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Catholics hear anti-Obama letter in church

hazlnut said:
This is why we have separation of church and state.

Not to protect the church from big gov, the opposite.

You've got congregations all around the country listening to a person of authority, their parish priest, lecture them on politics and sexuality.

Just like in Europe, the pope tries to be the head of all the countries, the supreme authority. And Henry VIII said no. Granted, it was all about the Nookie.
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That is like saying that the Constitution guarantees us protection FROM religion....Totally skewed.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Actually, it is the other way around in this case....The administration is imposing upon the Church, not the other way around...
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not any longer. Obama changed the law so that the Church doesn't have to pay for any contraception. the HMO now pays for it.
 
Thunder said:
you have every right to believe in whatever you like.

however, you have NO right to impose it on others, especially your employees.
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Employees have the right to work for whomever they want. If your benefits don't include free contriception, time to look for another job somewhere else, or accept the program of your employer. Maybe time to start your own business.
 
Thunder said:
I am troubled by the idea that we should let religious doctrine trump civil law.
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Then you're troubled by a regrettable and avoidable misunderstanding of the issues.
 
j-mac said:
The law of God trumps any law man devises.
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I'd agree with that. As long as we agree that every one is entitled to their own understanding of a higher power. The laws of nature certainly trump civil authority. For example, homosexuality is as natural as an apple. But man still regulates against it.

But the bible is not the best source for God's law. In fact, the bible is often misunderstood and misused for selfish motives.

The bible is merely a history of early-Western Civilization, the culture and the beliefs. Natural law is something we can never fully understand, but we should strive to do our best.

Contraception certainly has nothing do do with interfering with natural law, otherwise withdrawing prematurely and ejaculating outside the vagina would be a sin. Lust is part of the human condition. Love begins with a sexual attraction, on some level. So, not making children when you're not ready to raise them would very much be part of natural law and the order of things. A higher power would always want us to make selfless decisions.
 
what if a Catholic hospital didn't want to pay for any healthcare for a child that had complications due to his Jewish cicumcision procedure.

should they be allowed to?
 
Thunder said:
however, you have NO right to impose it on others, especially your employees.
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Oh, so you're one of those who believes that it's not enough to not interfere with employee's personal choices, no, they actually have to pay for something they find morally disturbing, else they're "imposing."

Make no mistake: you're saying "not paying for it" = "actively forcing them to live a certain way."

This is, of course, idiocy on stilts.
 
Thunder said:
you're clearly projecting.
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Ah, the playground-honored "I know you are, but what am I?" defense. I think the girls need another person for double-dutch.
 
hazlnut said:
I'd agree with that. As long as we agree that every one is entitled to their own understanding of a higher power. The laws of nature certainly trump civil authority. For example, homosexuality is as natural as an apple. But man still regulates against it.

But the bible is not the best source for God's law. In fact, the bible is often misunderstood and misused for selfish motives.

The bible is merely a history of early-Western Civilization, the culture and the beliefs. Natural law is something we can never fully understand, but we should strive to do our best.

Contraception certainly has nothing do do with interfering with natural law, otherwise withdrawing prematurely and ejaculating outside the vagina would be a sin. Lust is part of the human condition. Love begins with a sexual attraction, on some level. So, not making children when you're not ready to raise them would very much be part of natural law and the order of things. A higher power would always want us to make selfless decisions.
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I wouldn't say early Western Civilization.....
 
j-mac said:
Obama must be either insane, taking on a voting block that makes up some 28% of the electorate, or he is just conceeded enough to think that he can dictate to the Church.

What say you?
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I say we need the second amendment to protect government from church.

Look what happened in Europe when the pope got so powerful. He started calling all the shots, demanding tribute and obedience.

Sound familiar?
 
Blue_State said:
Who pays the HMO? Exactly. Don't bother replying, I know the answer.
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ah, so its not simply about forcing the institution to pay for contraceptives.

its about forcing the institution to have employees who want contraceptives.

what's next, demanding that they not pay for the insurance premiums of folks who get medical care for their child who has compications from their Jewish circumcision?
 
hazlnut said:
I say we need the second amendment to protect government from church.

Look what happened in Europe when the pope got so powerful. He started calling all the shots, demanding tribute and obedience.

Sound familiar?
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If the people vote for it, then that is the way of the world.

I am against it, but we have to maintain other's rights.

Furthermore, this is the first moderate arguement I have heard not turning America into Europe West.
 
Thunder said:
what if a Catholic hospital didn't want to pay for any healthcare for a child that had complications due to his Jewish cicumcision procedure.

should they be allowed to?
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Make a compelling argument for why they should be forced to. In a free society, the default mode is that the government has to justify itself, not the people. Freedom isn't what's "allowed." Everything is "allowed" unless there's a compelling reason for it not to be. So go for it.
 
I don't get it. The birth-control pill does NOT kill a fertilized egg. No "soul" is being snuffed.

so what's the big deal?
 
Harshaw said:
Make a compelling argument for why they should be forced to. In a free society, the default mode is that the government has to justify itself, not the people. Freedom isn't what's "allowed." Everything is "allowed" unless there's a compelling reason for it not to be. So go for it.
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so if a Christian works for a Jewish hospital, the hospital should be allowed to not pay healthcare for someone who eats pork?

or someone who kneels before a statue of a holy man?

you really want to take this country back to a time when religious discrimination was perfectly legal, huh?
 
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