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Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death

Cephus said:
Seriously? The guy who opposes condoms in AIDS ridden Africa and who wrote the rules for hiding child-molesting priests?
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You forget the rules in this thread, jesus good, islam bad. You don't need to debate quote for quote. The Christian god is the only god.
 
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Cephus said:
Seriously? The guy who opposes condoms in AIDS ridden Africa and who wrote the rules for hiding child-molesting priests?
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Catholics are against contraception as a matter of principle. I don't see how that makes him a bad person.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Catholics are against contraception as a matter of principle. I don't see how that makes him a bad person.
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A belief in itself does not make someone a bad person, it is when they act on that belief in a wreckless and dangerous way that makes them bad people.

The simple fact is absetence only is just simply not reasonable in today's age. Blame it all on what you want, but unwanted pregnancies and STDs are something that need to be combated and contraception is the reasonable way.

Unless you are going to start forcing people into abstenence (good luck) contraceptions are the most reasonable way to combat these things in today's time.

I know many people that are turned off from Catholicism for the contraception reason. IMO, the whole reason Catholics have that in the religion is so that people will have babies and raise them as Catholics. It's a means to procreation for the religion.
 
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Peter Grimm said:
Catholics are against contraception as a matter of principle. I don't see how that makes him a bad person.
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Fine, just makes Catholicism a bad religion. How's that?
 
Cephus said:
Fine, just makes Catholicism a bad religion. How's that?
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That's your opinion. Catholics believe that sex should come after marriage. It would be unprincipled for the Catholic Church to hand out condoms in Africa or anywhere else, since condoms encourage and enable sex out of wedlock.
 
TheNextEra said:
A belief in itself does not make someone a bad person, it is when they act on that belief in a wreckless and dangerous way that makes them bad people.

The simple fact is absetence only is just simply not reasonable in today's age. Blame it all on what you want, but unwanted pregnancies and STDs are something that need to be combated and contraception is the reasonable way.

Unless you are going to start forcing people into abstenence (good luck) contraceptions are the most reasonable way to combat these things in today's time.

I know many people that are turned off from Catholicism for the contraception reason. IMO, the whole reason Catholics have that in the religion is so that people will have babies and raise them as Catholics. It's a means to procreation for the religion.
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The Catholic Church isn't stopping anyone else from handing out condoms in Africa.
 
Peter Grimm said:
That's your opinion. Catholics believe that sex should come after marriage. It would be unprincipled for the Catholic Church to hand out condoms in Africa or anywhere else, since condoms encourage and enable sex out of wedlock.
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You think married people don't use condoms? My wife and I did for years. Catholics are just unrealistic. People are going to have sex. In Africa, where AIDS is rampant, people are getting infected at an alarming rate, even married people, because they have no alternative.

But dealing with reality isn't something religion does well.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The Catholic Church isn't stopping anyone else from handing out condoms in Africa.
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but its stated opposition to such contraceptives prevents practicing catholics from using them
 
Cephus said:
You think married people don't use condoms? My wife and I did for years. Catholics are just unrealistic. People are going to have sex. In Africa, where AIDS is rampant, people are getting infected at an alarming rate, even married people, because they have no alternative.

But dealing with reality isn't something religion does well.
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Where are married people going to get AIDS from?

The Church's job is to teach people how to live a moral life. Whether people are strong enough to follow the Church's teachings is irrelevant. Sex should be limited to marriage.

I haven't followed that personally in my life, and I've used plenty of contraception. That doesn't mean it's right, it just means I'm not a perfect human being.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The Catholic Church isn't stopping anyone else from handing out condoms in Africa.
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No, but when they "convert" those Africans, those Africans are not able to use contraception. Their beleif turns to action and that is the problem.

I'm pretty sure the reason WHY the Catholic religion has no use of contraception in their religion as I stated earlier, that doesn't make it any less dangerous or wreckless when they apply it.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Where are married people going to get AIDS from?
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From a previous partner, needle transaction, etc.

Unless of course you live in the unrealistic world where everyone waits to have sex until their married and there are no drugs in the world. Is that the case?

Peter Grimm said:
Sex should be limited to marriage.
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That is yours and the Church's opinion, one that isn't shared with the majority of the world (at least applied I should say).

Myself and others live in the REAL world, where things have to be combated using REALISTIC means and contraception is one of them.
 
Peter Grimm said:
.... since condoms encourage and enable sex out of wedlock.
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Condoms do NOT encourage sex. People want to have sex and having a condom or not does stop them from wanting to have sex or even having it. As evidenced by the AIDS epidemic in Africa and the numerous teen pregnancies and STDs in America.

The belief that somehow having a packaged rubber balloon in your pocket ENCOURAGES people to have sex is ridiculous. The desire, will, and action is there without a piece of rubber.
 
TheNextEra said:
From a previous partner, needle transaction, etc.

Unless of course you live in the unrealistic world where everyone waits to have sex until their married and there are no drugs in the world. Is that the case?
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Sex is a choice. People can choose to wait until they are married.

The Church's job is to teach people to live a moral life. The fact that many people don't have the strength to do so doesn't change the Church's mission.

I have broken this rule myself and had sexual partners and I have used contraception. That doesn't mean the definition of morality changes. That just means I failed to live up to a higher standard.


TheNextEra said:
That is yours and the Church's opinion, one that isn't shared with the majority of the world (at least applied I should say).

Myself and others live in the REAL world, where things have to be combated using REALISTIC means and contraception is one of them.
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You're asking the Church to enable sin.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Maybe Catholics shouldn't be using them.
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says the same person who also insists that
The Catholic Church isn't stopping anyone else from handing out condoms in Africa.
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you want it both ways. doesn't work. the catholic church is simply backwards. a bunch of men who have vowed celibacy telling others how to lead their sex lives
 
TheNextEra said:
Condoms do NOT encourage sex. People want to have sex and having a condom or not does stop them from wanting to have sex or even having it. As evidenced by the AIDS epidemic in Africa and the numerous teen pregnancies and STDs in America.

The belief that somehow having a packaged rubber balloon in your pocket ENCOURAGES people to have sex is ridiculous. The desire, will, and action is there without a piece of rubber.
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It enables sex.

You ever taken a girl back to her place, she asks you "do you have a condom" and you're like "****!!" and then you get none?

It's happened to me.
 
justabubba said:
says the same person who also insists that

you want it both ways. doesn't work. the catholic church is simply backwards. a bunch of men who have vowed celibacy telling others how to lead their sex lives
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The Church exists to teach morality. It shouldn't lower the bar just because few people can reach it.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It enables sex.

You ever taken a girl back to her place, she asks you "do you have a condom" and you're like "****!!" and then you get none?

It's happened to me.
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Take a look at the STDs and pregnancies in America, that ain't the norm.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It is the norm among educated people.
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Sorry, but education has nothing to do with it. But please continue to live in fantasy land.

Like I said, people like myself and others would prefer to live in reality and actually help people instead of look down on them as you do.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry, but education has nothing to do with it. But please continue to live in fantasy land.

Like I said, people like myself and others would prefer to live in reality and actually help people instead of look down on them as you do.
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Education has quite a bit to do with it. The infection rate of STD's correlates strongly with education and income level.

There is no need to get angry. The Church is trying to teach people to live a moral life. It's not going to do something to enable immorality. On the other hand, it's not forcing anyone to do anything... people can choose to do what they want to do.

Catholics believe in love, marriage, then sex within wedlock. There is no need to try to twist that in to a negative thing.

Holding positive ideals is a good thing.
 
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Peter Grimm said:
Education has quite a bit to do with it. The infection rate of STD's correlates strongly with education and income level.

There is no need to get angry. The Church is trying to teach people to live a moral life. It's not going to do something to enable immorality. On the other hand, it's not forcing anyone to do anything... people can choose to do what they want to do.

Catholics believe in love, marriage, then sex within wedlock. There is no need to try to twist that in to a negative thing.

Holding positive ideals is a good thing.
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Rich, educated people get STDs and pregnant as well, so no, education does not prevent those things.

Look, it would be nice if we lived in a world that we didn't need to buy car insurance, because there were no accidents. Or not have to lock our doors because there was no crime. This would be a world that a Catholic would love as well as I would. However, we don't live in that kind of world and not everyone follows religion.

That is why it is best to arm our teens with the KNOWLEDGE of proper contraception use and application. you simply cannot stop teens from having sex. It's impossible unless you plan to lock them away at all hours. Yes, teaching them about morals and not having sex until married is great, but it's simply unrealistic to believe EVERY teen is going to follow that.

Given the reality of the situation I'd rather teens have access to and use contraception rather than come home pregnant or with an STD.

That reality is why I think Catholicism's lack of contraception is not only archaic but dangerous and wreckless when applied. You are free to think differently but many people think as I do.
 
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