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Priest allegedly told rape victim: ‘This is what God’s love feels like’

Peter Grimm said:
Another smear attempt. Yawn.
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As if the catholic church needed anything else to make it look like the criminal, terrorist, self serving institution that it is. The historical membership of the HCCs clergy is a cross between NAMBLA, Al Qaeda and your local old folks home.
 
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Let's try another comparison. How about members of the Democrat Party (which has a central authority unlike "liberals" or the "OWS") were involved in sexual abuse scandals across the nation and high ranking members of the party covered up or bribed victims into not publicising the matter. Not necessarily Obama or Pelosi or all democrats, but high ranking members. Over the course of a couple of decades, the extent of the scandal only gets larger and larger. Colluding with sympathetic law enforcement, little movement to respond to the problem by the hierarchy. You'd bet your bottom dollar that the Democratic Party would be criticised as a whole, people would ask why the hell you vote for them, people would wonder why you don't vote for someone else who has similar beliefs.

Except the Vatican is a worldwide political institution, making it far more rehensible than the national level hypothetical outlined above.
 
You guys know why people hate the Catholic Church? The Church points out all their blemishes and sins. Christian morality is perfection, but that perfection is unattainable by any human being.

People hate the Church because they don't like feeling they can't live up to its judgements. They don't like feeling judged.

That's the source of the raw emotion directed at the Catholic Church.

My reaction to that? Cry me a river. Suck it up. You're not perfect.

Homosexuality is a sin. Abortion is a sin. Contraception is a sin. People sin in all sorts of ways. The modern world wants to give you a hug and tell you you're OK just the way you are.

The fact is, you need Jesus' forgiveness, because no person is without sin. You're not fine the way you are. You're fine by the grace of God.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You guys know why people hate the Catholic Church? The Church points out all their blemishes and sins. Christian morality is perfection, but that perfection is unattainable by any human being.
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Haha, forgive me if I don't want to be part of a homophobic, xenophobic, racist organization that didn't support slavery but didn't mind the perks it brought.

People hate the Church because they don't like feeling they can't live up to its judgements. They don't like feeling judged.
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Correction: I don't like being judged.

That's the source of the raw emotion directed at the Catholic Church.
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no-meme.jpg


My reaction to that? Cry me a river. Suck it up. You're not perfect.
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Still better than the catholic church.

Homosexuality is a sin. Abortion is a sin. Contraception is a sin. People sin in all sorts of ways. The modern world wants to give you a hug and tell you you're OK just the way you are.
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It's cute that you don't mention pedophilia is a sin. ;) I wonder why?

The fact is, you need Jesus' forgiveness, because no person is without sin. You're not fine the way you are. You're fine by the grace of God.
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37423L1f.jpg
 
Peter Grimm said:
People hate the Church because they don't like feeling they can't live up to its judgements. They don't like feeling judged.
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The RC Church certainly doesn't set an example when it comes to accepting judgment.
 
It's clear that you "catholic bashers" want to feel better about your own immoral lives, and that's why you bash. If the Church sins.... then you're not so bad comparatively. You really hate being judged. How sad for you. It's a natural emotion. The only step you're missing is asking Christ's forgiveness for your sins.

By the way, you use the word "cute" a lot... are you homosexual?
 
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Ben K. said:
The RC Church certainly doesn't set an example when it comes to accepting judgment.
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If you can convince yourself that the Church is just as sinful as you are, then you don't need to feel the discomfort of being judged by the Church's morality.

I get how it works.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's clear that you "catholic bashers" want to feel better about your own immoral lives,
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Been married to a Catholic for nearly a decade, only slept with that one person for my entire adult life. :shrug:

and that's why you do it. If the Church sins.... then you're not so bad comparatively.
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No. If the church sins, it's a hypocrite. I remain nonhypocritical because I don't judge others based on moral code made up by stinky jewish men who liked to get it on with teenage girls.

You really hate being judged.
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By people who I don't know? Obviously. The judgements of my family come before those of a bunch of old dirty men.

How sad for you.
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That I don't care? Yo, whatevs.

It's a natural emotion. The only step you're missing is asking Christ's forgiveness for your sins.
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This is what Jesus thinks of your post:

Holy-Facepalm.jpg
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's clear that you "catholic bashers" want to feel better about your own immoral lives, and that's why you do it. If the Church sins.... then you're not so bad comparatively. You really hate being judged. How sad for you. It's a natural emotion. The only step you're missing is asking Christ's forgiveness for your sins.
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Y'know the Holy See of the church you currently follow is only free of having the highest concentration of prostitutes in Europe (amongst countless other social abuses) because of people criticising the church. Were Martin Luther et al acting under the same guilt complex?
 
Peter Grimm said:
If you can convince yourself that the Church is just as sinful as you are, then you don't need to feel the discomfort of being judged by the Church's morality.

I get how it works.
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Do you believe the Church is sinful?
 
