• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Chris Christie set to veto gay marriage bill

Redress said:
So you agree there are many means of transmission other than anal sex among gay men. Thanks, you are correct. In fact, being gay is not an actual risk factor. Further, one of the most effective ways to decrease AIDS is to encourage monogamy by such things as...marriage.
Click to expand...

Oh, now you've done it.
 
winston53660 said:
So when you said this:



You were blatantly wrong you now admit.
Click to expand...

Nope not at all, as I said AIDS was passed in the eighties by drug users but the most prevalent way was thru gay sex and you know that.
 
Navy Pride said:
Nope not at all, as I said AIDS was passed in the eighties by drug users but the most prevalent way was thru gay sex and you know that.
Click to expand...

What does AIDs have to do with same sex marriage?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, completely factual. Any post that implies, infers, or states that homosexuality is a mental disorder is reflective of the ignorance of the poster. Any post that implies, infers, or states that children do better with heterosexuals than homosexuals is reflective of the ignorance of the poster. Please educate yourself on these issues. Perhaps THEN your post might have some validity to be taken seriously.
Click to expand...

Fact: Human sexuality is directly related to and comes from the species level instinct to procreate and continue the species. That need for the species to continue and procreation being the only method to do so is the core of sexual desire and needs in humans.

Fact: Homosexual conduct does not lead to procreation. If sexual desires, as stated above, derive from an instinct to continue the species through procreation and Homosexuality does not does not lead to the possibility of procreation, then Homosexuality is a deviation from the normal sexual instinct.

Any deviation from the normal conduct instilled by an instinct as opposed to one instilled by the enviroment at the species level, not necessarily the tribal or persnal level, is a mental disorder. Since homosexuality is a deviation of the species survival instinct to procreate and acts contrary to that instinct, then it is obviously then a mental disorder. Homosexuality denies the species as a whole any advantages or useful mutations that would normally be gained and passed on thus negatively impacting the evolution and genetic advancements of the species as a whole. Also, if practiced and adopted as normal by a large enough segment of the species, then the species would also start failing because it did not have enough children to continue and grow. Since it has a negative survival impact at the species level, then it is very much an aberration and since it is in the mind, it is a mental disorder.

As to the impact of being raised by homsexual couples, that totally depends on the homosexual couple, but any law cannot take in the vast amount of deviations and special cases when it is written and must thus be written based upon common and worse case factors.

Worse case scenerio, as was in the news a short time ago, the courts were trying to determine if an Adolescent should have the right to undergo a sex change. In that particular case, a male child raised by a Lesbian couple was the one seeking the change. Considering the common man hating attitudes displayed by a large number of lesbians, it is really not that hard for some to see why an adelescent male raised in such an eviroment might think that being male is evil and wrong and therefore hate his sex. The fact that this arose is not suprising, the fact that it does not arise on a very frequent basis is what is suprising. A developing child who is male, raised in an household of two women who continuously dsiparage males can only lead to the child believing mommy hates men who are also male and I am male, so mommy must hate me and because I don't want mommy to hate me, I shouldn't be male.

There may be studies I have not seen that actually chart self-loathing, depression, suicide amongst children raised by a homosexual couple. It would indeed be interesting how the rates amoungst children raised by a homosexual couple of the opposite sex compare to normal society. But, just like Clinton killed a program to determine the use of illegally obtained guns vs legally obtained ones (he was anti-gun, so anthing that might potentially show that crimanals illegally obtain guns at any significant level would undermine his political stance), such a government sponsored study is not likely to happen when one of the two factions in our government spends so much time, effort and money trying to prove homosexuality is normal. The potential risk to their political stance is too great and of course getting the necessary data voluntarily in any significant amount is almost impossible as the vast majority of those children are now also working towards proving the normallacy of homosexuality.
 
Last edited:
Jredbaron96 said:
Better than brigning lies and bigotry.
Click to expand...

Here we go with the inasulting again. I guess when it comes to the left that will never change when they are losing the debate.

Oh and use your spell checker......thanks
 
Last edited:
DVSentinel said:
Fact: Human sexuality is directly related to and comes from the species level instinct to procreate and continue the species. That need for the species to continue and procreation being the only method to do so is the core of sexual desire and needs in humans.

