit on the internet.

(Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Uh-oh, better not count that one it had to do with the French and Indian War.) It just offends me when people assume "drugs" legal or not "make" people do something, it can influence yes.

Note the 2000's have seen a decline in school shootings since Columbine, and as pharmaceuticals have become more available.

Also according to wikipedia:
1992–1993 (44 Homicides and 55 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)

2000–2001 (19 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2001–2002 (4 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2002–2003 (14 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2003–2004 (29 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2004–2005 (20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2005–2006 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2006–2007 (38 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2007–2008 (3 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2008–2009 (10 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2009–2010 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)

Something I found that explains why kids can't even write an essay anymore.

Interesting: Checklist of Characteristics of Youth Who Have Caused School-Associated Violent Deaths
Checklist of Characteristics of Youth Who Have Caused School-Associated Violent Deaths - National School Safety Center
"The National School Safety Center, blah, blah, blah... While there is no foolproof system for identifying potentially dangerous students who may harm themselves and/or others, this checklist provides a starting point.

These characteristics should serve to alert school administrators, teachers and support staff to address needs of troubled students through meetings with parents, provision of school counseling, guidance and mentoring services, as well as referrals to appropriate community health/social services and law enforcement personnel. Further, such behavior should also provide an early warning signal that safe school plans and crisis prevention/intervention procedures must be in place to protect the health and safety of all school students and staff members so that schools remain safe havens for learning."

_______ Has a history of tantrums and uncontrollable angry outbursts.
_______ Characteristically resorts to name calling, cursing or abusive language.
_______ Habitually makes violent threats when angry.
_______ Has previously brought a weapon to school.
_______ Has a background of serious disciplinary problems at school and in the community.
_______ Has a background of drug, alcohol or other substance abuse or dependency.
_______ Is on the fringe of his/her peer group with few or no close friends.
_______ Is preoccupied with weapons, explosives or other incendiary devices.
_______ Has previously been truant, suspended or expelled from school.
_______ Displays cruelty to animals.
_______ Has little or no supervision and support from parents or a caring adult.
_______ Has witnessed or been a victim of abuse or neglect in the home.
_______ Has been bullied and/or bullies or intimidates peers or younger children.
_______ Tends to blame others for difficulties and problems s/he causes her/himself.
_______ Consistently prefers TV shows, movies or music expressing violent themes and acts.
_______ Prefers reading materials dealing with violent themes, rituals and abuse.
_______ Reflects anger, frustration and the dark side of life in school essays or writing projects.
_______ Is involved with a gang or an antisocial group on the fringe of peer acceptance.
_______ Is often depressed and/or has significant mood swings.
_______ Has threatened or attempted suicide.

While some of these are very serious, how many of these has the average teenager not expressed / dealt with at some point? Writing essays on the "dark side of life", truancy, little or no supervision, been bullied or has bullied (which one is it?), prefers TV shows, movies or music expressing violent themes and acts, is often depressed and/or has significant mood swings (aren't significant mood swings what make teens so precious?) this stuff describes lots and lots and lots of people I know.

I can't imagine why school administrators are confused. I am not insensitive to the situation, just incensed that there are so many fallacy's, if we want to stop school shootings try being nice to the kids.

:sigh:
 
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RDS said:
At least I am not alone here.

Why America Needs to Ban Handguns



VPC - Unsafe in Any Hands: Why America Needs to Ban Handguns
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Well, that settles it. An anti-gun think tank writes a biased piece based on actions they want. You've totally changed my mind, you're right I am now for scrapping 200+ years of liberty and freedom because of an outsider opinion and an anti-gun article. :roll:

Seriously though, this is now filed in the "We don't give a ****" catagory.
 
taxigirl said:
Prior to the debut of Prozac in 1987 (the first SSRI) what caused mutli-victim shootings? I'm not saying this kid wasn't on anything, but you must have missed the point earlier that young folk have been committing mutli-victim shootings for as long as guns have been around. In the United States you can probably go back further if you have the right records but July 26, 1764 seems to be the outside limit on the internet.

(Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Uh-oh, better not count that one it had to do with the French and Indian War.) It just offends me when people assume "drugs" legal or not "make" people do something, it can influence yes.

Note the 2000's have seen a decline in school shootings since Columbine, and as pharmaceuticals have become more available.

Also according to wikipedia:
1992–1993 (44 Homicides and 55 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)

2000–2001 (19 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2001–2002 (4 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2002–2003 (14 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2003–2004 (29 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2004–2005 (20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2005–2006 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2006–2007 (38 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2007–2008 (3 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2008–2009 (10 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
2009–2010 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)

Something I found that explains why kids can't even write an essay anymore.

Interesting: Checklist of Characteristics of Youth Who Have Caused School-Associated Violent Deaths
Checklist of Characteristics of Youth Who Have Caused School-Associated Violent Deaths - National School Safety Center
"The National School Safety Center, blah, blah, blah... While there is no foolproof system for identifying potentially dangerous students who may harm themselves and/or others, this checklist provides a starting point.

These characteristics should serve to alert school administrators, teachers and support staff to address needs of troubled students through meetings with parents, provision of school counseling, guidance and mentoring services, as well as referrals to appropriate community health/social services and law enforcement personnel. Further, such behavior should also provide an early warning signal that safe school plans and crisis prevention/intervention procedures must be in place to protect the health and safety of all school students and staff members so that schools remain safe havens for learning."

_______ Has a history of tantrums and uncontrollable angry outbursts.
_______ Characteristically resorts to name calling, cursing or abusive language.
_______ Habitually makes violent threats when angry.
_______ Has previously brought a weapon to school.
_______ Has a background of serious disciplinary problems at school and in the community.
_______ Has a background of drug, alcohol or other substance abuse or dependency.
_______ Is on the fringe of his/her peer group with few or no close friends.
_______ Is preoccupied with weapons, explosives or other incendiary devices.
_______ Has previously been truant, suspended or expelled from school.
_______ Displays cruelty to animals.
_______ Has little or no supervision and support from parents or a caring adult.
_______ Has witnessed or been a victim of abuse or neglect in the home.
_______ Has been bullied and/or bullies or intimidates peers or younger children.
_______ Tends to blame others for difficulties and problems s/he causes her/himself.
_______ Consistently prefers TV shows, movies or music expressing violent themes and acts.
_______ Prefers reading materials dealing with violent themes, rituals and abuse.
_______ Reflects anger, frustration and the dark side of life in school essays or writing projects.
_______ Is involved with a gang or an antisocial group on the fringe of peer acceptance.
_______ Is often depressed and/or has significant mood swings.
_______ Has threatened or attempted suicide.

While some of these are very serious, how many of these has the average teenager not expressed / dealt with at some point? Writing essays on the "dark side of life", truancy, little or no supervision, been bullied or has bullied (which one is it?), prefers TV shows, movies or music expressing violent themes and acts, is often depressed and/or has significant mood swings (aren't significant mood swings what make teens so precious?) this stuff describes lots and lots and lots of people I know.

I can't imagine why school administrators are confused. I am not insensitive to the situation, just incensed that there are so many fallacy's, if we want to stop school shootings try being nice to the kids.

:sigh:
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Let me clarify; I wasn't saying these drugs are CAUSING a person to go crazy and start shooting people at random... More that it's undoubtedly a mitigating factor that would take someone that THINKS about doing this and removes the barrier that would prevent a person from actually acting out on those thoughts.

I'm pretty sure that even the drug inserts on these drugs discuss psychotic efforts and suicide as "side effects".

I don't have the numbers, but I'd be interested in seeing the numbers to compare pre-SSRI drugs to after.
 
BmanMcfly said:
In every other case, some form of SSRI type drug was being prescribed to the offender (except where military records were not made available.)The comparison would be something between crystal meth and speed in terms of how it affects your brain.Though, I'm not anything of an expert I got 25 cents that says he was on some sort of Ritalin or Prozac type of drug.
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He may have been, but my wager is on the fact that he came from screwed-up parents and had a screwed-up life. Any form of excess in child-rearing will contribute to raising a maladaptive child. If you are violent and beat them, they will be screwed up. If you coddle and baby them, they will be screwed up. Alot of people can't take the middle road and do what's best for the child, which is to disclipine them with love, doing what the child needs in order to be a healthy functioning member of society.
 
SLAMRAAM said:
We need less gun control in schools - it should be legal for every kid to take a gun to school - if we did this, then the random nutcases like this guy would think twice about pulling a gun on someone -
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Saddly he was right because if we listened to Archie, 911 could have been avoided.
 
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A armed society is polite society.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk
 
RDS said:
At least I am not alone here.

Why America Needs to Ban Handguns



VPC - Unsafe in Any Hands: Why America Needs to Ban Handguns
Click to expand...



You're more alone than you think.


October 26, 2011
Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban
Support for stricter gun laws in general is lowest Gallup has measured
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Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban


Even if it were a majority, in the US Constitution it takes a 2/3rds majority of states to change the Constitution, which is what it would take to properly enact a handgun ban.

So solly, not happening any time this century.
 
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