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Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

Boo Radley said:
No we don't agree. I used the word IF for a reason.

let me ask you, if you apologize for your actions to your wife, does that make you weak? Your neighbor? Your boss? That work who you don't like and doesn't like you? The truth is, being honest and stating your mistakes clearly is a strength. Those who can't do that are weak.
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I agree with you. Acknowledging fault is a strength. But apologizing when there has been no fault is a weakness.
 
nota bene said:
I agree with you. Acknowledging fault is a strength. But apologizing when there has been no fault is a weakness.
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I don't think that has been done. Hell, if anything, we've been painfully slow to accept our end of any fault.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think that has been done. Hell, if anything, we've been painfully slow to accept our end of any fault.
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That's not true at all.

Americans have been blaming themselves, and each other, for all the worlds ills for at least a generation. Your just one in a long line of undistinguished American apologists.
 
Grant said:
So which role in your hypothetical does Obama play and how do his world apology tours effect the American people and that of his predecessors? And as a result of these apologies is it your contention that America is now stronger and more respected?
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What you discribe simply doesn't exist. It's a radical misinterpretation of events. All that has been done has been a few honest, and mild acceptance of our role in very few cases.


That doesn't appear to be the case. You cannot do everyday things like govern your borders or balance a budget while your elected reps are debating contraceptives and Christianity. Another world apology tour might be in order to further trivialize the former world super power to a of state of insignificance.
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nonsense. of course you can, if you want to. I suggest no one, in any party, really wants to be the one to do those things. For varying reasons of course.

Ever since WWII conflicts have not gone well for the United States. You no longer play to win, and everyone knows it. Thats why the USA has most recently been defeated by a ragtag group of camel chasers. If you had learned to treat your enemies the way you treat each other then you might have enjoyed some success in these misadventures.

You should ask to join BHO on his next World Apology Tour and explain again what poor planners you are, that you cannot think ahead and so on. Much of the world is ready for another laugh at America's expense.
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Ture, they ahve not gone well, and largely because no war has been like WWII. The need has not been there. Instead, we've sought not to defend, or even to stop someoene bent on world domination, but to recreate in our image most recently, or against immagined threats like VN. Or something inbetween like Korea. But had the threat been real, and the plan clear, and limited, we'd have faired just as well as we did in WWII.
 
Grant said:
That's not true at all.

Americans have been blaming themselves, and each other, for all the worlds ills for at least a generation. Your just one in a long line of undistinguished American apologists.
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That's really a misperception on your part. But you're nto a alone. So many on the more conservative extreme see it that way. I call in poor nation esteem. You see anything not positive as being an attack or hhate America first, to quote the common meme.
 
Boo Radley said:
What you discribe simply doesn't exist. It's a radical misinterpretation of events. All that has been done has been a few honest, and mild acceptance of our role in very few cases.
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Ýou made the hypothetical "let me ask you, if you apologize for your actions to your wife..."" etc. and now you've changed it from an apology to a "mild acceptance of our role in a very few cases". Do you recall those cases? Do you recall the responses from those to whom he publicly groveled?

nonsense. of course you can, if you want to. I suggest no one, in any party, really wants to be the one to do those things. For varying reasons of course.
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Right. There is no one who wants to look after the borders or talk of balancing a budget because it would involve making a decision which might effect an election campaign. Many Americans, and you appear to be among them, appreciate that no hard decisions will be made, that the aimless drifting will help gain an election victory so that the drift may continue. This aimlessness, this malaise, this public humiliation of the Americana people on the international stage, is always welcomed by the always American left, and its enemies.

Ture, they ahve not gone well, and largely because no war has been like WWII. The need has not been there. Instead, we've sought not to defend, or even to stop someoene bent on world domination, but to recreate in our image most recently, or against immagined threats like VN. Or something inbetween like Korea. But had the threat been real, and the plan clear, and limited, we'd have faired just as well as we did in WWII.
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The Americans soldiers did very well in WWII, and have performed well in every action their government has asked of them. Its the American public, notably of the left, that loses American wars. And the fact is that following WWII FDR, charmed by "Uncle Joe"Stalin, gave away Eastern Europe to the Communists. And you apparently have no idea about VN.

The plain truth is that there is no plan that will satisfy the left, no threat, even when plainly and clearly uttered, that will allow their government to take either offensive or defensive action against those who would do them harm. They will always attempt to mollify their enemies, back down at the slightest threat lest someone get hurt, and protest when their government does act. They will accuse their government, as you did in your post, that there is no plan, that the US government is short-sighted, that their leadership is stupid. This has become the pattern of the American left and the harm they have done to their country, and many others throughout the world, is incalculable.
 
Grant said:
Ýou made the hypothetical "let me ask you, if you apologize for your actions to your wife..."" etc. and now you've changed it from an apology to a "mild acceptance of our role in a very few cases". Do you recall those cases? Do you recall the responses from those to whom he publicly groveled?
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Don't get confused. The first one was in dealing with the logic of your thinking. The second one was an attempt to bring some reality back to the discussion. Your reasoning is off even if you saw the wordl as it really was.

Right. There is no one who wants to look after the borders or talk of balancing a budget because it would involve making a decision which might effect an election campaign. Many Americans, and you appear to be among them, appreciate that no hard decisions will be made, that the aimless drifting will help gain an election victory so that the drift may continue. This aimlessness, this malaise, this public humiliation of the Americana people on the international stage, is always welcomed by the always American left, and its enemies.
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Not enough to pay the consequences. How long have we been dealing with the border? During that time, how often has each party held the power to do something? When exactly has anything ever been done? And can you show when anyone has dealt with the deficit? best we got was during a divided government. When either party held the power, nothing. Sqwat. Nada.

This is another case when you don't see the world as it is. No one wants to correct the border situaiton. The labor is cheap. It helps business. Lots of great talk on it, but tens years from now, we'll still be talking about it. Someday you might take off the glasses and really ask why.


The Americans soldiers did very well in WWII, and have performed well in every action their government has asked of them. Its the American public, notably of the left, that loses American wars. And the fact is that following WWII FDR, charmed by "Uncle Joe"Stalin, gave away Eastern Europe to the Communists. And you apparently have no idea about VN.

The plain truth is that there is no plan that will satisfy the left, no threat, even when plainly and clearly uttered, that will allow their government to take either offensive or defensive action against those who would do them harm. They will always attempt to mollify their enemies, back down at the slightest threat lest someone get hurt, and protest when their government does act. They will accuse their government, as you did in your post, that there is no plan, that the US government is short-sighted, that their leadership is stupid. This has become the pattern of the American left and the harm they have done to their country, and many others throughout the world, is incalculable.
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Where did I say anything about the AMerican soldier? I agree they have performed well. But the rest of your nonsense is just that, nonsense. I'm fairly schooled on VN. We never should have gone their. VN was an ally in WWII. And if we had helped them with their independence form france, even a communist VN would have been a friend, and we could have influenced without the deaths and the long war for nothing. It is not unAmerican to think.

Part of the problem with debate today is too many are arguing with someone called left and right, and not the person before them. As long as someone does that, they never have to really listen.
 
Boo Radley said:
Don't get confused. The first one was in dealing with the logic of your thinking. The second one was an attempt to bring some reality back to the discussion. Your reasoning is off even if you saw the wordl as it really was.
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The reputation of the left is one of muddled thinking, often taken to absurd degrees. Try to clarify your own thinking and point of view regarding the topic of discussion before wandering off into assessing the posts of other posters. Avoid hypotheticals whenever possible. They only muddy your intellectual waters.

Not enough to pay the consequences. How long have we been dealing with the border? During that time, how often has each party held the power to do something? When exactly has anything ever been done? And can you show when anyone has dealt with the deficit? best we got was during a divided government. When either party held the power, nothing. Sqwat. Nada.
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Then we are in agreement. Americans can no longer govern their borders or balance a budget, only blame the other parties for their mess. You would also not vote for a candidate who would try to clear up these situations.That's part of what I meant earlier when I said you treat your enemies better than you do each other.

This is another case when you don't see the world as it is. No one wants to correct the border situaiton. The labor is cheap. It helps business. Lots of great talk on it, but tens years from now, we'll still be talking about it. Someday you might take off the glasses and really ask why.
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But I do know why and told you why. What's your explanation?
Where did I say anything about the AMerican soldier? I agree they have performed well. But the rest of your nonsense is just that, nonsense
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Did you see me quoting you? It was me who mentioned the brave American soldier only to demonstrate how they contrast with their governments and the American Left. It was the left who referred to them as ""baby killers", remember? It is the Left who are always anti military. We all know that.
I'm fairly schooled on VN. We never should have gone their. VN was an ally in WWII. And if we had helped them with their independence form france, even a communist VN would have been a friend, and we could have influenced without the deaths and the long war for nothing. It is not unAmerican to think.
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No, you are not schooled on VN, You are schooled on the Leftist take on VN, which happens to coincide, again, with America's enemies.
Part of the problem with debate today is too many are arguing with someone called left and right, and not the person before them. As long as someone does that, they never have to really listen.
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You use those terms or similar in most every post, but I'm listening.
 
Grant said:
The reputation of the left is one of muddled thinking, often taken to absurd degrees. Try to clarify your own thinking and point of view regarding the topic of discussion before wandering off into assessing the posts of other posters. Avoid hypotheticals whenever possible. They only muddy your intellectual waters.
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If one looks only at the extremes, one can make the same case against the right. Again, arguing the extremes is easier than the person before you.

And my point was easy to follow, if you want to follow it. ;)

Then we are in agreement. Americans can no longer govern their borders or balance a budget, only blame the other parties for their mess. You would also not vote for a candidate who would try to clear up these situations.That's part of what I meant earlier when I said you treat your enemies better than you do each other.
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We may see the same result, but not the cause. And Mexicans coming over to do would cheap labor are not our enemies. They are people seeking a better life on the whole, and not much different than Americans would do if the situation were reversed.

There is no candidate who will do anything about this. You miss this point. All they will do is make a show. Some will eat up the show, but if you vote them all in, we'll still be here ten years from now. You misdiagnosis the problem.

But I do know why and told you why. What's your explanation?
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No. You said it was because we talk about birth control. That is not the reason. the reason is the wealthy, business, by and large want and need the cheap labor. We could end it tomorrow if we wanted with the laws already on the books. We really don't want to, not those who matter anyway.

Did you see me quoting you? It was me who mentioned the brave American soldier only to demonstrate how they contrast with their governments and the American Left. It was the left who referred to them as ""baby killers", remember? It is the Left who are always anti military. We all know that.
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You have to go back to VN to find that, and again, you seek to argue someone not before you. I served, 82nd Airborne. You simply want to argue with some stereotype and nto the person before you.

Also, there were soldiers who did bad things in VN, as now, and too young people, not yet mature enough to understand complexities before them, such terrible things did happen.

But even then, the blame was largely with leaders who went to war needlessly and without just cause. This was not WWII or anything like it. This is the point YOU miss.

No, you are not schooled on VN, You are schooled on the Leftist take on VN, which happens to coincide, again, with America's enemies.
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No, I'm school. I went into the military in the 70's. VN was quite a raw nerve to soldiers then. I got many different views, and Have read many things on it. You should seek more to understand than to hold on to a belief.

You use those terms or similar in most every post, but I'm listening.
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I rarely use those terms. You should read closer.
 
Boo Radley said:
We may see the same result, but not the cause. And Mexicans coming over to do would cheap labor are not our enemies. They are people seeking a better life on the whole, and not much different than Americans would do if the situation were reversed.
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No, Mexicans are not your enemies but an open border policy is not good for the United States.

There is no candidate who will do anything about this.
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Right.
You miss this point. All they will do is make a show. Some will eat up the show, but if you vote them all in, we'll still be here ten years from now. You misdiagnosis the problem.
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No, i diagnosed the problem accurately and so did you. The US cannot govern its borders. The reasons may vary according to individual political whims but the fact remains that Americans cannot control their borders. As a result of what's happened in the US and Europe, btw, Canada is now making their borders and immigration policies more strict.

No. You said it was because we talk about birth control. That is not the reason. the reason is the wealthy, business, by and large want and need the cheap labor. We could end it tomorrow if we wanted with the laws already on the books. We really don't want to, not those who matter anyway.
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You cannot govern your borders nor balance a budget, both thought at one time to be essential to any nation which took itself seriously. And there is still no will to turn things around. It will end badly. Blame the usual suspects but the consequences will be the same no matter who is at fault.
You have to go back to VN to find that, and again, you seek to argue someone not before you. I served, 82nd Airborne. You simply want to argue with some stereotype and nto the person before you.
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I dont want to argue VN. But it was as clear then as it is now whose side the Left were on.
Also, there were soldiers who did bad things in VN, as now, and too young people, not yet mature enough to understand complexities before them, such terrible things did happen.
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Yes, on occasion soldiers do bad things. So do civilians. Is there a point here?

But even then, the blame was largely with leaders who went to war needlessly and without just cause. This was not WWII or anything like it. This is the point YOU miss.
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America will never have a cause just enough to satisfy the American Left. Never.
No, I'm school. I went into the military in the 70's. VN was quite a raw nerve to soldiers then. I got many different views, and Have read many things on it. You should seek more to understand than to hold on to a belief.
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And this raw nerve was, largely, exasperated by the American Left. That is clear.

So far you've said nothing that has impressed me. You make claims that you know a great deal but this is followed by inane comments such as soldiers do bad things. Perhaps you should focus on what is said rather than falsely advertising your areas of expertise.
I rarely use those terms. You should read closer.
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Fair enough.
 
Grant said:
No, Mexicans are not your enemies but an open border policy is not good for the United States.
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If our leaders agreed with you, it would be closed. Sorry.


Right.
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I assume that is not agreement, so show where we've closed it? The al;ws are on the book to stop it.

No, i diagnosed the problem accurately and so did you. The US cannot govern its borders. The reasons may vary according to individual political whims but the fact remains that Americans cannot control their borders. As a result of what's happened in the US and Europe, btw, Canada is now making their borders and immigration policies more strict.
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You blamed it because we can't talk and chew gum at the same time. That was a misdiagnosis. You have not thought about it with a clear head and good reasoning.

You cannot govern your borders nor balance a budget, both thought at one time to be essential to any nation which took itself seriously. And there is still no will to turn things around. It will end badly. Blame the usual suspects but the consequences will be the same no matter who is at fault.
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The word is we won't, not we can't. There are reasons, and hyper partisanship is one of the reasons. Unless you properly diagnose the problem, you will never know what the solution is.

I dont want to argue VN. But it was as clear then as it is now whose side the Left were on.
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I know, you don't want to look at it honestly, but I will concede this isn't the place. It is easier to have a them than to see any nuance. I do understand, really.


Yes, on occasion soldiers do bad things. So do civilians. Is there a point here?
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true, and yep, there is a point. Bad apples spoil all bunches, be it military or civilian. The taste of VN was a bad taste, and the spoil spilled over. But the blame was with those who reckless and wrongly took us to an unneeded war, much like we saw again in Iraq.



America will never have a cause just enough to satisfy the American Left. Never.
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yeah, but both of them don't matter. The point is a majority of a nation that is center right didn't support either VN or Iraq.

And this raw nerve was, largely, exasperated by the American Left. That is clear.

So far you've said nothing that has impressed me. You make claims that you know a great deal but this is followed by inane comments such as soldiers do bad things. Perhaps you should focus on what is said rather than falsely advertising your areas of expertise.
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Again, both of them don't matter. What was the comment about losing Cronkite? The fact was VN lost the country as a whole, outside of the relatively few extreme supporters. You blame the left, whoever they are, but the fact was the nation didn't support it.

Fair enough.
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:thumbs:
 
Boo Radley said:
If our leaders agreed with you, it would be closed. Sorry.
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So your leaders feel an open door policy is the best policy? And the people agree with them?

You blamed it because we can't talk and chew gum at the same time. That was a misdiagnosis. You have not thought about it with a clear head and good reasoning.
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You know how to use the quote system so why not do it? I've asked you many times to please follow that rule because you fabricate, and are now doing it again.
The word is we won't, not we can't. There are reasons, and hyper partisanship is one of the reasons. Unless you properly diagnose the problem, you will never know what the solution is.
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Won't, can't - the result is the same. Your still flailing around for someone, anyone , to blame while the ship of state sinks. You, and millions like you, are the problem.

true, and yep, there is a point. Bad apples spoil all bunches, be it military or civilian. The taste of VN was a bad taste, and the spoil spilled over. But the blame was with those who reckless and wrongly took us to an unneeded war, much like we saw again in Iraq.
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And the left wanted to ensure that both wars were lost, as indeed they were. The Left supported international communism and later Islamic extremism. Calling these wars unneeded" is only a weak effort to intellectualize what is really an anti American habit.

Now the left will attempt to ensure America's destruction with open borders and unsustainable debt. And anyone who threatens this agenda will be roundly denounced from every direction, few of them ever dealing with the actual issues now facing the United States. That's the point of this whole contraception business. This administration knows well how to distract their sheep.
 
Grant said:
So your leaders feel an open door policy is the best policy? And the people agree with them?
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First not mine, but our. Party makes no difference. Second, no, they merely have to allow it for those who need it and influence them more than working folks do. If they wanted it closed, it would be closed.


You know how to use the quote system so why not do it? I've asked you many times to please follow that rule because you fabricate, and are now doing it again.
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I fabricate nothing. Your quote, which you know as well as I do, was that talking about contraceptions prevent us from tackling these things (walking and chewing gum at the same time). but that is not the reason at all.

Won't, can't - the result is the same. Your still flailing around for someone, anyone , to blame while the ship of state sinks. You, and millions like you, are the problem.
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it makes a difference, and has nothing to do with blame. You cannot fix what you don't understand.

And the left wanted to ensure that both wars were lost, as indeed they were. The Left supported international communism and later Islamic extremism. Calling these wars unneeded" is only a weak effort to intellectualize what is really an anti American habit.

Now the left will attempt to ensure America's destruction with open borders and unsustainable debt. And anyone who threatens this agenda will be roundly denounced from every direction, few of them ever dealing with the actual issues now facing the United States. That's the point of this whole contraception business. This administration knows well how to distract their sheep.
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You have invested heavily into the propaganda. Sad. I advise yo step back, take a deep breath, clear your mind of the them and us garbage, and start examining the situation anew. Less partisanship and more objective analysis.
 
Higgins86 said:
well he's not exactly begging is he, the guy has to apologise its called being a statesmen.
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Obama should say, "Stop burning our flags, and we'll stop burning your Korans."
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Revolutionary!
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Agreed! As revolutionary as thinking pulling out of the Middle East will turn all the terrorists into America's BFF's. OOooh! Can't wait!
 
American said:
Obama should say, "Stop burning our flags, and we'll stop burning your Korans."
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A wonderful idea!

Americans are probably disliked internationally more than Afghanis but if Americans were to start shooting Muslims whenever their flag was burned there would be a lot of shocked people around the world.

Muslims riot and murder over their hurt feelings and its become rather expected. The generally accepted standards of human behavior fall dramatically whenever Muslims become involved.
 
Ockham said:
Agreed! As revolutionary as thinking pulling out of the Middle East will turn all the terrorists into America's BFF's. OOooh! Can't wait!
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Wow!!! Link someone arguing that.

:coffeepap
 
Now those savages in Afghanistan have killed 6 more British soldiers .... This is the worst single loss of life in one incident due to enemy action for UK troops in Afghanistan since the start of the war in 2001.

they really belong to The Dark ages, they really do!


BBC News - Six UK soldiers killed in Afghanistan explosion
 
Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

StillBallin75 said:
We could probably do that a lot better if we weren't fighting wars on their soil.
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Well if you mean Afghanistan soil I could have sworn that we weren't fighting a war on their soil when they attacked the U.S.S. Cole, our embassies in Africa, or the twin towers and pentagon, if you mean Muslim soil, well Muslims have been attacking the U.S. nearly since the founding of this country.
 
Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

Afghanistan made none of those attacks.
 
Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

Grant said:
They harbored those who did.

They should have given up OBL right away.
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You do know they did agree to give him to a neutral country, and did try to broker a last minute deal. We might have gotten justice concerning him faster, and certainly cheaper had we accepted something there. Just a thought. . . . .

:coffeepap
 
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