Fact: Homosexual conduct does not lead to procreation. If sexual desires, as stated above, derive from an instinct to continue the species through procreation and Homosexuality does not does not lead to the possibility of procreation, then Homosexuality is a deviation from the normal sexual instinct.
Click to expand...

Problem 1: homosexual activity is not the same thing as homosexuality. Homosexuals can and do engage in heterosexual activity, to the point where 1/3 of all lesbians and 1/4 of gay men have children.

Any deviation from the normal conduct instilled by an instinct as opposed to one instilled by the enviroment at the species level, not necessarily the tribal or persnal level, is a mental disorder. Since homosexuality is a deviation of the species survival instinct to procreate and acts contrary to that instinct, then it is obviously then a mental disorder. Homosexuality denies the species as a whole any advantages or useful mutations that would normally be gained and passed on thus negatively impacting the evolution and genetic advancements of the species as a whole. Also, if practiced and adopted as normal by a large enough segment of the species, then the species would also start failing because it did not have enough children to continue and grow. Since it has a negative survival impact at the species level, then it is very much an aberration and since it is in the mind, it is a mental disorder.

As to the impact of being raised by homsexual couples, that totally depends on the homosexual couple, but any law cannot take in the vast amount of deviations and special cases when it is written and must thus be written based upon common and worse case factors.
Click to expand...

Problem 2: Your definition of mental disorder is inaccurate as the term is used by professionals. For something to be a mental disorder it has to cause "distress or disability". Therefore, by the acepted usage of the term mental disorder, homosexuality is not one.

Problem 3: Species do not have a survival instinct. Individuals do.

Problem 4: Evolution can and does account for the possibility of homosexuality as a survival trait for genes.



Worse case scenerio, as was in the news a short time ago, the courts were trying to determine if an Adolescent should have the right to undergo a sex change. In that particular case, a male child raised by a Lesbian couple was the one seeking the change. Considering the common man hating attitudes displayed by a large number of lesbians, it is really not that hard for some to see why an adelescent male raised in such an eviroment might think that being male is evil and wrong and therefore hate his sex. The fact that this arose is not suprising, the fact that it does not arise on a very frequent basis is what is suprising. A developing child who is male, raised in an household of two women who continuously dsiparage males can only lead to the child believing mommy hates men who are also male and I am male, so mommy must hate me and because I don't want mommy to hate me, I shouldn't be male.
Click to expand...

Problem 5: You have no ****ing clue what attitudes most lesbians have. None. You are painfully ****ing ignorant on the topic.

There may be studies I have not seen that actually chart self-loathing, depression, suicide amongst children raised by a homosexual couple. It would indeed be interesting how the rates amoungst children raised by a homosexual couple of the opposite sex compare to normal society. But, just like Clinton killed a program to determine the use of illegally obtained guns vs legally obtained ones (he was anti-gun, so anthing that might potentially show that crimanals illegally obtain guns at any significant level would undermine his political stance), such a government sponsored study is not likely to happen when one of the two factions in our government spends so much time, effort and money trying to prove homosexuality is normal. The potential risk to their political stance is too great and of course getting the necessary data voluntarily in any significant amount is almost impossible as the vast majority of those children are now also working towards proving the normallacy of homosexuality.
Click to expand...

Problem 6: Many studies have been done on the outcome of children raised by gays. Those studies tell us that children raised by gays do just as well as children who are not raised by gays. More work needs to be done on the subject, and is being done.
 
Well this topic largely diverted, it is obese with off topic posts......:pimpdaddy:
 
Navy Pride said:
It just bugs me when a guy brings nothing to the table and suck up to a moderator.........I probably should not have responded to him
Click to expand...

You probably should have responded to my counterpoint which he quoted but you ran away from.
 
roguenuke said:
First, it doesn't make two bits of difference what marriage was in the past. Marriage was many things in the past, and it was certainly not always about procreation. The main thing marriage has always been about is family ties. In some places, it was even ok for parents to marry two deceased children to each other just so they could make the legal bond between their families.

Family ties is the basis for marriage, everything else, including procreation, is extra.

And same sex marriage is not that recent of a phenomenon. Some people just believe it is. There have been several cases in recorded history where same sex marriages were legal. And much of history wasn't actually recorded, so God only knows how many more cases there were.

