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Catholics hear anti-Obama letter in church

Blue_State said:
Basically I am saying, if the church paricipates by in a profit center activity, then it needs to abide by the same rules as other profit centers in the public.
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I know what you are saying. I'm asking if you know whether this is ever the case? And if not, why even bring it up?
 
1Perry said:
I know what you are saying. I'm asking if you know whether this is ever the case? And if not, why even bring it up?
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I belive from some of the articles I have seen, here and on the net, is that the church has operations outside of its non-profit entities. I will see if I can find a list.
 
1Perry said:
I know what you are saying. I'm asking if you know whether this is ever the case? And if not, why even bring it up?
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I did a little more research. It seems to be a catch 22. Any organization needs insurance. Espcially colleges and hospitals. These colleges and hospitals are non-profit and under the church umbrella. By law, the health insurance company has to provide birth control coverage because of the new health care system. Because the hospital/college has to have insurance, they are now because of catch 22, required to have free birth control offered.
 
Blue_State said:
I did a little more research. It seems to be a catch 22. Any organization needs insurance. Espcially colleges and hospitals. These colleges and hospitals are non-profit and under the church umbrella. By law, the health insurance company has to provide birth control coverage because of the new health care system. Because the hospital/college has to have insurance, they are now because of catch 22, required to have free birth control offered.
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Exactly! Which is why the conference of Bishops reject this so called compromise. This was what liberals like Obama always do, and that is shell game the terminology rather than change the outcome.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Exactly! Which is why the conference of Bishops reject this so called compromise. This was what liberals like Obama always do, and that is shell game the terminology rather than change the outcome.


j-mac
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Wrong. Obama gave the Catholics what they wanted. They will no longer be required to offer free birth control. They oppose the compromise because they don't think that ANYONE should offer birth control, free or otherwise.

I would suggest that Catholic Church be given no federal aid whatsoever until such time it the acknowledges and apologizes for the holocaust of millions of AIDS and starvation-related deaths it is responsible for as a result of prohibiting contraception in AIDs and famine-plagued third world countries.
 
AdamT said:
Wrong. Obama gave the Catholics what they wanted. They will no longer be required to offer free birth control. They oppose the compromise because they don't think that ANYONE should offer birth control, free or otherwise.

I would suggest that Catholic Church be given no federal aid whatsoever until such time it the acknowledges and apologizes for the holocaust of millions of AIDS and starvation-related deaths it is responsible for as a result of prohibiting contraception in AIDs and famine-plagued third world countries.
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The insurance company that the hospital or university will still have to carry birth control. Which means Sue can go down the street and get Plan B if she wants. That is not what the church wants to provide because it goes against their beliefs.
 
AdamT said:
Wrong. Obama gave the Catholics what they wanted. They will no longer be required to offer free birth control.
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How laughable...Is the employer required to offer HC for it's employees? As a result they have to pay for that coverage. The argument was NEVER that the Church had to directly PAY for these things. Only the simplistic believed this. The argument was in providing something that covered this against the doctrine of the religion, and the administration dictating that they must provide that coverage. Instead, they only thing they did is rather than leave it so that the Church could offer a plan that excludes this, he just said that ALL insurance must offer it for free, thus NOT compromising, but rather boxing in....It is a cynical, snotty little move, and another lie on his part.

I would suggest that Catholic Church be given no federal aid whatsoever until such time it the acknowledges and apologizes for the holocaust of millions of AIDS and starvation-related deaths it is responsible for as a result of prohibiting contraception in AIDs and famine-plagued third world countries.
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I at that I would suggest that the Catholic Church close every hospital, every soup kitchen, claw back every social assistance program, and pull completely away from aiding a populace that the government now depends on to suplement their social network...You little heavy handed dictators have NOT A CLUE how much the Church helps out our poor.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
How laughable...Is the employer required to offer HC for it's employees? As a result they have to pay for that coverage. The argument was NEVER that the Church had to directly PAY for these things. Only the simplistic believed this. The argument was in providing something that covered this against the doctrine of the religion, and the administration dictating that they must provide that coverage. Instead, they only thing they did is rather than leave it so that the Church could offer a plan that excludes this, he just said that ALL insurance must offer it for free, thus NOT compromising, but rather boxing in....It is a cynical, snotty little move, and another lie on his part.

I at that I would suggest that the Catholic Church close every hospital, every soup kitchen, claw back every social assistance program, and pull completely away from aiding a populace that the government now depends on to suplement their social network...You little heavy handed dictators have NOT A CLUE how much the Church helps out our poor.


j-mac
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Great idea and one that will greatly accelerate the ongoing exodus of Catholics from the church. The Bishops are so out of touch with their flock as it is that the heartless ending of whatever good they still do would complete the total alienation of church members once and for all. Religion and politics don't mix, we are have a secular Govt.

