• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

Has always been, will always be?

Obviously not :shrug:

You guys put too much value in your selves. We're no longer a hunter/gatherer society in which someone MUST stay home wit hthe kids nor tend the fields in earshot of the shack.

What does a father/mother couple do that a single parent can't?

Quite a bit. I'm surprised we still have to discuss this. That does not mean that single parent families aren't or cant be successful.
 
This is THE problem facing this country right now. As a whole, the children of unwed mothers vastly underperform in every area of life compared to kids from traditionaly families.
 
This is THE problem facing this country right now. As a whole, the children of unwed mothers vastly underperform in every area of life compared to kids from traditionaly families.

I think you forgot to post the cites backing up your assertion. For example:

ITHACA, N.Y. -- Mothers can be a positive influence in their children's lives, whether or not they are single parents. A new multiethnic study at Cornell University has found that being a single parent does not appear to have a negative effect on the behavior or educational performance of a mother's 12- and 13-year-old children.

What mattered most in this study, Cornell researcher Henry Ricciuti says, is a mother's education and ability level and, to a lesser extent, family income and quality of the home environment. He found consistent links between these maternal attributes and a child's school performance and behavior, whether the family was white, black or Hispanic.

"Over all, we find little or no evidence of systematic negative effects of single parenthood on children, regardless of how long they have lived with a single parent during the previous six years," says Ricciuti, who is professor emeritus of human development in the College of Human Ecology at Cornell.

Cornell News: Single parents and children
 
I think you forgot to post the cites backing up your assertion. For example:



Cornell News: Single parents and children

You need a study? Go outside and open your eyes. It's plain as the nose on your face.

I see it daily through my kids sports activities and at school. There is a massive difference in behavior, self-esteem, communication skills, and aptitude in basic life, not the least of which is presence and hygiene.
 
You need a study? Go outside and open your eyes. It's plain as the nose on your face.

I see it daily through my kids sports activities and at school. There is a massive difference in behavior, self-esteem, communication skills, and aptitude in basic life, not the least of which is presence and hygiene.

Amazingly, I do find organized, scientific studies a lot more convincing than your anecdotal observations.
 
You need a study? Go outside and open your eyes. It's plain as the nose on your face.

I see it daily through my kids sports activities and at school. There is a massive difference in behavior, self-esteem, communication skills, and aptitude in basic life, not the least of which is presence and hygiene.

Having a piece of paper and a ceremony in no way, shape, or form makes a person a good parent.

The ability to be a good parent and raise a productive and vibrant child does not in any way depend on being married.

Plenty of married people are abusive, negligent, and down-right hideous parents and role-models.

Please don't equate marriage with good parenting.
 
Having a piece of paper and a ceremony in no way, shape, or form makes a person a good parent.

The ability to be a good parent and raise a productive and vibrant child does not in any way depend on being married.

Plenty of married people are abusive, negligent, and down-right hideous parents and role-models.

Please don't equate marriage with good parenting.

He may or may not believe that but it really wasn't the arguement made. The arguement was that a child does better on average when both parents are there to raise them.
 
Having a piece of paper and a ceremony in no way, shape, or form makes a person a good parent.

The ability to be a good parent and raise a productive and vibrant child does not in any way depend on being married.

Plenty of married people are abusive, negligent, and down-right hideous parents and role-models.

Please don't equate marriage with good parenting.

Thank you for completing not understanding the point.

I guess a loving marriage in the home sets absolutely no positive example or provides no advantageous environment for a child whatsoever.

How we've gotten to a point where we have to debate and explain something a monkey could understand is beyond me.
 
He may or may not believe that but it really wasn't the arguement made. The arguement was that a child does better on average when both parents are there to raise them.

And that in now way means the parents need, or have to be married.
 
This is THE problem facing this country right now. As a whole, the children of unwed mothers vastly underperform in every area of life compared to kids from traditionaly families.

You need a study? Go outside and open your eyes. It's plain as the nose on your face.

I see it daily through my kids sports activities and at school. There is a massive difference in behavior, self-esteem, communication skills, and aptitude in basic life, not the least of which is presence and hygiene.

Thank you for completing not understanding the point.

I guess a loving marriage in the home sets absolutely no positive example or provides no advantageous environment for a child whatsoever.

How we've gotten to a point where we have to debate and explain something a monkey could understand is beyond me.

Quite obviously it's YOU that needs to improve their communication skills.

You made a broad-brushed statement with no facts to back it up, then when confronted with a study that PROVED you wrong you made another ignorant comment.

Our country is not going down the tubes simply because more people are having children out of wedlock.
 
He may or may not believe that but it really wasn't the arguement [sic] made. The arguement [sic] was that a child does better on average when both parents are there to raise them.

And that in now way means the parents need, or have to be married.

One of the main purposes of marriage is to establish the commitment between a man and a woman, to stay together for life, to jointly share responsibility for one another, and for any children that they might produce. It is marriage, properly entered into and respected, that forms the basis for a stable, solid family.
 
Our country is not going down the tubes simply because more people are having children out of wedlock.

That is one of the greatest lies of the left, that we can undermine the family as the basic unit of society, without severely damaging society itself as a consequence.
 
Except that reliable, peer reviewed, and revered studies show that children do much better in all catagories when raised in household with BOTH parents present, and committed.


j-mac

Want to bring up a source for that claim jack?
 
Want to bring up a source for that claim jack?

Kids better off in two-parent families

I do not recall whether you were involved in the study in the education section about why some kids do better than others. One area that was pretty much in agreement was that kids with higher family incomes did better.

These are for the most part going to be two parent families.
 
Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

Awesome.
 
Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

Awesome.

Wow, what a way to make this about abortion. You must be fun at parties.
 
Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

Awesome.

Well I don't read facts about 'children born to' and immediately think of 'abortion' - sorry if that dissapoints (them - not you) :shrug:But you have a good point: damned if they do - damned if they don't.
 
Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

Awesome.

True, it's why, to me, it's so hard to take them seriously when they cry, "won't someone please think of the children?!" Most women who have abortions do so because they don't feel that they are in a financial position to take care of a child, or another child, but most abortion opponents are also opponents of public assistance, SCHIP, and numerous other programs designed to help children *after* they're born.
 
Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

Awesome.

two parent families > single parent families > killing children. not really sure why that logic so difficult to figure.
 
True, it's why, to me, it's so hard to take them seriously when they cry, "won't someone please think of the children?!" Most women who have abortions do so because they don't feel that they are in a financial position to take care of a child, or another child, but most abortion opponents are also opponents of public assistance, SCHIP, and numerous other programs designed to help children *after* they're born.

quick! without looking name the Presidential Contender for 2012 claiming that we need to triple the favorable treatment of children in the tax code!

now - again, no google - which side of the political spectrum wants to provide education vouchers to allow poor children to escape failed educational systems and have a better chance at life?

keep answering honestly now - which political aisle wants to lower the cost of entry to the work force by getting rid of minimum wage laws and reducing employment regulatory complexity, thereby making it easier for poor youths to get that first job and begin developing full-time work skills that will statistically help push them into the middle class?
 
Last edited:
quick! without looking name the Presidential Contender for 2012 claiming that we need to triple the favorable treatment of children in the tax code!

Don't know. It sure isn't the front runner.

[Ronmey] would also raise taxes on poor families with children at home and those going to college. Romney does this by reducing benefits from the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit and by ending the American Opportunity tax credit for college education.

now - again, no google - which side of the political spectrum wants to provide education vouchers to allow poor children to escape failed educational systems and have a better chance at life?

You mean which party wants to kill public education by siphoning off much needed funds from schools? That would be the Republicans.

keep answering honestly now - which political aisle wants to lower the cost of entry to the work force by getting rid of minimum wage laws and reducing employment regulatory complexity, thereby making it easier for poor youths to get that first job and begin developing full-time work skills that will statistically help push them into the middle class?

Seriously? You want to claim that lowering young people's wages is pro-children? :lol:

What a silly quiz. Let's try this one: which party made it a major platform plank to oppose expanded health insurance for children? Which party is maniacal about repealing Obamacare, which extends health coverage to millions of children? Which party had multiple candidates who want to abolish the Department of Education? Which party has a candidate who wants to take a whach at child labor laws? Which party opposes the DREAM Act, meaning that they want to expel children who were brought here by their parents and who may not even speak the language of their native countries? Which party wants to slash the school lunch program?
 
I was confused by the article. Were they referring to white women only the entire time - or just for a portion of the relayed statistics?

That part is stupid, though:


What - only educated people know how to get married? LOL

:/ except that statistically, the answer is: increasingly yes. for example, in 1960 the marriage rate was about 85% for lower class Americans. It has since dropped to 50%... but has stayed at 85% for upper class. Even then, roughly 1/3rd of lower class marriages in the 30-49 age group end in divorce, whereas only 5% of upper class marriages do. for white mothers with college degrees, for example, the current illegitimacy rate is 5%. for white mothers who dropped out of high school, that rate is over 60%. when the nonmarital births and divorced rates are figured together, what you get is about 6-7 times as many poor/lower class families raising kids with one parent as educated families.

children raised in single parent households do worse at school, are more likely to get in trouble with the law, and themselves make poorer life decisions (hard drug usage, for example). educated parents are far more likely to get and stay married, thus raising children who themselves are more likely to become fully educated, make above average income, and then get and stay married. non educated parents are more likely to do the opposite.

PEW Research did research on why people fall from the middle class into poverty, and noticed a few extremely high correlations.

#1 was divorce
#2 was failure to marry
#3 was using heroin
#4 was failure to graduate high school.

yeah. there is a definite line being drawn in American society between the large group of people who are poor and fail at marriage, and those who are not and do not.
 
:/ except that statistically, the answer is: increasingly yes. for example, in 1960 the marriage rate was about 85% for lower class Americans. It has since dropped to 50%... but has stayed at 85% for upper class. Even then, roughly 1/3rd of lower class marriages in the 30-49 age group end in divorce, whereas only 5% of upper class marriages do. for white mothers with college degrees, for example, the current illegitimacy rate is 5%. for white mothers who dropped out of high school, that rate is over 60%. when the nonmarital births and divorced rates are figured together, what you get is about 6-7 times as many poor/lower class families raising kids with one parent as educated families.

children raised in single parent households do worse at school, are more likely to get in trouble with the law, and themselves make poorer life decisions (hard drug usage, for example). educated parents are far more likely to get and stay married, thus raising children who themselves are more likely to become fully educated, make above average income, and then get and stay married. non educated parents are more likely to do the opposite.

PEW Research did research on why people fall from the middle class into poverty, and noticed a few extremely high correlations.

#1 was divorce
#2 was failure to marry
#3 was using heroin
#4 was failure to graduate high school.

yeah. there is a definite line being drawn in American society between the large group of people who are poor and fail at marriage, and those who are not and do not.

Are you familiar with the difference between correlation and causation? Do you have a link for all those stats you just cited?

The fact is, as indicated in the Cornell study I cited above, children of single parents do just as well in school and are just as well behaved as children from two-parent families, when you correct for the income and education of the parents.
 
Don't know. It sure isn't the front runner.

you're right. it's that far right wing crazy social extremist who wants to ban abortion :) you may recall this started off with the idiotic claim that the Pro-Life movement didnt' really care about children.

You mean which party wants to kill public education by siphoning off much needed funds from schools?

no, funding would stay the same - the quality would vastly improve. but here's another guess - which President in his most recent budget slashed scholarship programs in Washington DC that went to poor children?

Seriously? You want to claim that lowering young people's wages getting rid of the minimum wage is pro-children?

it certainly is. keeping minorities out of the workforce is why we got the minimum wage in the first place, after all, and a large percentage of minimum wage earners are our youth. the point, however, is that the real "minimum wage" is zero. as in, unemployed, and artificial price floors (such as minimum wages) simply ensure that any good not currently viable at that price will go unsold. a large percentage of our youth unemployed is not worth minimum wage plus the costs of hiring an employee, which is why they are systemically unemployable, and can earn money only under the table and in the black (illegal) economy. but hey, congratulations on convincing generations of young black kids that their only hope for advancement is rap music or the drug industry. that's worked out really well for them.

What a silly quiz. Let's try this one: which party made it a major platform plank to oppose expanded health insurance for children?

Republicans. you may recall their introduction of low-cost health plans that allowed our poor to build wealth called HSA's?

Which party is maniacal about repealing Obamacare, which extends health coverage to millions of children?

a 26 year old is not a child. and obamacare makes our healthcare system and our fiscal straits worse for children.

I note, for example, that you do not bring up the fact that one current Spend Spend Spend party is busy selling our children's futures in return for current easy cash. one party passed a budget last year which reduces the future burden of this generation on the next... the other one distinctly failed to so.

Which party had multiple candidates who want to abolish the Department of Education?

precisely. because it would help children. if you want something to become overly expensive and inefficient, you get the Federal Government to run it. why in the world would we wish to punish our children by making the educational system they depend on to gain the skills they will need to compete in the world overly expensive and inefficient.

Which party has a candidate who wants to take a whach at child labor laws help poor youth find jobs?

:) fixed that for you.

Republicans think that work experience that they can later translate into jobs is better for our teenagers than teaching them dependence upon suckling at the states' teats while learning nothing in the failure factories that go by the name of "schools".






look, you can argue policy wise that this or that program helps or doesn't help poor children. but you didnt' do that - you argued intent. which is false on its' face - the conservative movement is chock-a-block with ideas on how to help our poor, especially our underadvantaged children.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom