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PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

it's quite accurate. but prove me wrong. offer facts which will undermine my assertion

the comparison to the US is regarding proxies. it appears some would insist that because iran provides assistance to those "proxies" aligned with its interests, we must conclude that iran is thus engaged in warfare
using that rationale, we must also then conclude the US has been in perennial war via our own array of proxies across the globe

I don't know about "perennial" - use of absolutes is always troublesome. But certainly "consistent". For example, currently we have training teams embedded with the Afghan Military and Police, training them to be effective at securing their areas from the depredations of the Taliban. So long as we continue to direct their efforts, they are our "proxies". NATO is headed by an American Commander who takes his ultimate direction from the President - hence NATO troops operating under American Command (such as in Libya) could be considered American "proxies".

However, at the point at which we cease to direct their efforts, they cease to be our proxies. Hezbollah worldwide takes direction, as well as training, staffing, money, etc from Iran; which is why it is a "proxy". It is not considered part of their Order of Battle due to local recruitment and lack of an official nominal chain of command that ends with the Supreme Leader. That's why they are the worry for nukes - it's harder for us to bomb Iran for what Hezbollah does than it would be (say) for what the regular Iranian Army does.

Don't really know or terribly care what point you are trying to make about the US - again, it remains irrelevant. The facts remain that Iran A) has a multi-decades long history of launching offensive operations not just in the Middle East, but around the world B) have created an incredibly powerful IRGC in order to do so and C) then given this same IRGC control over its' nuclear program.
 
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There have been two facts offered in the discussion:

1. Iran created, funds, trains, supplies, etc various groups such as Hezbolla.

The fact that Iran provides assistance to certain proxies aligned with its interest is not necessarily a bad thing. However, using common sense rather than Noam Chomskism we see that the interests Iran is funding are a) not aligned with our own and b) are regarded as militant groups wishing to "obliterate" a certain sovereign nation (Israel). Thus we conclude that saying Iran has not taken military action in 200 years against a sovereign is misleading at best and wrong at worst.
you present as fact that the proxies intent is to obliterate israel. please prove this. until you do, it cannot be accepted as the "fact" you insist it to be

2. Iran's Qods force has been invloved in military action with the US

This directly refutes the idea the Iran has not had any military action in 200 years.
iran/qods has not initiated war on the USA. and that is because iran has not initiated a war against any sovereign nation in almost two centuries
 
you present as fact that the proxies intent is to obliterate israel. please prove this. until you do, it cannot be accepted as the "fact" you insist it to be

what? Hezbollahs' Charter is to Destroy Israel. That is why THEY say they were founded.

:roll: first you needed to have the Hezbollah - Iran connection demonstrated to you, and now this. You may want to step out of this conversation while you are still way, way behind.

iran/qods has not initiated war on the USA. and that is because iran has not initiated a war against any sovereign nation in almost two centuries

oh, that's cute. circular argumentation: it's true because it's true :roll: I guess all those Qods guys in Iraq and Afghanistan shooting and bombing US troops are taking personal vacation time.
 
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what? Hezbollahs' Charter is to Destroy Israel. That is why THEY say they were founded.

:roll: first you needed to have the Hezbollah - Iran connection demonstrated to you, and now this. You may want to step out of this conversation while you are still way, way behind.
not gonna happen
i refuse to adopt the zionist propaganda
those who would have us attack a country that has not invaded another in two centuries, is without nuclear weapons, and is a signatory to the NPT, at the behest of a nation which has a nuclear arsenal, has no reservations about crossing another country's border to initiate "pre-emptive" war, and which refuses to sign the NPT


oh, that's cute. circular argumentation: it's true because it's true :roll: I guess all those Qods guys in Iraq and Afghanistan shooting and bombing US troops are taking personal vacation time.
and all this time i thought we were fighting al qaeda and the taliban which protects them. now you tell me we are there for a decade fighting iranian proxies. what next, going to insist they also possess weapons of mass destruction
lay off the kool aid, its affecting your judgment
 
:doh


Right, well. Once you start accusing reality of being Zionist Propaganda, I think the possibility of rational debate is pretty much gone.
 
:doh


Right, well. Once you start accusing reality of being Zionist Propaganda, I think the possibility of rational debate is pretty much gone.

My mind is unable to process people that put the hamas and hezbollah terrorists before israel. I truly honestly cannot understand their line of thinking.
 
If you're talking about Israel here then I would like to see your proof.
that it is at israel's urging
or
that israel is a nuclear power
 
that it is at israel's urging
or
that israel is a nuclear power
The later.

I don't know of any proof that Israel is a nuclear power. Oh, sure, there are lots of enuendos, rumors, even a few interesting facts, but no actual proof that Israel has even one nuclear bomb.
 
so, what you are saying is they provide backing to those with ideologies aligned with their own just as the USA does
so, what they do is wrong while when we do it then it is good?

Hardly. Reagan should have been impeached over the Contras. We funded, armed and trained a terrorist squad that murdered, maimed and raped thousands of civilians to topple a democratically elected government.

I'm not saying that when we did it, it was okay, and when they did it, it was wrong. I'm just saying that funding, arming and training a force to attack your enemy outside of your army is a proxy. And if we count the use of proxies, Iran has been in direct military conflict with Israel since the Revolution.
 
we must also then conclude the US has been in perennial war via our own array of proxies across the globe

This would be an accurate description. Yes, the use of proxies by the US (and others) effectively means that nations have been waging war via unconventional means for a very long time.
 
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Glenn Greenwald: The Growing Iranian Military Behemoth | loonwatch.com


Iran is a military threat to the US like Iraq was a military threat to the US.
 
I argree. unless they have long range nukes the home front shouldnt be too concerned. It is more of a economic problem considering their roll in OPEC

That's of no concern to the US military either as Iran has not shown itself to be suicidal in the past. I think you are right, that its more about US hegemony.
 
I'm not really worried about Iran. After pondering this, I've decided that someone would find out that Iran obtained a nuclear weapon and from who. Every weapon gives off certain signatures designating whose weapon it is. If Iran detonates a single nuclear weapon here or in Israel via themselves, a terror organization or what have you, they, and their nuclear weapon supplier would be vaporized off the earth.

Iran might do little terror attacks but nothing so traceable and final as a nuclear attack.
 
That's of no concern to the US military either as Iran has not shown itself to be suicidal in the past.

That's why they'll use a deniable proxy!

:doh
 
That's why they'll use a deniable proxy!

:doh

Who is the deniable proxy that you see as a military threat to the US military, Swami?
 
[h=2]Terrorism and Irrational Fear[/h]"Why is terrorism so frightening? After all, if you just look at the numbers, being blown-up on an airplane is far less likely than dying in a car crash on the way to the grocery store. A Cato report makes this abundantly clear:
In almost all years, the total number of people worldwide who die at the hands of international terrorists anywhere in the world is not much more than the number who drown in bathtubs in the United States.​
And yet there is no Department of Bathtub Security."

"People are especially frightened by the prospect of terrorist attacks. Why? Statistics show that you are far more likely to die in a car accident or by a heart-attack. But we have no idea what the probability of a terrorist attack is, and that frightens us." I just wish our leaders could see past this mass hysteria, instead of egging it on. I'm not sure anybody benefits when politicians brag about preventing "mass death on an unimaginable scale". What we need is another F.D.R, a leader brave enough to tell us that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. "

Terrorism and Irrational Fear : The Frontal Cortex
 
Who is the deniable proxy that you see as a military threat to the US military, Swami?

:roll: well, there would be the one currently engaged in military operations against the US military, sahib.
 
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well, there would be the one currently engaged in military operations against the US military, sahib.


Afraid I'm not privy on the latest boogyman according to the far right. Who is the mystery threat to the US military?
 
State Sponsors of Terrorism

...Iran

Added on January 19, 1984

According to Country Reports on Terrorism 2010: August 18, 2011:[3]

IRAN

Overview: Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2010. Iran’s financial, material, and logistic support for terrorist and militant groups throughout the Middle East and Central Asia had a direct impact on international efforts to promote peace, threatened economic stability in the Gulf, and undermined the growth of democracy.

In 2010, Iran remained the principal supporter of groups implacably opposed to the Middle East Peace Process. The Qods Force, the external operations branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), is the regime’s primary mechanism for cultivating and supporting terrorists abroad. Iran provided weapons, training, and funding to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, including the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC). Since the end of the 2006 Israeli-Hizballah conflict, Iran has assisted Hizballah in rearming, in direct violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701. Iran has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in support of Hizballah in Lebanon and has trained thousands of Hizballah fighters at camps in Iran.

Iran’s Qods Force provided training to the Taliban in Afghanistan on small unit tactics, small arms, explosives, and indirect fire weapons, such as mortars, artillery, and rockets. Since at least 2006, Iran has arranged arms shipments to select Taliban members, including small arms and associated ammunition, rocket propelled grenades, mortar rounds, 107mm rockets, and plastic explosives. Iran has shipped a large number of weapons to Kandahar, Afghanistan aiming to increase its influence in the country.

Despite its pledge to support the stabilization of Iraq, Iranian authorities continued to provide lethal support, including weapons, training, funding, and guidance, to Iraqi Shia militant groups that target U.S. and Iraqi forces. The Qods Force continued to supply Iraqi militants with Iranian-produced advanced rockets, sniper rifles, automatic weapons, and mortars that have killed Iraqi and Coalition Forces, as well as civilians. Iran was responsible for the increased lethality of some attacks on U.S. forces by providing militants with the capability to assemble explosives designed to defeat armored vehicles. The Qods Force, in concert with Lebanese Hizballah, provided training outside of Iraq as well as advisors inside Iraq for Shia militants in the construction and use of sophisticated improvised explosive device technology and other advanced weaponry.

2010 Terrorist Incidents: Jundallah, a terrorist organization that operated primarily in the province of Sistan va Balochistan of Iran, has engaged in numerous terrorist attacks within Iran. Jundallah’s primary target is the Iranian regime; however, it has also attacked many civilians. Since its inception in 2003, these attacks have resulted in the death and maiming of scores of Iranian civilians and government officials. Jundallah has used a variety of terrorist tactics, including suicide bombings, ambushes, kidnappings, and targeted assassinations. Following the February 2010 capture and execution by Iranian authorities of Jundallah’s leader, Abdul Malik Rigi, the group selected a new leader, Mohammed Dhahir Baluch, and confirmed its commitment to continue its terrorist activities. In July, Jundallah attacked the Grand Mosque in Zahedan, killing approximately 30 and injuring hundreds. On December 15, Jundallah claimed credit for another attack in the Southeastern city of Chabahar, where two suicide bombs killed at least 39 and wounded more than 100 people. In November, the United States designated Jundallah as a Foreign Terrorist Organization. (See Chapter 6, Foreign Terrorist Organizations, for more information on Jundallah.)

Legislation and Law Enforcement: In 2010, Iran remained unwilling to bring to justice senior al-Qa’ida (AQ) members it continued to detain, and refused to publicly identify those senior members in its custody. Iran has repeatedly resisted numerous calls to transfer custody of its AQ detainees to their countries of origin or third countries for trial.

In June, Iranian authorities executed former Jundallah leader Abdul Malik Rigi. In December, Iranian authorities executed 11 members of Jundallah reportedly connected to the July mosque attack....
 
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