Reality is we live in the here and now, when we do have tests to determine if people can procreate individually or with each other. Women live decades past menopause and we know that women past menopause cannot procreate without help.

Also, you forgot to address the fact that 5 states will not allow certain couples to legally marry if they can procreate. That alone means that at least those states and the federal government do not consider procreation an important aspect in legal marriage (the federal government is included because all those marriages are legally recognized by the federal government).

Plus, we have studies (because we study everything) that say that marriage is good for society in ways far greater than procreation. Marriage encourages people to be more responsible. Marriage means that society has someone else to hold responsible for important end-of-life decisions and the financial responsibilities that go with those decisions.
Click to expand...

What societies are you refering to?

Yes, I failed to address those 5 states because I have no knowledge of what 5 states or what laws you are referring to. Since my time to use the computer on a daily basis is limited by health problems, I am not going to use that time to research a vague reference.
 
Navy Pride said:
CC it is spread that way now but it was not that way in the early eighties. The only people that were getting AIDS were gays with very few exceptions. That is why the closed the bath houses down in San Francisco...Anyone can catch it now but straight males are the least most not to get it because most straight males don't engage in anal sex.
Click to expand...

NP... anal sex without protection is DANGEROUS. It is irrelevant as to whether it is done by hetero or homosexuals. Sexual orientation does not matter. It is the BEHAVIOR that is relevant... as I have said hundreds of times.
 
Navy Pride said:
Because there have been many cases of Gays reverting to Straight I believe its a choice. There are many documented cases of Gays say they have changed, married and have had children and I am not the one to call them a liar.
Click to expand...

And there are plenty of cases of straights becoming gay... so I believe that heterosexuality is a choice. There are many documented cases of straights saying they have changed, and I am not the one to call them a liar.

See how it works?
 
DVSentinel said:
Homosexuality denies the species as a whole any advantages or useful mutations that would normally be gained and passed on thus negatively impacting the evolution and genetic advancements of the species as a whole.
Click to expand...

There isn't enough information to make that determination, as genetics are often extremely complex and combinations of many genes may be relevant to homosexuality. Further, there has been some evidence that it's the genetic makeup of the mother that's indicative of the sexuality of the offspring. If that's the case, then your argument is out the window. Point being: you don't have enough information to make that determination.

Further, it doesn't matter if homosexuality leads to further procreation. Individuals still have the same rights, regardless of what their reproductive capacity may be.

DVSentinel said:
Also, if practiced and adopted as normal by a large enough segment of the species, then the species would also start failing because it did not have enough children to continue and grow. Since it has a negative survival impact at the species level, then it is very much an aberration and since it is in the mind, it is a mental disorder.
Click to expand...

Did you just switch from saying it's genetic to saying it's a choice. If it's genetic, then no large enough segment is going to "adopt" it. If it's genetic, and a large enough segment "adopts" it, then there must be a procreative benefit to it, no? If not, then, if it's genetic, there won't be a large enough segment of the population "adopting" it, as it can only be "adopted" through genetic propagation (procreation).
 
DVSentinel said:
Fact: Human sexuality is directly related to and comes from the species level instinct to procreate and continue the species. That need for the species to continue and procreation being the only method to do so is the core of sexual desire and needs in humans.
Click to expand...

Fact: you are completely incorrect. Procreation is not the only reason for human sexuality.

Fact: Homosexual conduct does not lead to procreation. If sexual desires, as stated above, derive from an instinct to continue the species through procreation and Homosexuality does not does not lead to the possibility of procreation, then Homosexuality is a deviation from the normal sexual instinct.
Click to expand...

Fact: Since procreation is not the only reason for human sexuality, everything you said above is irrelevant.

Any deviation from the normal conduct instilled by an instinct as opposed to one instilled by the enviroment at the species level, not necessarily the tribal or persnal level, is a mental disorder. Since homosexuality is a deviation of the species survival instinct to procreate and acts contrary to that instinct, then it is obviously then a mental disorder. Homosexuality denies the species as a whole any advantages or useful mutations that would normally be gained and passed on thus negatively impacting the evolution and genetic advancements of the species as a whole. Also, if practiced and adopted as normal by a large enough segment of the species, then the species would also start failing because it did not have enough children to continue and grow. Since it has a negative survival impact at the species level, then it is very much an aberration and since it is in the mind, it is a mental disorder.
Click to expand...

Fact: All research has shown that homosexuality is not a mental disorder. There have been plenty of studies on this since the '50's. Your position is based on a false and uneducated premise. Read the study by Evelyn Hooker if you want to educate yourself on some facts. Also, your definition of what constitutes a mental disorder is completely invalid. Again... educate yourself on this stuff before you make stuff up.

As to the impact of being raised by homsexual couples, that totally depends on the homosexual couple, but any law cannot take in the vast amount of deviations and special cases when it is written and must thus be written based upon common and worse case factors.
Click to expand...

Then you must agree this must be the case for heterosexual couples, too, EQUALLY. If not, your position is hypocritical.

Worse case scenerio, as was in the news a short time ago, the courts were trying to determine if an Adolescent should have the right to undergo a sex change. In that particular case, a male child raised by a Lesbian couple was the one seeking the change. Considering the common man hating attitudes displayed by a large number of lesbians, it is really not that hard for some to see why an adelescent male raised in such an eviroment might think that being male is evil and wrong and therefore hate his sex. The fact that this arose is not suprising, the fact that it does not arise on a very frequent basis is what is suprising. A developing child who is male, raised in an household of two women who continuously dsiparage males can only lead to the child believing mommy hates men who are also male and I am male, so mommy must hate me and because I don't want mommy to hate me, I shouldn't be male.
Click to expand...

This is some of the most idiotic, inaccurate sterotyping I've seen. Nothing that you say above has any validity at all, other than to point out extreme cases. I can do the exact same thing with heterosexual couples. Therefore, there is nothing above that is worth responding to, since it is all invalid.

There may be studies I have not seen that actually chart self-loathing, depression, suicide amongst children raised by a homosexual couple. It would indeed be interesting how the rates amoungst children raised by a homosexual couple of the opposite sex compare to normal society. But, just like Clinton killed a program to determine the use of illegally obtained guns vs legally obtained ones (he was anti-gun, so anthing that might potentially show that crimanals illegally obtain guns at any significant level would undermine his political stance), such a government sponsored study is not likely to happen when one of the two factions in our government spends so much time, effort and money trying to prove homosexuality is normal. The potential risk to their political stance is too great and of course getting the necessary data voluntarily in any significant amount is almost impossible as the vast majority of those children are now also working towards proving the normallacy of homosexuality.
Click to expand...

You have shown that you have zero knowledge on this topic. Just your bigotry. I have posted more than a dozen studies that explored outcomes of children raised by homosexual couples. All showed that the outcomes were IDENTICAL to those of children raised by heterosexual couples. You have absolutely ZERO to based your assertions on. I have facts.

Since homosexuality has been shown to not be abnormal in any sense other than statistics, and your original premises, both of that, of sexuality only being a reaction to procreation, and of children not doing well being reared from homosexual couples, have ALL been shown to be false and invalid, I would suggest that you educate yourself on the topic so that you do not continue to post inaccurate information.
 
Last edited:
CaptainCourtesy said:
The sexual orientation of the people who spread AIDS is IRRELEVANT to it's spread.
Click to expand...
Nothing could be further from the truth. Men who have sex with men are more likely to get the disease from "dangerous" sexual behavior; they are more likely to spread the disease.

Much, much more likely.
 
Taylor said:
Nothing could be further from the truth. Men who have sex with men are more likely to get the disease from "dangerous" sexual behavior; they are more likely to spread the disease.

Much, much more likely.
Click to expand...

No, people who engage in dangerous sexual behavior are more likely to get, and spread the disease, the sexual orientation, and gender of the person is irrelevant.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
It's polled to pass, Christie is on record saying he believes it would pass, I think he's finding a way to reconcile his position with the peoples will. It's funny this same legislature I don't believe brought it up under the last few democrat Governor, why this one, why now? I see your point, but do not think there is much to worry about here, if one of the most liberal states in the union, if not the most liberal can't pass it under a popular referendum, you have bigger issues to worry about than Christie.
Click to expand...

Right, it probably would pass, and Christie knows it probably would pass, and he's supposed to represent the people of his state, but he's going to veto it to cover his exceedingly hard to cover ass in the next Republican primary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom