ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

haymarket · Feb 25, 2012

Meathead said:
You probably think that everyone who smokes pot gets busted every time they do.

Irrelevant. You claim a problem. You propose a solution to the problem.

What was skipped is quantifying the problem.

Go back and try again with that part of it.

MaggieD · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
It is even more puny given the actual number of voters over that same time period.

And I am still looking for an exact figure of how many people have been convicted of voter fraud over the last decade - let us say since the 2000 election cycle.

What are you so afraid of, Haymarket? Surely you have an I.D...

haymarket · Feb 25, 2012

MaggieD said:
What are you so afraid of, Haymarket? Surely you have an I.D...

Call me old fashioned Maggie. You tell me there is a problem - I want to see that such a problem exists.

Even on Sawyers list, lots of it was NOT for voter fraud at all.

Meathead · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
Irrelevant. You claim a problem. You propose a solution to the problem.

What was skipped is quantifying the problem.

Go back and try again with that part of it.

The solution to the problem is clear and clearly suggested. What's the problem?

Khayembii Communique · Feb 25, 2012

Fletch said:
They have two years between elections to get that fixed. The only reason I can see to oppose needing a picture ID to vote is because you want to make it possible for someone to vote for someone else--voter fraud.

Really, that's the only reason you can see? :roll:

MaggyD said:
What are you so afraid of, Haymarket? Surely you have an I.D...

The only people that are opposed to the government monitoring your every movement are those that have something to hide!

haymarket · Feb 25, 2012

Meathead said:
The solution to the problem is clear and clearly suggested. What's the problem?

the issue is that your side has FAILED to demonstrate that a significant problems exists in the first place.

I ask again, how many people have been convicted of voter fraud since starting with the 2000 election cycle?

Fletch · Feb 25, 2012

Khayembii Communique said:
Really, that's the only reason you can see? :roll:

Yes. What other reason is there?

Fletch · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
the issue is that your side has FAILED to demonstrate that a significant problems exists in the first place.

I ask again, how many people have been convicted of voter fraud since starting with the 2000 election cycle?

There is no way to know how big the problem is. But the fact that I can vote under someone elses name, is what should be addressed. Being able to prove that you are who you say you are at a polling station seems to be a minimum standard.

taxigirl · Feb 25, 2012

Harshaw said:
Yeah, sawyer, but other than that, how many?

Good Socratic method. We got us some learn'n going on in here folks. Lookout, some
Of them big werds are a comming this way.

arty

Khayembii Communique · Feb 25, 2012

Fletch said:
Really, that's the only reason you can see?
Yes. What other reason is there?

It is a violation of one's constitutional rights and the Voting Rights Act to prohibit a citizen from voting.

haymarket · Feb 25, 2012

Fletch said:
There is no way to know how big the problem is. But the fact that I can vote under someone elses name, is what should be addressed. Being able to prove that you are who you say you are at a polling station seems to be a minimum standard.

Yes there is. You provide the statistics asked for.

MaggieD · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
Call me old fashioned Maggie. You tell me there is a problem - I want to see that such a problem exists.

Even on Sawyers list, lots of it was NOT for voter fraud at all.

No...what are you afraid will happen if people are actually *gasp* required to show identification before voting?

Meathead · Feb 25, 2012

Khayembii Communique said:
It is a violation of one's constitutional rights and the Voting Rights Act to prohibit a citizen from voting.

No one is being prohibited from voting outside of the consitutional framework.

MaggieD · Feb 25, 2012

Khayembii Communique said:
It is a violation of one's constitutional rights and the Voting Rights Act to prohibit a citizen from voting.

We prevent citizens from voting all the time. There are restrictions, after all. What constitutional right do I have to vote without proving that I'm eligible? Please post wording. Same with Voting Rights Act.

Chiefgator · Feb 25, 2012

Khayembii Communique said:
It is a violation of one's constitutional rights and the Voting Rights Act to prohibit a citizen from voting.

So, if you fail to register prior to the deadline, and you are turned away from the polling booth, your Constitutional rights have been violated.... Registration is an acceptable minimum standard and yet showing a picture ID is unacceptable?

Meathead · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
the issue is that your side has FAILED to demonstrate that a significant problems exists in the first place.

I ask again, how many people have been convicted of voter fraud since starting with the 2000 election cycle?

See posts 68 & 69. You can extrapolate voter fraud from that total by multiplying by X which equals the likelihood of being caught without identification needed which is probably far over 1 in a thousand and thus enough to turn a close national election around, let alone state and local.

taxigirl · Feb 25, 2012

Khayembii Communique said:
Really, that's the only reason you can see? :roll:

The only people that are opposed to the government monitoring your every movement are those that have something to hide!

I hate that cliche. Call me what you will but no one deserves even the basic info on me unless I say they do.

1Perry · Feb 25, 2012

I don't have time to read all the replies so I'm just going to state my opinion which might be repetitive.

Generally I do not see anyone suggesting that anyone has to buy a voter I.D. That isn't done because the courts would boot any such law
so the ACLU really has no arguement here.

