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US opens homeland airspace to use Drones

Chiefgator said:
So, you extrapolating out that a radio station using a UAV to report rush hour traffic will turn into a foreign government assassinating citizens...
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When you allow drones for US air space so they can spy on people you open the door for other infringements.
 
jamesrage said:
When you allow drones for US air space so they can spy on people you open the door for other infringements.
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You are letting the word Drone add an element of fear to the equation. This does not allow anyone or anything the ability to spy on anyone. All that this does is to allow for the airspace use by a remotely piloted vehicle. The prohibition against UAVs flying in metropolitan areas had nothing to do with security. It was just an FAA restriction for the safety of manned aircraft due to a collision hazard. If you want to discuss that, I am well versed in that area as well. The only hesitation that I have against this change of regulation is the safety factor of unmanned aircraft.

I am a libertarian and I do not want my civil liberties trod upon any more than you do. But in this case, there is no effect on anyone's liberties.
 
Chiefgator said:
You are letting the word Drone add an element of fear to the equation. This does not allow anyone or anything the ability to spy on anyone. All that this does is to allow for the airspace use by a remotely piloted vehicle. The prohibition against UAVs flying in metropolitan areas had nothing to do with security. It was just an FAA restriction for the safety of manned aircraft due to a collision hazard. If you want to discuss that, I am well versed in that area as well. The only hesitation that I have against this change of regulation is the safety factor of unmanned aircraft.

I am a libertarian and I do not want my civil liberties trod upon any more than you do. But in this case, there is no effect on anyone's liberties.
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As I understand it (and I may be wrong) the FAA does not regulate hobbyist use of UAVs flying under 400', but they are close to imposing massive regulations on commercial use of UAV's in the same airspace. What's up with that?
 
AdamT said:
As I understand it (and I may be wrong) the FAA does not regulate hobbyist use of UAVs flying under 400', but they are close to imposing massive regulations on commercial use of UAV's in the same airspace. What's up with that?
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I have no expertise in the Hobby side of things. My post above was poorly written in that it suggests that I am an expert in UAV airspace management. I am well versed in the Aircraft vs. UAV collision hazard. I know some people that I can ask tho. I will get back to you on that side of things.
 
AdamT said:
As I understand it (and I may be wrong) the FAA does not regulate hobbyist use of UAVs flying under 400', but they are close to imposing massive regulations on commercial use of UAV's in the same airspace. What's up with that?
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One thing I just noticed in this: The FAA Does in fact regulate hobbiest UAV flights below 400ft. They are restricted to certain areas... not within 3 miles of an airport without approval from said airport, must be outside of populated areas, must be aware of noise sensitive areas (schools, hospitals, etc).

But, the only thing I can think of (without digging into the FAA regs) would be consistency. The FAA regulates the heck outta commercial aviation and is much more lenient on private aviation.
 
StillBallin75 said:
We already have helicopters.
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Not a good example, you can hear and see a helicopter just fine. You know when a helicopter is above you, a drone, not so much. A drone is used for spying and taking down targets discretely. Putting drones into US airspace is like declaring a act of war on normal citizens as is many of todays laws that prohibit freedom. The judicial branch of our government has been an absolute failure to the United States for over 40 years now by not defending the constitution and making it work for the people.
 
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Justice For All said:
Read all about it -

U.S. opening up airspace to use of drones - Technology & science - Science - DiscoveryNews.com - msnbc.com

Well looks like another violation of our rights has come to pass. Between this and the Patriot Act I might as well just have the government set up video cameras in my house and backyard. This country continues to circle the drain each passing day. Are we people just going to keep taking the punishment?
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This will likely cause crashes of private aircraft.....
 
Justice For All said:
Not a good example, you can hear and see a helicopter just fine. You know when a helicopter is above you, a drone, not so much. A drone is used for spying and taking down targets discretely. Putting drones into US airspace is like declaring a act of war on normal citizens as is many of todays laws that prohibit freedom. The judicial branch of our government has been an absolute failure to the United States for over 40 years now by not defending the constitution and making it work for the people.
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I can promise you that I can see a whole lot more and have a much longer onstation time with my aircraft than any UAV that is approved for use over US airspace. My resolution is 5-10 times better. I have many different modes of operation that the small UAV cannot have due to weight. And trust me..... You would never I was there.

THAT is exactly why it is illegal in the US. This change of regulation does nothing to change the law.
 
It's not a problem letting UAVs hover around in US airspace, right NOW, at this moment.

All it takes, however, is Patriot Act 2 to pass, and voila, the individual building blocks being laid out all come together to make one solid structure.



No one bill can enact a police state...it happens slowly, over time. You can't just drop a frog in a pot of boiling water...it'll try to jump out. BUT, you put a frog in warm water, and then, over a period of time, heat it up...and it'll never know what hit it. And that's what's happening here.
 
Consitutionally the only right to privacy you have is behind closed doors, curtians drawn, and windows shut. But big brother has been watching for 100s of years. The only difference is technology makes it easier
 
Chiefgator said:
You are letting the word Drone add an element of fear to the equation. This does not allow anyone or anything the ability to spy on anyone.
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One of the main purposes of a drone is to attack,spy or both. They do not fly drones for the hell of it.

All that this does is to allow for the airspace use by a remotely piloted vehicle.
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Why do they want to allow the airspace for the use of these drones? To spy on people. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a mini remote controlled helicopter or air plane can be very efficient at spying due to the fact people are less likely to notice them verses a large UAV or even a helicopter.
 
xpiher said:
Consitutionally the only right to privacy you have is behind closed doors, curtians drawn, and windows shut. But big brother has been watching for 100s of years. The only difference is technology makes it easier
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You are sadly mistaken. It doesn't matter if its inside or outside your home.There is no "only applies on the inside of your home with the curtains closed" clause in the 4th amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
jamesrage said:
You are sadly mistaken. It doesn't matter if its inside or outside your home.There is no "only applies on the inside of your home with the curtains closed" clause in the 4th amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Sadly, I'm not mistaken. You only have a right to privacy where a reasonable expectation of privay exist. For instance, if a cop walks pass your house and sees you smoking pot inside your house they can arrest you.
 
xpiher said:
Sadly, I'm not mistaken. You only have a right to privacy where a reasonable expectation of privay exist. For instance, if a cop walks pass your house and sees you smoking pot inside your house they can arrest you.
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Again this is why the Judicial system has failed us, this is why the United States has the highest prison population on the planet even though most countries have 10-100 times more people in their populace. It's because we have way too many laws and acts on the books. Everytime a politician passes a law thats one less freedom you have. We have basic laws that keep order and laws of fairness and that's all you need. Now these people are just making laws up for the fun of it and each passing day they take more of our freedoms.
 
Justice For All said:
Again this is why the Judicial system has failed us, this is why the United States has the highest prison population on the planet even though most countries have 10-100 times more people in their populace. It's because we have way too many laws and acts on the books. Everytime a politician passes a law thats one less freedom you have. We have basic laws that keep order and laws of fairness and that's all you need. Now these people are just making laws up for the fun of it and each passing day they take more of our freedoms.
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I'm not disgareeing that the US is ridden with useless laws, I'm simply stating the proper rights of privacy we have. Even if all those useless laws were removed tomorrow, you'd still only have a limite right to privacy.
 
If the Patriot Act and this new Drone law were removed we'd have a hell of alot more freedom and privacy that's a fact.
 
Justice For All said:
If the Patriot Act and this new Drone law were removed we'd have a hell of alot more freedom and privacy that's a fact.
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Once again..... this is not a law. It is a change in a FAA regulation that allows unmanned aircraft to use more airspace. Your rights have not been affected.

Agree 100% with the Patriot Act, however.
 
Justice For All said:
If the Patriot Act and this new Drone law were removed we'd have a hell of alot more freedom and privacy that's a fact.
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No, you really wouldn't. You aren't entitled to your libray record being private. The reasons the PATACT is so bad is because it allows the US gov to spy on its own citizens without a warrent.
 
there is nothing wrong with retro-active warrants.

if an agency has a trend of doing searches that end up getting the warrants rejected, again and again...THEN we need to change something.

but until then, a 3-day window to get a retro warrant is fine by me, as long as terrorism against civilians is involved.
 
Justice For All said:
Again this is why the Judicial system has failed us, this is why the United States has the highest prison population on the planet even though most countries have 10-100 times more people in their populace. It's because we have way too many laws and acts on the books. Everytime a politician passes a law thats one less freedom you have. We have basic laws that keep order and laws of fairness and that's all you need. Now these people are just making laws up for the fun of it and each passing day they take more of our freedoms.
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I think this is due to the fact we have a very efficient law enforcement compared to other countries.
 
Chiefgator said:
I work in the airborne electronic surveillance field. All this is doing is changing from a manned platform to an unmanned platform. The surveillance is already there, this doesn't really change anything except to allow for unmanned vehicles to be in the airspace.

None of the laws changed that have an effect on right to privacy, search and seizure, search warrants, etc.
The restrictions placed on surveillance over US soil are very strict, as well they should be.
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Manned platforms can be seen, unmanned platforms can become small enough so they can't be seen. Any questions?
 
Chiefgator said:
Once again..... this is not a law. It is a change in a FAA regulation that allows unmanned aircraft to use more airspace. Your rights have not been affected.

Agree 100% with the Patriot Act, however.
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A manned platform can't hover in front of my windows without me knowing about it, a small UAS can.
 
American said:
A manned platform can't hover in front of my windows without me knowing about it, a small UAS can.
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If its viewable from your window you don't have an expectation of privarcy.
 
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