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Father says son who took gun to school 'made a bad mistake'

anarchomoney said:
Hitler and Stalin got tough on guns after they got in power. You're in good company. Surely the prohibition of alcohol worked. In fact it really made the mob a lot of money. Is the war on drugs working?
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Thanks for playing REALLY BAD ANALOGY In your case analogies. But hey, you're a Libercontrarian.. Go figure.

Shall I list countries with stricter gun control laws that have a lower rate of murders? No of course you wouldn't want to go there.
 
Top Cat said:
Thanks for playing REALLY BAD ANALOGY In your case analogies. But hey, you're a Libercontrarian.. Go figure.

Shall I list countries with stricter gun control laws that have a lower rate of murders? No of course you wouldn't want to go there.
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It's like in Singapore where they outlaw chewing gum. But there's no black market in chewing gum. Why? because most people there don't care for chewing gum. Same with guns and "countries with stricter gun laws"
 
Top Cat said:
Thanks for playing REALLY BAD ANALOGY In your case analogies. But hey, you're a Libercontrarian.. Go figure.

Shall I list countries with stricter gun control laws that have a lower rate of murders? No of course you wouldn't want to go there.
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If statistics show us anything it's that there is no obvious correlation between gun control and murder rate. The real driving factors behind crime and violence are socioeconomic in nature; culture, poverty level, etc. The fact remains that bans don't work, except in the minds of the naive.
 
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theangryamerican said:
If statistics show us anything it's that there is no obvious correlation between gun control and murder rate. The real driving factors behind crime and violane are socioeconomic in nature; culture, poverty level, etc. The fact remains that bans don't work, except in the minds of the naive.
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Bad parenting. Child abuse. Spanking. Exposure to traumatic effects in early life.
 
theangryamerican said:
It would only be a valid point if the scenario that Thunder gave bore any real resemblance to what actually happened. As it stands, he’s just trying to make anyone without a trigger lock look like an accident waiting to happen.

Maggie, my contention here is not whether or not the boy deserves jail, it’s that people seem to think that passing additional laws will somehow make criminals more law abiding. As far as the gun going off in a backpack, it does depend on the actual type of gun, but generally speaking you don’t throw a gun into a bag with a bunch of other stuff without ensuring that the trigger is covered. Even if the gun has a safety that can be engaged, a loose gun is begging something to get inside the trigger guard and safeties can be knocked off. This is the reason that it’s generally not a good idea for a woman to carry in a purse either.
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I completely agree with you that "more laws" won't solve these kinds of problems. Non-crackhead parents would go a long way, though. ;)

LaMidRighter said:
It's not the gun, it's the parent. I grew up in an armed household and the guns were semi-secured but I was taught from an early age that guns are not toys, you don't handle it unless you need to use it or clean it, you don't point at anything you don't want to shoot, they should always be treated as loaded, they are a great responsibility and you can't unkill something.
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Totally agree. My family in coal-country Kentucky keeps loaded guns all over the house...a loaded shotgun propped up at both doors. The kids? Not only were they taught never-ever-ever!!! to touch one when they were lil' ones, but by the time they were 9 years-old, they were shooting them safely and skillfully. That isn't the case here, of course. Crack-head mom belongs in jail.
 
Top Cat said:
You gotta ****tin me? She leaves a loaded gun where a child can get to it and she shouldn't be held liable?

WTF?
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Not legally. She didn't shoot anyone. She can be fiscally liable as I have already stated (thus meaning that I did not claim that she shouldn't be held liable).
 
Top Cat said:
Read more here: Prosecutor: Look at adults in WA school shooting - Wire - State & Regional - bellinghamherald.com
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From your link:

While charges have been filed against the boy, the child will not be arraigned until the court determines whether he has the capacity to understand that what he did was wrong.

Read more here: Prosecutor: Look at adults in WA school shooting - Wire - State & Regional - bellinghamherald.com
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Very sad. The only thing this boy did wrong was to bring a gun to school. If his mother has custody, she should lose it and only be allowed supervised visits. Just a tragedy...
 
Ikari said:
Not legally. She didn't shoot anyone. She can be fiscally liable as I have already stated (thus meaning that I did not claim that she shouldn't be held liable).
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There are other things such as contributing to the delinquincy of a minor - and so on . . . whenever a parent is the reason why a child was able to commit harm or a vile act they get scrutinized and potentially ruled against as a cohort.

I am a little bit bothered by people minimizing his actions.
He brought a gun . . . why?
Was he planning on harming someone? He's not stupid - I'm sure he knew what it was and what it's designed to do. All kids are aware of the purpose of a gun.

9 years old is old eough to know better. Just because his mother was a filthy lech doesn't mean this boy has been raised in abject squallor with no sense at all.
 
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theangryamerican said:
If statistics show us anything it's that there is no obvious correlation between gun control and murder rate. The real driving factors behind crime and violence are socioeconomic in nature; culture, poverty level, etc. The fact remains that bans don't work, except in the minds of the naive.
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Sincerely,

Charlton Heston
 
Aunt Spiker said:
There are other things such as contributing to the delinquincy of a minor - and so on . . . whenever a parent is the reason why a child was able to commit harm or a vile act they get scrutinized and potentially ruled against as a cohort.
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Blah blah blah. Kid took the gun. Less you can demonstrate that she gave the kid the gun, knew he was taking it to school, etc. than there is no reason to hold her legally responsible.
 
Ikari said:
Blah blah blah. Kid took the gun. Less you can demonstrate that she gave the kid the gun, knew he was taking it to school, etc. than there is no reason to hold her legally responsible.
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The mother's actions directly enabled the child's actions and the related injury.

And she shouldn't be punished?

Nevermind that she'll never learn and grow up - if she doesn't face harsh punishment now what will happen next? A murder? A kid bringing her drugs to school and then we'll hear about kids dying of cocaine use in the bathroom . . . at some point peopel who prove they're incapable of not ruining the lives and health of others must be dealt with and accept the consequences of their thoughtlessness, carelessness and complete lack of concern and awareness.

Your logic fails miserably to coincide with reality, accountability and reason.

Thankfully this child will recover - but what if she didn't? if the mother's irresponsible parenting led to the death of another child you'd still hold this view?
 
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Ikari said:
Not legally. She didn't shoot anyone. She can be fiscally liable as I have already stated (thus meaning that I did not claim that she shouldn't be held liable).
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You claim she shouldn't be held responsible for his actions. Which is insane since had she not left an illegal loaded 45 where a child could get to it this would never have happened.

You seriously can't connect the dots there?

Wow, just wow.
 
Top Cat said:
Sincerely,

Charlton Heston
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Funny. Do you always wear the Partisan Blinders for the duration of your comedy routine?

If you'd like to debate what I posted in an intelligent fashion, I'd be glad to show you the error of your ways.
 
theangryamerican said:
Funny. Do you always wear the Partisan Blinders for the duration of your comedy routine?

If you'd like to debate what I posted in an intelligent fashion, I'd be glad to show you the error of your ways.
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First of all, to suggest that common sense gun laws don't work is at the heart of the NRA argument. There is no rational way to discuss even the simplest of regulations with anyone toeing the NRA line. So spare me. I have danced this dance too many times.

Here's a simple example. Why not simply require a safety training class before issuing a license for a firearm? We test people for cars, certainly a gun is as lethal of more so than an automoble (cue up the, but, but, but a gun is a right comeback).

But no, NRA fans throw the 2nd Amendment out, get all butt hurt and whine doing so means the government is taking our guns away. You can't argue with irrational people.
 
Top Cat said:
First of all, to suggest that common sense gun laws don't work is at the heart of the NRA argument. There is no rational way to discuss even the simplest of regulations with anyone toeing the NRA line. So spare me. I have danced this dance too many times.
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I'm not an NRA member. The NRA wants a lot more than mere freedom to own a gun. They want everyone to own a gun. Is that right? no. but it's the power to be had because you have a government that CAN make it a reality. That's a great argument against a government, period.

Here's a simple example. Why not simply require a safety training class before issuing a license for a firearm? We test people for cars, certainly a gun is as lethal of more so than an automoble (cue up the, but, but, but a gun is a right comeback).

But no, NRA fans throw the 2nd Amendment out, get all butt hurt and whine doing so means the government is taking our guns away. You can't argue with irrational people.
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I'm not in favor of licensing system for drivers. I don't even own a gun. I don't do drugs, but everyone has the right to do what they will with their own bodies.
 
Top Cat said:
First of all, to suggest that common sense gun laws don't work is at the heart of the NRA argument. There is no rational way to discuss even the simplest of regulations with anyone toeing the NRA line. So spare me. I have danced this dance too many times.
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I’m not NRA and I’ve never given a dime to the NRA, so knock off the BS. The problem with your idea of gun laws is that there’s no common sense involved, and you refuse to listen to why your latest idea won’t work when it’s politely debunked.

Top Cat said:
Here's a simple example. Why not simply require a safety training class before issuing a license for a firearm? We test people for cars, certainly a gun is as lethal of more so than an automoble (cue up the, but, but, but a gun is a right comeback).
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A gun is more dangerous than an automobile?! Did you really take a minute to think that through before you wrote it? Let me quickly clue you in: It's estimated that there are more privately owned guns than there are cars in this country, yet which do you think kills more people each day?

Top Cat said:
But no, NRA fans throw the 2nd Amendment out, get all butt hurt and whine doing so means the government is taking our guns away.
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…again, not NRA. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I’ll say it again; there is no correlation between gun control and crime rate. There are other countries with strict gun laws and low crime rates and there are countries with lax gun laws and high crime rates.

Conversely, there are countries that heavily regulate firearms, yet have very high crime rates and there are countries with lenient gun laws with virtually no crime. How do you account for this, if you believe that gun laws have a direct (or any effect) on violent crime?

