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PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

Catawba said:
Not by Iran.
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That's true, and likewise Israel hasn't attacked Iran either.

But the Grad and Katyusha missiles fired by Hamas commonly come from Iran via Syria. With all the missiles fired into Israel by Hamas, and Syria in revolt, I suppose the Iranian supply ship stopping in Syria was providing arms to re-supply Gaza, but that's mere supposition of course. :roll:
 
EagleAye said:
That's true, and likewise Israel hasn't attacked Iran either.

But the Grad and Katyusha missiles fired by Hamas commonly come from Iran via Syria. With all the missiles fired into Israel by Hamas, and Syria in revolt, I suppose the Iranian supply ship stopping in Syria was providing arms to re-supply Gaza, but that's mere supposition of course. :roll:
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That's a drop in the bucket to the $3 trillion dollars in military aid we have provided to Israel:

"Total identifiable costs come to almost $3 trillion," Stauffer says. "About 60 percent, well over half, of those costs - about $1.7 trillion - arose from the U.S. defense of Israel, where most of that amount has been incurred since 1973."

The Real Cost Of US Support For Israel - $3 Trillion
 
Mya said:
I still think using those words is inflammatory and disrespectful. I am sorry but that's the way I feel.
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You know what, Mya, I didn't care for them either. But honestly, justabubba DID specify a difference between the Israeli government and the people of Israel. And a lot of folks, including yours truly, have used some unkind words about the ****heads governing Iran. I have had some unkind words about our own ****heads in government. So fair is fair after all. Let's just suck it up and move on. Most people in government anywhere are idiots anyway, so it's not like they don't deserve it.
 
Catawba said:
That's a drop in the bucket to the $3 trillion dollars in military aid we have provided to Israel:

"Total identifiable costs come to almost $3 trillion," Stauffer says. "About 60 percent, well over half, of those costs - about $1.7 trillion - arose from the U.S. defense of Israel, where most of that amount has been incurred since 1973."

The Real Cost Of US Support For Israel - $3 Trillion
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Let's not forget illegal radical christian money to aid in the buildings of homes on annexed territory.
 
Catawba said:
That's a drop in the bucket to the $3 trillion dollars in military aid we have provided to Israel:

"Total identifiable costs come to almost $3 trillion," Stauffer says. "About 60 percent, well over half, of those costs - about $1.7 trillion - arose from the U.S. defense of Israel, where most of that amount has been incurred since 1973."

The Real Cost Of US Support For Israel - $3 Trillion
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That was military support, NOT active defense. We gave them the weapons, Israelis were the ones to actually apply the weapons.
 
EagleAye said:
That was military support, NOT active defense. We gave them the weapons, Israelis were the ones to actually apply the weapons.
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How is that different than support by Iran, except of course that our support has been much greater?
 
Catawba said:
How is that different than support by Iran, except of course that our support has been much greater?
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Well that places both in the realm of proxies, I would say. The US support is for anyone antagonizing Israel, Iran's support of Hamas and Hezbollah is specifically to antagonize Israel alone.
 
EagleAye said:
Well that places both in the realm of proxies, I would say. The US support is for anyone antagonizing Israel, Iran's support of Hamas and Hezbollah is specifically to antagonize Israel alone.
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I agree both are proxies, with one far outspending the other. However, I see little difference in Iran's support of the Palestinians and our support for Israel. I also contend that in the absence of military support of Israel to help in our hegemony in the middle east for their oil resources, you would not see support for the Palestinians by Iran.
 
Catawba said:
...I also contend that in the absence of military support of Israel to help in our hegemony in the middle east for their oil resources...
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SHHHH!!!!

Some people are so attached to the matrix they will even fight to defend it.
 
Catawba said:
I agree both are proxies, with one far outspending the other. However, I see little difference in Iran's support of the Palestinians and our support for Israel. I also contend that in the absence of military support of Israel to help in our hegemony in the middle east for their oil resources, you would not see support for the Palestinians by Iran.
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I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on this. If the US pulls military support for Israel, Iran would continue, and probably strengthen, their support for Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran's proxy war against Israel is conducted more to cement their position (in Arab eyes) as the regional power in the ME, than anything else. It wouldn't surprise me if Iran has no deeply felt disagreement with Israel. Jews are once again a mere pawn in someone's play for power.

I don't think Iran is supporting the Palestinians out of Muslim brotherhood or altruism. I think they're supporting Hamas because they're a convenient tool to fight Israel with. If they really wanted to help the Palestinians, they'd smuggle in concrete and medical supplies, wheat flour, rice, and fresh veggies. What do you want to bet Iran isn't supplying any of these things? The Palestinians are just a pawn to Iran as well.
 
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EagleAye said:
I don't think Iran is supporting the Palestinians out of Muslim brotherhood or altruism. I think they're supporting Hamas because they're a convenient tool to fight Israel with. If they really wanted to help the Palestinians, they'd smuggle in concrete and medical supplies, wheat flour, rice, and fresh veggies. What do you want to bet Iran isn't supplying any of these things? The Palestinians are just a pawn to Iran as well.
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They likely do and so do people from all over. In underground tunnels and whatnot.
 
I heard that the current Iranian leadership stated publicly that the state of Israel does not have a right to exist. Once the Iranians get nuclear weapon technology, it is feared that they will launch against Israel. We should engage Iran if Israel decides to attack Iran. However, I do not think it would be wise for The United States to engage first. This is our ally's problem, so they should be the ones to make the initial engagement.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
SHHHH!!!!

Some people are so attached to the matrix they will even fight to defend it.
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Some maybe, but not EagleAye I think. From my experience he is a pretty level headed guy.
 
EagleAye said:
I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on this. If the US pulls military support for Israel, Iran would continue, and probably strengthen, their support for Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran's proxy war against Israel is conducted more to cement their position (in Arab eyes) as the regional power in the ME, than anything else. It wouldn't surprise me if Iran has no deeply felt disagreement with Israel. Jews are once again a mere pawn in someone's play for power.

I don't think Iran is supporting the Palestinians out of Muslim brotherhood or altruism. I think they're supporting Hamas because they're a convenient tool to fight Israel with. If they really wanted to help the Palestinians, they'd smuggle in concrete and medical supplies, wheat flour, rice, and fresh veggies. What do you want to bet Iran isn't supplying any of these things? The Palestinians are just a pawn to Iran as well.
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I will agree to disagree. If the Israel were to agree to disarm their nuclear stockpile and withdraw to the boundaries of growth that the previously agreed to, and we agreed to remove our military forces from the Middle East, Iran no longer has an incentive to build an equivalent nuclear force.

If I were in their position surrounded by Israel and 45 US bases and subs all with nuclear capability, I would be trying my best to create a nuclear capacity for defense.
 
The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting today, February 23, 2012, that:

"The deputy head of Iran's armed forces, Mohammed Hejazi, said: ''We are no longer willing to wait for enemy action to be launched against us. Our strategy now is that if we feel our enemies want to endanger Iran's national interests, and want to decide to do that, we will act without waiting for their actions … We enjoy the ability to show them all types of confrontation in case of a foolish act by the Zionist regime.''


and that:

"The apparent threat came as international nuclear inspectors declared their latest mission to Iran a failure after Tehran blocked access to a military site south-east of the capital. The International Atomic Energy Agency team had been locked in two days of discussions on the possible military dimensions of the country's nuclear program, and had unsuccessfully requested access to the site at Parchin."


Military threatens pre-emptive strike against enemies
 
johnny_rebson said:
Don't you understand we need to fight for Israel?

They are our only ally in the region.
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What about Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and now Iraq, they're not allies?
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060217341 said:
The issue is that Iran is a threat to the USA because they have been killing US servicemen for years, not who is supplying whom with arms.
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Maybe Obama should start wheeling and dealing and selling them arms like Reagan did.
 
Well let's see, they've got Iraq on one border ... a country that was recently invaded by the U.S. They've got Afghanistan on another border ... a country that was recently invaded by the U.S. They've got Pakistan on another border ... an unstable country with a stable of nukes. And they've got Israel close by, which probably has a 100 nukes pointed at them. I can't imagine why they would want to have nukes.
 
AdamT said:
Well let's see, ................ I can't imagine why they would want to have nukes.
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You talking about the Iranian Regime? That they don't want nukes? Is that what you talking about?
 
Catawba said:
I will agree to disagree. If the Israel were to agree to disarm their nuclear stockpile and withdraw to the boundaries of growth that the previously agreed to, and we agreed to remove our military forces from the Middle East, Iran no longer has an incentive to build an equivalent nuclear force.

If I were in their position surrounded by Israel and 45 US bases and subs all with nuclear capability, I would be trying my best to create a nuclear capacity for defense.
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I very strongly disagree with this. If all of the actions above fell into place what incentive would Iran have to stop developing nuclear weapons? Iran wants to become a regional power. If you give them all of those concessions you are basically handing it to them on a silver platter. It is rather naive in my opinion to think Iran will just give up on those ambitions, especially if we were to practiacly give away all of our bargaining power as you suggest.
 
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Mya said:
You talking about the Iranian Regime? That they don't want nukes? Is that what you talking about?
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.... No ....
 
Mya said:
who do you mean then?
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I thought it was pretty self explanatory. While folks like to describe Iran as a nation of wild-eyed maniacs, it is in fact perfectly rational for them to want to develop nukes for self defense.
 
AdamT said:
I thought it was pretty self explanatory. While folks like to describe Iran as a nation of wild-eyed maniacs, it is in fact perfectly rational for them to want to develop nukes for self defense.
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Which is why we need to provide strong incentives in the other directions. We need to let Iran know that if they continue to pursue nukes the international community is going to shun them. We need to cripple their economy, continue to pressure them, and display our power and influence over the region. Simply conceding to Iran as some suggest will do nothing to stop Iran from pursuing nukes and will greatly shift the power in their favor, that should be obvious.
 
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