-There is a major disconnect between the leadership of the Catholic Church and rank and file Catholic voters on this issue. We did an over sample of almost 400 Catholics and found that they support the benefit overall, 53-44, and oppose an exception for Catholic hospitals and universities, 53-45. The Bishops really are not speaking for Catholics as a whole on this issue.

-Republican agitating on this issue could cause themselves trouble at the polls this year. 40% of voters say Mitt Romney's stance makes them less likely to vote for him, while only 23% consider it a positive. With the Catholic oversample it's 46% less likely and 28% more likely. And Congressional Republicans are imperiling themselves as well. 58% of voters oppose them trying to take the benefit away, while only 33% are supportive.

Republicans will win this fall if they can convince voters that the economy stinks and it's Barack Obama's fault and putting them in power will fix the problem. If they want to make it about social issues and making it easy and affordable for women to access birth control, Democrats win.
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Our polling on the birth control issue - Public Policy Polling
 
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iguanaman said:
Great idea and one that will greatly accelerate the ongoing exodus of Catholics from the church. The Bishops are so out of touch with their flock as it is that the heartless ending of whatever good they still do would complete the total alienation of church members once and for all. Religion and politics don't mix, we are have a secular Govt.


Our polling on the birth control issue - Public Policy Polling
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I agree that the clergy is out of touch... What a shame........
 
sharon said:
I agree that the clergy is out of touch... What a shame........
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The Church is stuck with their early history power grab when they invented the Pope--since then a way out of touch old man is allowed to dictate policy.
 
Isn't a responsiblity of the people who participate in the church to change the church's views, not the government?
 
Blue_State said:
Isn't a responsiblity of the people who participate in the church to change the church's views, not the government?
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Sadly not in today's argument....The Catholic Church seems to need those who are not Catholic, or even believers in religion dictating doctrine for them...

j-mac
 
Blue_State said:
Isn't a responsiblity of the people who participate in the church to change the church's views, not the government?
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The church isn't a democracy.
 
j-mac said:
Obama must be either insane, taking on a voting block that makes up some 28% of the electorate, or he is just conceeded enough to think that he can dictate to the Church.

What say you?...
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I am troubled by the idea that we should let religious doctrine trump civil law.

what if the only job available in a town, is at the local catholic hospital.

we should just sit back and let that hospital deny contraceptives to their workers, because their Priest-God says so?
 
Thunder said:
I am troubled by the idea that we should let religious doctrine trump civil law.
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The law of God trumps any law man devises.

what if the only job available in a town, is at the local catholic hospital
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Then I would say that the town have more severe problems than causing you to buy a $5 pack of condoms. Maybe you should move.

we should just sit back and let that hospital deny contraceptives to their workers, because their Priest-God says so?
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You are not forced to work anywhere in this country. If you don't like the terms of your employment, then don't work there.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
The law of God trumps any law man devises....
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oh, so you support Sharia law?

I guess you feel we should allow polygamy, and stoning of folks who curse their parents, for the Bible allows it?

you support honor killings, as the Koran allows it?

we should allow folks to rape their daughters, if Hinduism allows it?
 
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This is why we have separation of church and state.

Not to protect the church from big gov, the opposite.

You've got congregations all around the country listening to a person of authority, their parish priest, lecture them on politics and sexuality.

Just like in Europe, the pope tries to be the head of all the countries, the supreme authority. And Henry VIII said no. Granted, it was all about the Nookie.
 
Thunder said:
oh, so you support Sharia law?
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Does Sharia law work inside the concepts of our society? Could they have Sharia law in America without violating the rights of other Americans?

That is the equivalent of saying do you support communism to someone fighting for democracy.

The Catholic Church has been a opperating entity in this country for years. Now there is a mandate that is going to directly impact their beliefs, and it doesn't have to be this way.
 
Why do we feel we have to impose this on a group of people who don't want it? We know better for them?
 
Thunder said:
oh, so you support Sharia law?

I guess you feel we should allow polygamy, and stoning of folks who curse their parents, for the Bible allows it?

you support honor killings, as the Koran allows it?

we should allow folks to rape their daughters, if Hinduism allows it?
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So, If I believe that man answers to a higher power, then automatically I must subscribe to the fringe extreme of all religions? That is a really deep seeded hate you have there for religion in general, and quite a skewed view of those who have spiritual guidence in their lives.


j-mac
 
Thunder said:
imposing Catholic law is no different than imposing Sharia law.
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Actually, it is the other way around in this case....The administration is imposing upon the Church, not the other way around.


j-mac
 
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