Haha, forgive me if I don't want to be part of a homophobic, xenophobic, racist organization that didn't support slavery but didn't mind the perks it brought.
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No, but your fine hating people based on their beliefs which puts you in the same catagory as racists, and homophobics. Enjoy the company hypocrite.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I think he was referring to the fact that some people have chosen to condemn all Catholics not just those involved in pedophilia and the cover up. It's pretty ignorant to condemn all Catholics for the actions of certain Catholic leaders.

Also, I'm not sure what Paterno has to do with this. People of all denominations or none at all do horrible things. Whatever link you're trying to draw to his Catholicism is just ignorant and a symptom of illogical intolerance.
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I doubt anyone is blaming "All" Catholics for the issues...but we are blaming the Church they belong to, as we should. While other religious institutions do indeed do terrible things, we are not discussing them right now, and I have not seen any other church with the level of problems we see in the Catholic Church.

But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (Sex), and expect things to go well.
 
tecoyah said:
I doubt anyone is blaming "All" Catholics for the issues...but we are blaming the Church they belong to, as we should. While other religious institutions do indeed do terrible things, we are not discussing them right now, and I have not seen any other church with the level of problems we see in the Catholic Church.

But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (Sex), and expect things to go well.
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If you changed your sentence to, "But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (spirituality), and expect things to go well", would you still make it?
 
muciti said:
No, but your fine hating people based on their beliefs which puts you in the same catagory as racists, and homophobics. Enjoy the company hypocrite.
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Another straw man. Show me where I said I hate catholics? Kthanxbai.
 
Blue_State said:
If you changed your sentence to, "But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (spirituality), and expect things to go well", would you still make it?
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No, as that would be a falsehood in my mind. Please do not attempt to compare Faith with Sex...this will do very little to increase your credibility on reality.
 
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tecoyah said:
I doubt anyone is blaming "All" Catholics for the issues...but we are blaming the Church they belong to, as we should. While other religious institutions do indeed do terrible things, we are not discussing them right now, and I have not seen any other church with the level of problems we see in the Catholic Church.
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I didn't say anyone was blaming all Catholics. I said some people were condemning all Catholics for the pedophilia scandal and if you read certain posts, you'll see that I'm right. You'll see where one poster even called all Catholics supporters of the scandal simply because they are Catholic. That is unjust intolerance and ignorance. I also said that condemning the Church was understandable - just not regular Catholics.

But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (Sex), and expect things to go well.
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Another ignorant statement. There is NO evidence that Catholicism has any more pedophilia than the general population. Moreover, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that celibacy has anything to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church or anywhere has NOTHING to do with the celibacy vow. Married men are just as, if not more, likely to sexually abuse children as celibate men.
 
tecoyah said:
No, as that would be a falsehood in my mind. Please do not attempt to compare Faith with Sex...this will do very little to increase your credibility on reality.
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In your mind you put sex above spirituality. All feelings. You feel men can't be trusted without sex, they feel men can't be trusted without spirituality.

Why shouldn't someone compare faith with sex? Who are you too judge others values?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I didn't say anyone was blaming all Catholics. I said some people were condemning all Catholics for the pedophilia scandal and if you read certain posts, you'll see that I'm right. You'll see where one poster even called all Catholics supporters of the scandal simply because they are Catholic. That is unjust intolerance and ignorance. I also said that condemning the Church was understandable - just not regular Catholics.


Another ignorant statement. There is NO evidence that Catholicism has any more pedophilia than the general population. Moreover, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that celibacy has anything to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church or anywhere has NOTHING to do with the celibacy vow. Married men are just as, if not more, likely to sexually abuse children as celibate men.
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Ignorant, is a relatively strong term to bandy about, thus I will refrain from such things in favor of supplying Data:
"The evidence is that a higher percentage of Catholic priests and male Religious molest
children more than other ministers of religion. Clergy of all denominations do not molest
equally. In her foreword, the lawyer, Sylvia Demerest cites a 1995 survey of 19,000
treating professionals, funded by the National Centre on Child Abuse and Neglect. The
study found that in the US, 94% of abuses by religious authorities were sexual in nature.
Over half of these cases (54%) involved perpetrators and victims who were Catholic, even
though Roman Catholics comprise only 25% of the United States population. The minor
victims of priest abuse are overwhelmingly boys and teenagers, (80­90%), which is
contrary to the pattern of abuse in the general population."

Studies on Priests Molesting Children

I suppose I may simply be ignorant, and am adding 2+2 to get 5...but the celibacy seems more likely than anything else, including this:
"A lengthy, in-depth report on the child sexual abuse scandals of the Catholic Church—a report paid for primarily by the Catholic Church—has found that it wasn't the whole "celibate, sexually frustrated men in close proximity to vulnerable children" thing that caused all the molestation. It was hippies."

Catholic Church Blames Hippies, Not Celibacy, for All That Kid-Molesting
 
Blue_State said:
In your mind you put sex above spirituality. All feelings. You feel men can't be trusted without sex, they feel men can't be trusted without spirituality.

I do not remember placing one above the other, but instead pointed out that sex is a very powerful aspect of human nature. That you somehow feel you know my mind so well, is perhaps more indicative of your own mind, than mine. I also do not see where I claimed to have trust issues...but I am sure you will read into my comments whatever suits you best.

Why shouldn't someone compare faith with sex? Who are you too judge others values?
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By taking the apples and oranges approach, the entire debate (and issue) are sidestepped. Also, as I have quite a bit of experience in both regards...I will state for the record they are not similar in any way.

Though it has been said that great sex can be a religious experience...heh.
 
I can't quote you acurately because you inserted text in my quote...anyways,

I believe you did place them on different planes with the comment:
No, as that would be a falsehood in my mind. Please do not attempt to compare Faith with Sex...this will do very little to increase your credibility on reality.
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You go on to say that you have experience in both, who doesn't? You can't make this call for other people. That is my point. People are individuals, and they will place values on the objects and emothions that mean something to them.
tecoyah said:
By taking the apples and oranges approach, the entire debate (and issue) are sidestepped. Also, as I have quite a bit of experience in both regards...I will state for the record they are not similar in any way.

Though it has been said that great sex can be a religious experience...heh.
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My comment was:
But seriously, you CANNOT tell a thousand men that they need to ignore one of the most fundamental and driving forces in humanity (spirituality), and expect things to go well", would you still make it?
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That is the position of religious minds. They believe that if people are missing out in spirituality things shouldn't be expected to well. You feel that without sex things shouldn't be able to go well. I ask again, who are you to judge the other's values?
 
Blue_State said:
...snip...
I ask again, who are you to judge the other's values?
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I am less judging, than evaluating and forming opinion...and yes, it is simply MY opinion. I am not commenting on your values, but instead (as indicated by the data I have posted) expressing said opinion based on information I have noted. I will state however, that your claims of my ignorance, trust issues, judgement...etc...can easily be seen as a form of the very thing you accuse my of.

To Clarify:

It has been documented that sexual abuse occurs in above average numbers within the Catholic Church.
It has been documented that the Catholic Church was "Less than forthright" in its dealings with the issue.
It has been documented that Catholic Priests take a vow of Celibacy.

It is understood that Humans enjoy sex.
It is understood that deprivation of a joy leads to unhappiness.
It is understood that Unhappiness often leads to frustration and illogical action.

To accept these things as reality does not require a judgement...Taken in the context of this situation however...one cannot be blamed for doing so, and claiming hypocracy.
 
tecoyah said:
I am less judging, than evaluating and forming opinion...and yes, it is simply MY opinion. I am not commenting on your values, but instead (as indicated by the data I have posted) expressing said opinion based on information I have noted. I will state however, that your claims of my ignorance, trust issues, judgement...etc...can easily be seen as a form of the very thing you accuse my of.

To Clarify:

It has been documented that sexual abuse occurs in above average numbers within the Catholic Church.
It has been documented that the Catholic Church was "Less than forthright" in its dealings with the issue.
It has been documented that Catholic Priests take a vow of Celibacy.

It is understood that Humans enjoy sex.
It is understood that deprivation of a joy leads to unhappiness.
It is understood that Unhappiness often leads to frustration and illogical action.

To accept these things as reality does not require a judgement...Taken in the context of this situation however...one cannot be blamed for doing so, and claiming hypocracy.
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Amazing you read it that way. I never insinuated that you were ignorant, had trust issues, or bad judgment.

Your argument is based solely on sex and sex drive. My point is simple. Just because someone takes a vow of Celibacy, doesn't mean there is going to be a problem as you initially indicated.
 
Blue_State said:
Amazing you read it that way. I never insinuated that you were ignorant, had trust issues, or bad judgment.

Your argument is based solely on sex and sex drive. My point is simple. Just because someone takes a vow of Celibacy, doesn't mean there is going to be a problem as you initially indicated.
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I did not indicate such a thing...rather I indicated that the Odds were increased in reply to your claim they were not, or at least that Catholic Clergy had no higher an instance than anyone else. Perhaps I am reading to much into what you type...but when someone types you are making "Another Ignorant Statement, Do not Trust Men to control themselves, and asks you what gives you the right to judge....they may be implying you are ignorant, have trust issues, and are judging.

I suppose I could be wrong
 
tecoyah said:
I did not indicate such a thing...rather I indicated that the Odds were increased in reply to your claim they were not, or at least that Catholic Clergy had no higher an instance than anyone else. Perhaps I am reading to much into what you type...but when someone types you are making "Another Ignorant Statement, Do not Trust Men to control themselves, and asks you what gives you the right to judge....they may be implying you are ignorant, have trust issues, and are judging.

I suppose I could be wrong
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You aren't catching my point. So, I am not going any further.
 
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