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Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

UtahBill said:
1 Corinthians 15:29 is, IIRC, the only source in the NT that refers to this...
so it isn't exactly a new concept, in case anyone was thinking that.

as for purgatory, or spirit world, I don't know of any NT reference to either.
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That in my understanding is that in the NT under Romans 10:9-10 purgatory is no longer an option as Jesus died for your sins.


j-mac
 
taxigirl said:
"They" the people who oppress and push their beliefs on others, take away rights, take away your spirit and maybe your life.
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You can't take away someone's spirit/soul.

Also, sounds like "they" are very much in line with militant atheist states and Islamic theocracies (you can even read recent reports about the Iranian government taking away someone's rights and life over their Christian faith).
 
digsbe said:
Not all Christians believe in purgatory or a medium spiritual world. My beliefs that are after death judgement follows with heaven or hell being the result. Me, my family, nor anyone in my church or parent's denominatino believe in purgatory or that we can pray for the dead.
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.. I stand corrected... i seem to have shanked that one.. :golf
 
j-mac said:
So your outrage is selective here...Got it...


Don't try and confuse the issue...Are you trying to imply here that you think that the administration imposing the coverage of BC on the Church as a mandate is wrong? I don't understand what the Mormon church is doing by doing this, but in the end do we really know enough about who within the LDS reasons are for this?

See, I think you brought it up as an attack against Romney to tie him to this type of stuff in order to smear him in a bigoted way that really has no place in politics today unless you are willing to have the Rev Wright debate brought up. So, I'd tread lightly if I were you.


j-mac
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When did I say anything about birth control or the presidential campaign? My complaint is that someone, does not matter who it is, mormon, jehovah, protestant, islamic, wiccan, catholic, whatever is placing their beliefs on another person. It happens when people are alive, and now it apparently happens when they are dead and I find that disrespectful.
 
taxigirl said:
When did I say anything about birth control or the presidential campaign? My complaint is that someone, does not matter who it is, mormon, jehovah, protestant, islamic, wiccan, catholic, whatever is placing their beliefs on another person. It happens when people are alive, and now it apparently happens when they are dead and I find that disrespectful.
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Right. You find it disrespectful of her Jewish heritage, and belief, and that of Jews in general. Well, Christians find it disrespectful of liberals that are making their BC arguments against the beliefs of the Catholic Church, which is (now pay attention here) why I brought it up.


j-mac
 
Thrilla said:
i'm still not sure about your personal religious preference.... and i'm a bit puzzled as to where you gained the beliefs that the dead cannot "stand' for themselves.
as far as i'm aware, every Christian denomination believes in life after death... the spirit lives on.

every Christianity denomination .. (and i believe, Judaism) , belief in some sort of intermediate state where after-death purification can take place (Mormons call it the "spirit world" some call it "purgatory").... i mean, it's the entire basis for praying for the dead
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Why do I need a preference and why are multiple people speaking as if judeo-christian beliefs are the only ones out there? It does not matter who presses their beliefs on you. If it is the basis for praying for the dead then why can't they just pray instead of performing a ceremony for someone who does not agree with their beliefs -- it screams "I don't respect your faith"
 
j-mac said:
Right. You find it disrespectful of her Jewish heritage, and belief, and that of Jews in general. Well, Christians find it disrespectful of liberals that are making their BC arguments against the beliefs of the Catholic Church, which is (now pay attention here) why I brought it up.
j-mac
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:eek:t

This has nothing to do with BC. This is about respecting fundamental beliefs about life, involving morals, life and death, who walks with you when you are in pain, what happens after life, why are we here. If you want to talk about BC I suggest you go to the appropriate thread.
 
taxigirl said:
Why do I need a preference and why are multiple people speaking as if judeo-christian beliefs are the only ones out there? It does not matter who presses their beliefs on you. If it is the basis for praying for the dead then why can't they just pray instead of performing a ceremony for someone who does not agree with their beliefs -- it screams "I don't respect your faith"
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you don't need a preference and judeo-christian beliefs aren't the only one out there.... but they are, nonetheless, out there.

I don't really get the feeling this conversation is going anywhere.... like i said before, if you want to be offended by this, there is nothing anyone else can do to change that.... it seem you really really want to believe that this is disrespectful and arrogant... and i'm perfectly fine with you believing that.
 
Thrilla said:
you don't need a preference and judeo-christian beliefs aren't the only one out there.... but they are, nonetheless, out there.

I don't really get the feeling this conversation is going anywhere.... like i said before, if you want to be offended by this, there is nothing anyone else can do to change that.... it seem you really really want to believe that this is disrespectful and arrogant... and i'm perfectly fine with you believing that.
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I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?
 
taxigirl said:
I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?
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I agree with you on the position that what the Mormons did was offensive towards the family. Although I do not believe we can force our beliefs upon a dead person. They are dead and cannot hold those beliefs. I also don't believe in any kind of spiritual validity behind post-humus baptisms.
 
taxigirl said:
I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?
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you are not alone in finding this offensive.. there are others who share your belief.

I would be pissed if someone baptized me while I was alive without my permission...I think,
however, as i've stated numerous times, the Mormons believe the dead have a choice of whether to accept or reject the ordinance. .. if you keep choosing to ignore that, then there is nothing more i can say on the matter.
 
taxigirl said:
I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?
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depends on how long they hold me under.....

the religious right wing types of the GOP are pushing their beliefs on the Amerian public pretty much as often as they can, and we better hope that none of them ever get what they want. Their is intolerance in the churches of all the faiths, and so far we are lucky to have so many religions who are sparring among themselves, competing for our souls and money.
God help us if any one of them gain the upper hand in congress....
 
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UtahBill said:
depends on how long they hold me under.....

the religious right wing types of the GOP are pushing their beliefs on the Amerian public pretty much as often as they can, and we better hope that none of them ever get what they want. Their is intolerance in the churches of all the faiths, and so far we are lucky to have so many religions who are sparring among themselves, competing for our souls and money.
God help us if any one of them gain the upper hand in congress....
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Good GAWD! I think I just woke up in Blotto World.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Good GAWD! I think I just woke up in Blotto World.


j-mac
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Yeah, you definitely did.

"I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state are absolute," he told 'This Week' host George Stephanopoulos. "The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country...to say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes me want to throw up."

~ Rick Santorum
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