Didn't they once blow up the Buddha statues of Bamiyan despite world wide plea which they didn't give a damn? Did any muslims anywhere even apologize for it? Did even one buddhist anywhere go out to the street in angry protest? Apparently, these people are savage zombies to their cultish way of life that will never amount to anything except bloodshed as long as they continue to practice their 7th century blood rituals. They understand only violence and bloodshed, not reason.
I understand your sentiment, but really, when you invade a country, are not really fighting their army, but their people, your the one whose made the mistake. Much like with VN, while you can make a leader surrender, or an army quit, a people tends to resist much longer. Democracies are not designed to be able to occupy long term.
As for Iraq, well, I don't really see the difference you do. But what happens to both will and always has depended on what they do, not us.
Going into Afghanistan wasn't a mistake. We had to do that. The actions post invasion are the mistake. In contrast, Iraq was a mistake. The difference is, what we did post invasion there was better. We didn't get a half-hearted surge like Obama gave Afghanistan. The ROE were far more relaxed, the people actually gave a crap about their own country, and we had a lot more autonomy on the ground. We agree that the people have to care about their country and want change. Afghanistan does neither. Iraqis did care and still do. When news that the Saudi's (a Sunni gov't) are establishing an embassy in Baghdad comes out, I'd say that's an indicator that things are going good. Sure, they still have attacks from time to time. They still have protests as well. Do we not have a friggin Occupy protest in the every city with a population over 10? Do they not clash with police in Oakland or New York? I believe the Iraqis are doing well and will continue too.
War and neglect leaves 500,000 Afghans homeless: Amnesty | The Raw StoryHalf a million Afghans displaced by war have been left homeless and struggling to survive because of government and international neglect, Amnesty International said Thursday.
Around 400 people join makeshift shelters around the country every day, Amnesty said in a report entitled “Fleeing war, finding misery”, based on three years of research.
The Afghan government estimates that more than 40 people froze to death this winter, the harshest in 15 years, with at least 28 children dying in camps around Kabul. ...
Not sure we had to. I remember an argument by an EX CIA agent, Scheuer?, who argued we should have done what we actually ended up doing concerning OBL. Go in on 9/12, take him out, and go home. There would have been an uproar, but it would have been over, the message sent, and we would not be nation building or encouraging our enemies.
Still, most understood Afghanistan. It was Iraq where we, or Bush if you prefer, lost our minds.
But the point you responded to was that Afghanistan is up to the afghan people and not the US. It will always be the case.
The initial entry into Afghanistan was MASTERFUL. If you've never read books on that, I suggest you do.
Can you recommend a book?
Not a Good Day to Die is great by Sean Naylor.
The Mission, the Men, and Me: Lessons from a Former Delta Force Commander by Pete Blaber. This one starts out like a motivational book about how to fix your life. It turns into a great war book that shows how much autonomy was given to our guys over there.
Hunting the Jackal by Billy Waugh. The last few chaptors talk about Afghanistan. The whole book is a great read (he tracked Osama Bin Laden in the 90's) but the last few chaptors are great.
There are quite a few more but these popped in my head first.
The ironic thing about all of this is that burning it is one of two Islamically accepted methods to dispose of holy scripture, like Qurans that are no longer usable with torn up pages or if they are edited etc, the other acceptable method being burying them.
Another two americans killed in the aftermath of the burning of the koran.
Gunman Kills 2 Americans at Afghan Ministry - TIME
Yet, there's no outcry over this. Obama and every General up there is apologizing and begging for forgiveness because we burnt Qurans. Yet, you hear no request to stop the violence or killing of our servicemen in response to it. Someone can say all they want that we brought this on ourselves. You would also be making the claim that burning a book deserves the death penalty.
Yet, there's no outcry over this. Obama and every General up there is apologizing and begging for forgiveness because we burnt Qurans. Yet, you hear no request to stop the violence or killing of our servicemen in response to it. Someone can say all they want that we brought this on ourselves. You would also be making the claim that burning a book deserves the death penalty.
If I am in charge I will impose the death penalty.
I don't mean to be rude, MTP, but I get the feeling that asking these crazy people to stop killing our guys is like asking a bear to stop mauling you when you get attacked in the forest. I don't believe that burning a book deserves the death penalty any more than taunting a bear deserves a mauling, but if you **** with a bear you are going to get attacked regardless.
I said above that we are fighting a war on their soil. It is incumbent on us to be mindful of their culture and customs. If their culture, customs, and attitudes are crazy (or if there are extremists who happen to be crazy and violent), that's not something that can change and it's not something that being outraged will solve, it's just a fact of life.
If I am in charge I will impose the death penalty.
I don't mean to be rude, MTP, ...........
I understand it would do nothing, I really do. But how often does Obama come out and support or bring attention to other worthless and/or doomed causes merely for political gain? All the time. Just like any other politician. Heck, his whole State of the Union was for a doomed cause lol. He knows none of the crap he talked about is getting passed. Would it kill him (in a time where many of us in the military think that he is against us) to come out and ask for the violence to stop? If anything, just to do what a LEADER is supposed to and support his subordinates! Thats what Obama doesn't understand about the position he holds. Just his words influence people. His actions influence people. He doesn't have to pass a bill or push legislation to affect people. He can just bring attention to an issue or show support for someone and people listen. Even Bush understood that. Say what you want about Bush, but he understood the magnitude of his position and the power it wielded. He understood that his words carried weight. Clinton got that as well. Obama seems to think he's just another dude. I hate to tell him, he's not. He's the friggin President and he needs to lead.
To your second point, I will not form an opinion about the burning of the Quran's over there until the investigation reveals whether detainees where using them to pass messages. Apparently that is an allegation that is floating around right now. I heard of that happening in Iraq when I was there so it wouldn't shock me. If they don't want us to burn their "holy" book, then they shouldn't use it to plot and plan.
If I am in charge I will impose the death penalty.