Top Cat said:
You can't argue with irrational people.
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Yet, here I am, trying to do exactly that. *sigh*
 
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LaMidRighter said:
It's not the gun, it's the parent. It's not the gun, it's the parent. I grew up in an armed household and the guns were semi-secured but I was taught from an early age that guns are not toys, you don't handle it unless you need to use it or clean it, you don't point at anything you don't want to shoot, they should always be treated as loaded, they are a great responsibility and you can't unkill something.
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It could also be the kid. Sometimes, even kids who have parents who teach them all this stuff bring loaded guns to schools or even kill people.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It could also be the kid. Sometimes, even kids who have parents who teach them all this stuff bring loaded guns to schools or even kill people.
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True, some kids grow up in good homes and just go wrong at some point, but when Mom is a convicted felon continuing to break the law, I think it's safe to apply Occam's Razor. :)
 
LaMidRighter said:
There are tons of stories about kids bringing guns to school, sometimes at younger ages than this child. In fact when my older cousins went to HS they attended with a bunch of people who kept shotguns in their trucks to go hunting after class. They don't allow it at that school anymore but that used to be a common sight.
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Tons of stories doesn't erase the fact that it isn't normal in a lot of places and probably not normal just in general, especially for a nine year old. My point is that we don't know what his intentions were and I'm not going to draw conclusions until I have more information. I don't see why anybody else would either. People are far too quick to draw the conclusions from stories that they want to be true. I'd rather wait for more information.
 
Haven't had a chance to do much digging...but do we even KNOW where he got the gun or what the circumstances are? Hell...why not....let's build the bonfire and tie bio-mom to a stake...but....before we strike the match...
 
theangryamerican said:
I’m not NRA and I’ve never given a dime to the NRA, so knock off the BS. The problem with your idea of gun laws is that there’s no common sense involved, and you refuse to listen to why your latest idea won’t work when it’s politely debunked.
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You keep claiming that you have debunked my contention that common sense laws are a bad idea. I'm still waiting.


A gun is more dangerous than an automobile?!
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I said lethal. Are you suggesting that a handgun is something other than lethal? I must have missed something. enlighten me as to the real reason hand guns were designed? I'll hold my breath.

Did you really take a minute to think that through before you wrote it?
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Did you really take a minute to digest my point. Honestly, heal thyself.


Conversely, there are countries that heavily regulate firearms, yet have very high crime rates and there are countries with lenient gun laws with virtually no crime. How do you account for this, if you believe that gun laws have a direct (or any effect) on violent crime?
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You show me where I claimed this. All I suggested was to require a simple safety class before issuing a permit. I never said anything about "controlling firearms or making them more difficult to obtain". If your idea of difficult to obtain is passing a simple safety test, well hell I guess I'm Hitler then.

would this safety course have prevented this tragedy? Probably not. Could it prevent others? In my opinion yes.

This is precisely what I mean. Gun nuts will not discuss this issue with any rational thought.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It could also be the kid. Sometimes, even kids who have parents who teach them all this stuff bring loaded guns to schools or even kill people.
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No argument here. There was a murder committed here about ten years ago involving a person who was always troubled and came from a great family. I would say that a majority of the time there is a parent problem though.
 
VanceMack said:
Haven't had a chance to do much digging...but do we even KNOW where he got the gun or what the circumstances are? Hell...why not....let's build the bonfire and tie bio-mom to a stake...but....before we strike the match...
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The statement in the press credited "To the authorities" suggest that he got it on a visit to his Mother's house. Take that as a paraphrase and with a grain of salt.
 
VanceMack said:
'Jail' (Juvenile Detention) may be the best thing for this kid considering his family circumstances. AT least in detention he would get mandated access to counseling and therapy.

From the story...

If the boy is found guilty of the charges, he could be ordered to spend up to 30 days in juvenile detention and 12 months on the juvenile version of probation and to perform 150 hours of community service.
A capacity hearing will be held in two weeks to determine if the charges will ultimately proceed. Under state law, children between 8 and 12 years old can face charges if a court determines the child has the capacity to understand an act is wrong."

His family history...

"When he was 2 ½, police found methamphetamine and syringes in his mother's belongings, court documents say. Later that same month, Chaffin was charged with forgery after trying to cash stolen checks. She was later convicted. When he was 3 ½, Chaffin was charged with selling marijuana out of a Kitsap motel. By this point, she had four children, according to court records. Meanwhile, Jason Cochran was convicted of domestic violence for assaulting Chaffin. He later violated the protection order. He repeatedly failed to pay child support and was held in contempt. Three or four years ago, they both relinquished their parental rights"

Tragic situation...
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Jail is never the right place for a kid purely because of having bad parents. If there is no alternative he needs to be in foster care if he cannot return to one of his parents and the grandparents/aunts/uncles are not able or willing to give the place a stable and loving home.
 
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