Now, you have register and get a voters registration card anyway. I don't understand what the problem is in getting a picture I.D. (which you do not have to pay for) as opposed to a simple registration card. How we would do this retroactively would have to be discussed, but any new registrations would be picture I.D.s.

For those who drive, when you get your D.L. renewed, you then also get voter I.D. Perhaps it could even be a part of the D.L. Just like they note now that you are a donor, they could note that you are a registered voter.

Dittohead not! · Feb 25, 2012

Let's see... when was the last time I had to show picture ID?
Was it when I used a credit card at WalMart? or, maybe when I entered a national park with my seasoned citizen pass? Perhaps it was last time I ordered a beer? No, that hasn't happened in more than forty years now, so that's not it. I don't generally cash checks at grocery stores any more, so that isn't it. No, it was either the national park or WalMart. Gosh, I felt so disenfranchised having to get out my picture ID.

Now, when I vote, I won't need it, so how many times can I vote?

AdamT · Feb 25, 2012

1Perry said:
I don't have time to read all the replies so I'm just going to state my opinion which might be repetitive.

Generally I do not see anyone suggesting that anyone has to buy a voter I.D. That isn't done because the courts would boot any such law
so the ACLU really has no arguement here.

Now, you have register and get a voters registration card anyway. I don't understand what the problem is in getting a picture I.D. (which you do not have to pay for) as opposed to a simple registration card. How we would do this retroactively would have to be discussed, but any new registrations would be picture I.D.s.

For those who drive, when you get your D.L. renewed, you then also get voter I.D. Perhaps it could even be a part of the D.L. Just like they note now that you are a donor, they could note that you are a registered voter.

Why is it that these laws are universally (or nearly so) pushed for by Republicans, when there is absolutely no indication of a voter fraud problem in this country? Georgia passed one of these laws when its former Secretary of State could not recount a single example of voter impersonation during his time in office. Not one incident, but there were 650,000 registered voters who did not have photo IDs. What's the cost to the state of providing those 650,000 IDs? How many millions of hours were wasted providing them? And even then, how many people were denied their chance to vote because they weren't aware of the new law, or becaue they couldn't find, or afford to obtain the documents necessary to obtain the photo ID? And for what? Zero examples of fraud.

The painfully obvious purpose of these laws is to reduce Democratic voter participation and that is just a fact.

Meathead · Feb 25, 2012

AdamT said:
Why is it that these laws are universally (or nearly so) pushed for by Republicans, when there is absolutely no indication of a voter fraud problem in this country? Georgia passed one of these laws when its former Secretary of State could not recount a single example of voter impersonation during his time in office. Not one incident, but there were 650,000 registered voters who did not have photo IDs. What's the cost to the state of providing those 650,000 IDs? How many millions of hours were wasted providing them? And even then, how many people were denied their chance to vote because they weren't aware of the new law, or becaue they couldn't find, or afford to obtain the documents necessary to obtain the photo ID? And for what? Zero examples of fraud.

The painfully obvious purpose of these laws is to reduce Democratic voter participation and that is just a fact.

Georgia vote fraud - Ballotpedia

That took about a millionth of a second. What the hell are you talking about?

haymarket · Feb 25, 2012

Meathead said:
See posts 68 & 69. You can extrapolate voter fraud from that total by multiplying by X which equals the likelihood of being caught without identification needed which is probably far over 1 in a thousand and thus enough to turn a close national election around, let alone state and local.

That loud and irritating BBBBBZZZZZZTTTTTTT going off is the buzzer indicting that you just committed a serious debate foul. You cannot extrapolate anything regarding voter fraud convictions and claim it as evidence. You have to prove it with data.

Although you did use of of my favorite words and I thank you for that.

Meathead · Feb 25, 2012

haymarket said:
That loud and irritating BBBBBZZZZZZTTTTTTT going off is the buzzer indicting that you just committed a serious debate foul. You cannot extrapolate anything regarding voter fraud convictions and claim it as evidence. You have to prove it with data.

Although you did use of of my favorite words and I thank you for that.

Mods, I don't care if you zap me or flag me, but sorry Hazelmarket, you are a ditz. I've rarely seen a lamer argument.

MKULTRABOY · Feb 25, 2012

Hey.... maybe you should all read the article in the OP....

just sayin.

MKULTRABOY · Feb 25, 2012

Murphy warns the new laws disenfranchise voters like 84-year-old Ruthelle Frank, a plantif in an ACLU lawsuit against the state of Wisconsin. Frank, who has voted in every election since 1948, alleges the state violated her constitutional right to vote by requiring her to show a photo ID.

Frank does not have a government-issued ID or a birth certificate because she was born at home in the 1920s and acquiring the necessary paperwork to obtain an ID could cost her $200.

"While in some states the voter ID is provided free of charge, the supporting documents, the birth certificates, the marriage certificates, the passport can add up to significant costs, especially for low income people," Murphy says.

The law curiously enough affects the poor exclusively. Class voter suppression. :shrug:

Next order of business please.

ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

master political analyst